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Cycle box death judge gets it right for once



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 22nd 18, 07:31 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 4:06:44 PM UTC+1, Simon Jester wrote:

We have been told many, many times that cyclists never stop at red lights.
So even if the Law Abiding coach driver was driving at 35mph in a 30mph limit it proves the 12mph cyclist was undertaking the motor vehicle.


During his trial in August the court heard that:

QUOTE:
Jurors heard that Northcott told police he ****regularly**** (EMPHASIS MINE) disregarded the rules about the cycle stop box to 'stop himself being swamped by cyclists'.

Mr Sandhu said: 'The defendant began a left-hand turn and into the path that Karla Roman was on. He did not see her in the mirrors as he turned because he was not paying attention.

END QUOTE.

So it seems that the killer driver was a habitual law breaker and is now serving a long jail sentence as a result of his negligence.

As the judge told him:

*****"Motorists simply have to accept that (the box is for cyclists) and it is not open to them to decide when and where they may ignore that rule."***** EMPHASIS MINE.
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  #12  
Old September 22nd 18, 08:16 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_10_]
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Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On 22/09/2018 17:37, MrCheerful wrote:
On 22/09/2018 15:41, JNugent wrote:
On 22/09/2018 13:19, MrCheerful wrote:
On 22/09/2018 12:51, RJH wrote:
On 21/09/2018 21:11, JNugent wrote:
On 21/09/2018 20:52, wrote:
QUOTE:
Barry Northcott pulled into the zone which is designed to protect
cyclists at a traffic lights in Whitechapel High Street and failed
to spot Karla Norman.

Jailing him for 15 months this morning, Judge Christopher Kinch QC
said: "It may be frustrating to see cyclists - swarming or
otherwise - pulling in front at junctions.

"But the box is the device placed there to protect vulnerable
cyclists from the consequences of not being seen as traffic pulls
away.

*****"Motorists simply have to accept that, and it is not open to
them to decide when and where they may ignore that rule."*****
EMPHASIS MINE.

He was also banned from driving for five years and 30 weeks.

END QUOTE.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...arry-Northcott


The report is opaque (which isn't a surprise).

Did the coach driver pull up behind the stationary cyclist then
drive over her when the lights changed to green?

Did he just drive over her without stopping because the lights were
green as he approached?


I'd interpret as just ploughing into the cyclist on a red light.
Driving into the cycle area at a red light is pretty routine IME -
I'd guess the driver was in some sort of autopilot mode.



No, the coach was turning left when she went under the wheels.


I didn't spot that detail in the report (though "dragged under the
huge vehicle" does suggest a collision involving the side of the coach
during a turning movement).

Did you get it from another, better, report?


The daily star did not even get her name correct.
slightly better:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-driving.html


Thanks. That report sems to fit better with the feasible facts of the case.

No red light was involved, but I never thought it would be.
  #13  
Old September 23rd 18, 11:23 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

Road.cc highlights a very salient piece of CCTV evidence in its piece.

QUOTE:
"CCTV footage revealed that Northcott ***illegally*** (emphasis mine+) entered an advanced stop line – also known as a ‘bike box’ – at a junction. When interviewed by police, he admitted that he did this regularly to avoid being “swarmed by cyclists.” END QUOTE.

+ "Illegally" entering the ASL would, of course, mean that he was caught on CCTV driving into the box while the traffic light was at STOP or red as practically any other situation would be legal.

He even ADMITTED regularly driving into the ASLs illegally, in court under oath!

https://road.cc/content/news/248771-...ed-karla-roman
  #14  
Old September 23rd 18, 02:45 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Jester
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Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 11:23:38 AM UTC+1, wrote:
Road.cc highlights a very salient piece of CCTV evidence in its piece.

QUOTE:
"CCTV footage revealed that Northcott ***illegally*** (emphasis mine+) entered an advanced stop line – also known as a ‘bike box’ – at a junction. When interviewed by police, he admitted that he did this regularly to avoid being “swarmed by cyclists.” END QUOTE.

+ "Illegally" entering the ASL would, of course, mean that he was caught on CCTV driving into the box while the traffic light was at STOP or red as practically any other situation would be legal.

He even ADMITTED regularly driving into the ASLs illegally, in court under oath!

https://road.cc/content/news/248771-...ed-karla-roman


Maybe we should build special roads that cyclists cannot use. That way such drivers can stick to those roads if they do not want to be 'swarmed by cyclists'. We could call them Motorways.


  #15  
Old September 23rd 18, 04:33 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
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Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On 22/09/18 17:37, MrCheerful wrote:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-driving.html


"Barry Northcott, 40, caused fatal and 'catastrophic injuries' to Karla
Roman when he turned left into the 32-year-old in Whitechapel, east
London, after *failing to spot her in his mirrors*."

"Prosecutor Harpreet Sandhu told the trial that Ms Roman had been ahead
of Northcott and within view for some 16 seconds before the crash on
February 6 last year."

So the victim was there first. It can't be the only time a driver has
been at fault. This one can be kept in the archives for the next time
someone claims "it is because cyclists overtake on the left"
  #16  
Old September 23rd 18, 04:34 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
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Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On 23/09/18 11:23, wrote:
Road.cc highlights a very salient piece of CCTV evidence in its
piece.

https://road.cc/content/news/248771-...ed-karla-roman


"Northcott’s barrister, Harry Bentley, said the coach driver was
"desperately sorry" for Roman's death “and at times he has considered
ending his own life because of it.""

It's necessary to wonder how much his sentence was reduced by this
grovelling. (Compared to 18 months for Charlie Alliston for not
grovelling - and the court seeming to accept that it was the victim that
hadn't paid attention.)
  #17  
Old September 23rd 18, 04:44 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Jester
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Posts: 1,742
Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 11:23:38 AM UTC+1, wrote:
Road.cc highlights a very salient piece of CCTV evidence in its piece.

QUOTE:
"CCTV footage revealed that Northcott ***illegally*** (emphasis mine+) entered an advanced stop line – also known as a ‘bike box’ – at a junction. When interviewed by police, he admitted that he did this regularly to avoid being “swarmed by cyclists.” END QUOTE.

+ "Illegally" entering the ASL would, of course, mean that he was caught on CCTV driving into the box while the traffic light was at STOP or red as practically any other situation would be legal.

He even ADMITTED regularly driving into the ASLs illegally, in court under oath!

https://road.cc/content/news/248771-...ed-karla-roman


Motorists are not very bright.
There was a case where a Taxi driver admitted to swerving at a cyclist.
In his defence he said "I only meant to scare him".
Fortunately the jury recognised that deliberately driving a motor vehicle at a primary road user was an admission of guilt and found him guilty of Death by Dangerous Driving.
  #18  
Old September 23rd 18, 05:23 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_10_]
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Posts: 102
Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On 23/09/2018 16:34, TMS320 wrote:

On 23/09/18 11:23, wrote:
Road.cc highlights a very salient piece of CCTV evidence in its
piece.

https://road.cc/content/news/248771-...ed-karla-roman

"Northcott’s barrister, Harry Bentley, said the coach driver was
"desperately sorry" for Roman's death “and at times he has considered
ending his own life because of it.""

It's necessary to wonder how much his sentence was reduced by this
grovelling. (Compared to 18 months for Charlie Alliston for not
grovelling - and the court seeming to accept that it was the victim that
hadn't paid attention.)


Pleading guilty at the earliest opportunity (that is, once the charges
and evidence have been made available and the strength of the
prosecution case thereby known) and saving the Crown the expense of a
trial is always taken into account as a mitigating factor.

When did Alliston plead guilty?

  #19  
Old September 23rd 18, 05:23 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_10_]
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Posts: 102
Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On 23/09/2018 16:44, Simon Jester wrote:
On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 11:23:38 AM UTC+1, wrote:
Road.cc highlights a very salient piece of CCTV evidence in its piece.

QUOTE:
"CCTV footage revealed that Northcott ***illegally*** (emphasis mine+) entered an advanced stop line – also known as a ‘bike box’ – at a junction. When interviewed by police, he admitted that he did this regularly to avoid being “swarmed by cyclists.” END QUOTE.

+ "Illegally" entering the ASL would, of course, mean that he was caught on CCTV driving into the box while the traffic light was at STOP or red as practically any other situation would be legal.

He even ADMITTED regularly driving into the ASLs illegally, in court under oath!

https://road.cc/content/news/248771-...ed-karla-roman


Motorists are not very bright.
There was a case where a Taxi driver admitted to swerving at a cyclist.
In his defence he said "I only meant to scare him".
Fortunately the jury recognised that deliberately driving a motor vehicle at a primary road user was an admission of guilt and found him guilty of Death by Dangerous Driving.


You failed all your attempts at the driving test, then?
  #20  
Old September 23rd 18, 06:48 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mr Pounder Esquire
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Posts: 2,127
Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

JNugent wrote:
On 23/09/2018 16:44, Simon Jester wrote:
On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 11:23:38 AM UTC+1,
wrote:
Road.cc highlights a very salient piece of CCTV evidence in its
piece. QUOTE:
"CCTV footage revealed that Northcott ***illegally*** (emphasis
mine+) entered an advanced stop line - also known as a 'bike box' -
at a junction. When interviewed by police, he admitted that he did
this regularly to avoid being "swarmed by cyclists." END QUOTE. +
"Illegally" entering the ASL would, of course, mean that he was
caught on CCTV driving into the box while the traffic light was at
STOP or red as practically any other situation would be legal. He even
ADMITTED regularly driving into the ASLs illegally, in
court under oath!
https://road.cc/content/news/248771-...ed-karla-roman


Motorists are not very bright.
There was a case where a Taxi driver admitted to swerving at a
cyclist. In his defence he said "I only meant to scare him".
Fortunately the jury recognised that deliberately driving a motor
vehicle at a primary road user was an admission of guilt and found
him guilty of Death by Dangerous Driving.


You failed all your attempts at the driving test, then?



Jester is a well known pillock and is not worthy of a reply.


 




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