Cheap bright tail light

Phil W Lee schreef op 25-9-2014 22:45:
Joerg considered Wed, 24 Sep 2014
09:50:07 -0700 the perfect time to write:

wrote:
SLIDING BACK is more dirt motion than road grip.


It is about not going over the bars when you have to reach into the
front brake hard.


... With road contact
motion to side, inside best but go with the flow. Adding a sideways
weight vector should stay a trip over bars into at worst a fly by.


A sideways slide? That sure would be impressive, coming to a stop in a
plume of blue smoke on the road, but I wouldn't dare. Plus a tire might
come off. On mountain bikes it may be needed, like with a friend whose
front brake faded out during the last 100ft of a steep downhill section.
He set it sideways and came to a stop in an impressive dust plume.

If you meant while still going in a straight line that would just make
you sail off the bike a few inches lower but you'd still go off and the
bike will likely endo as well. You can't get much of a CG shift this way.


Last endo on asphalt was at speed after a fine day cycling up and
down a canyon, with cliff, from inexperience with the setup grabbing
brake levers to lift front wheel over a speed bump.


Some European bikes had (have?) the front brake on the right. That can
scare the daylights out of a rider not used to it.

Why on earth would you want it anywhere else?
It's a universal standard for two wheelers, that is only broken in a
very few countries for bicycles, and in none at all for motorcycles.

Switch your brake cables to the correct sides, get used to it now, and
stop using dangerous brake setups.
That way you'll never need to re-learn again.


This is as asking the UK to drive on the right side of the road.
We/I are used to left/front. No need to change that.

Lou

James schreef op 26-9-2014 0:28:
On 26/09/14 07:40, Joerg wrote:


Ever ridden a mountain bike?

You make it sound like they are something special.

Since the late 80's, I haven't found riding a MTB to be *much* different
from riding any other bicycle.

100% of the MTB I rode have the front brake
on the left.

I have never ridden nor seen a MTB with the front brake on the left.

Same for other bikes and that includes non-American ones.

I have never used a bicycle with the front brake on the left, though I
know they exist.


BTW, I have a road bike custom built in Europe (Germany), early 80's,
all high-end stuff back then. It has the front brake on the left.


Good for you. I have used 5 custom made road bikes, all of which had
the front brake on the right.

My guess is that most people's right hand is stronger than their left,
and they have better motor skills to apply the brake better with the
right hand. YMMV.



All my bikes all my live have/had front/left. You drive at the left side
of the road no?
There you go.

Lou

On 26/09/14 15:41, Lou Holtman wrote:
James schreef op 26-9-2014 0:28:
On 26/09/14 07:40, Joerg wrote:


Ever ridden a mountain bike?

You make it sound like they are something special.

Since the late 80's, I haven't found riding a MTB to be *much* different
from riding any other bicycle.

100% of the MTB I rode have the front brake
on the left.

I have never ridden nor seen a MTB with the front brake on the left.

Same for other bikes and that includes non-American ones.

I have never used a bicycle with the front brake on the left, though I
know they exist.


BTW, I have a road bike custom built in Europe (Germany), early 80's,
all high-end stuff back then. It has the front brake on the left.


Good for you. I have used 5 custom made road bikes, all of which had
the front brake on the right.

My guess is that most people's right hand is stronger than their left,
and they have better motor skills to apply the brake better with the
right hand. YMMV.



All my bikes all my live have/had front/left. You drive at the left side
of the road no?
There you go.


I go the way motorbikes go. Front brake on the right lever, regardless
of the side of the road driven on.

--
JS

James schreef op 26-9-2014 8:37:
On 26/09/14 15:41, Lou Holtman wrote:
James schreef op 26-9-2014 0:28:
On 26/09/14 07:40, Joerg wrote:


Ever ridden a mountain bike?

You make it sound like they are something special.

Since the late 80's, I haven't found riding a MTB to be *much* different
from riding any other bicycle.

100% of the MTB I rode have the front brake
on the left.

I have never ridden nor seen a MTB with the front brake on the left.

Same for other bikes and that includes non-American ones.

I have never used a bicycle with the front brake on the left, though I
know they exist.


BTW, I have a road bike custom built in Europe (Germany), early 80's,
all high-end stuff back then. It has the front brake on the left.


Good for you. I have used 5 custom made road bikes, all of which had
the front brake on the right.

My guess is that most people's right hand is stronger than their left,
and they have better motor skills to apply the brake better with the
right hand. YMMV.



All my bikes all my live have/had front/left. You drive at the left side
of the road no?
There you go.


I go the way motorbikes go. Front brake on the right lever, regardless
of the side of the road driven on.



That is OK with me. I got the impression that some people think that
front/left is rare. It is not. Stick what you are used to. I'm used to
motorbikes right/front and bicycles left/front. Shimono tried to
introduce reverse shifting for the RD to make the operation more
consistent with the FD. That failed.

Lou

On 9/25/2014 5:30 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, September 25, 2014 5:40:11 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Phil W Lee wrote:

Joerg considered Wed, 24 Sep 2014

09:50:07 -0700 the perfect time to write:



wrote:

SLIDING BACK is more dirt motion than road grip.



It is about not going over the bars when you have to reach into the

front brake hard.





... With road contact

motion to side, inside best but go with the flow. Adding a sideways

weight vector should stay a trip over bars into at worst a fly by.



A sideways slide? That sure would be impressive, coming to a stop in a

plume of blue smoke on the road, but I wouldn't dare. Plus a tire might

come off. On mountain bikes it may be needed, like with a friend whose

front brake faded out during the last 100ft of a steep downhill section.

He set it sideways and came to a stop in an impressive dust plume.



If you meant while still going in a straight line that would just make

you sail off the bike a few inches lower but you'd still go off and the

bike will likely endo as well. You can't get much of a CG shift this way.





Last endo on asphalt was at speed after a fine day cycling up and

down a canyon, with cliff, from inexperience with the setup grabbing

brake levers to lift front wheel over a speed bump.



Some European bikes had (have?) the front brake on the right. That can

scare the daylights out of a rider not used to it.



Why on earth would you want it anywhere else?

It's a universal standard for two wheelers, that is only broken in a

very few countries for bicycles, and in none at all for motorcycles.



Switch your brake cables to the correct sides, get used to it now, and

stop using dangerous brake setups.

That way you'll never need to re-learn again.





Ever ridden a mountain bike? 100% of the MTB I rode have the front brake

on the left. Same for other bikes and that includes non-American ones.

Not being used to that can get you killed dead, as John Wayne would have

put it.



BTW, I have a road bike custom built in Europe (Germany), early 80's,

all high-end stuff back then. It has the front brake on the left.



--

Regards, Joerg



http://www.analogconsultants.com/

With combination barke levers/shifters like Brifters or Ergos putting the front brake on the right means you have to cross the derraileur cables otherwise your right ****er will be for the rear and your right brake will be for the front. That can get confusing too.

Cheers


Was that satire?
One need only connect the lever of your choice to the brake
of your choice using a standard brake wire in every system I
know.
Oh, brake wire? No issues with running hydraulic lines to
either lever.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Brain function lateralization is evident in the phenomena of right- or left-handedness[6] and of right or left ear preference,[7] but a person's preferred hand is not a clear indication of the location of brain function. Although 95% of right-handed people have left-hemisphere dominance for language, 18.8% of left-handed people have right-hemisphere dominance for language function. Additionally, 19.8% of the left-handed have bilateral language functions.[8] Even within various language functions (e.g., semantics, syntax, prosody), degree (and even hemisphere) of dominance may differ.[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral...brain_function

SATIRE ? eyyyahhhhhhhh..
No, we were rerouted to Cleveland landing nose first.
J? go out an crash on the road with a locked front brake....
My crash from first jump with trek bars.
brakes worked good.

On 9/26/2014 1:34 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Thu, 25 Sep 2014
14:40:11 -0700 the perfect time to write:

Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Wed, 24 Sep 2014
09:50:07 -0700 the perfect time to write:

wrote:
SLIDING BACK is more dirt motion than road grip.

It is about not going over the bars when you have to reach into the
front brake hard.


... With road contact
motion to side, inside best but go with the flow. Adding a sideways
weight vector should stay a trip over bars into at worst a fly by.

A sideways slide? That sure would be impressive, coming to a stop in a
plume of blue smoke on the road, but I wouldn't dare. Plus a tire might
come off. On mountain bikes it may be needed, like with a friend whose
front brake faded out during the last 100ft of a steep downhill section.
He set it sideways and came to a stop in an impressive dust plume.

If you meant while still going in a straight line that would just make
you sail off the bike a few inches lower but you'd still go off and the
bike will likely endo as well. You can't get much of a CG shift this way.


Last endo on asphalt was at speed after a fine day cycling up and
down a canyon, with cliff, from inexperience with the setup grabbing
brake levers to lift front wheel over a speed bump.

Some European bikes had (have?) the front brake on the right. That can
scare the daylights out of a rider not used to it.

Why on earth would you want it anywhere else?
It's a universal standard for two wheelers, that is only broken in a
very few countries for bicycles, and in none at all for motorcycles.

Switch your brake cables to the correct sides, get used to it now, and
stop using dangerous brake setups.
That way you'll never need to re-learn again.


Ever ridden a mountain bike?

Lots of them. All, without exception have had the front brake on the
right. Same for other bikes and that includes some American ones
Riding one with a dangerous left operated front brake can get you
killed dead, and John Wayne would have put it.

100% of the MTB I rode have the front brake
on the left. Same for other bikes and that includes non-American ones.
Not being used to that can get you killed dead, as John Wayne would have
put it.

BTW, I have a road bike custom built in Europe (Germany), early 80's,
all high-end stuff back then. It has the front brake on the left.

They must have set up that way specially for you.
How many motorcycles have you ever seen with left front brakes?
Go look at a Harley Davidson - I think even you'll accept that is an
American two wheeler. And the front brake will be on the right,
except in those very rare circumstances where the bike has been
extensively modified for a rider with little or no right hand function
(the same exception I would allow for pedal cycles).


There's no right or wrong about it.
Nearly all bicycles in USA have left front, merely by
convention, but true nonetheless.

When I was young, French bicycles always arrived with left
front but many Italian bikes[1] had right front. After
1974[2] all imports were left front.

Raleigh USA catalog for 1951= Right front
http://sheldonbrown.com/retroraleigh...and/index.html

Raleigh USA catalog for 1971 = Left front:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/11pumpb.jpg

Someone older than I might know when that changed over.

Japanese roads are left (British) side, so you'd expect
their bicycles to be right front. Nope, left front. Your
comment?

I reiterate; neither is 'better' but please do not change.
Stay with your own hard-wired reaction habits.

[1] Many brands but not all brands. Hub QR on the right side
were also common then. We changed both QR and front brake
cable to left side.
[2] CPSC imposed quite a few national bicycle regulations
that year. Brake routing may or may not have been specified.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Thu, 25 Sep 2014
15:44:48 -0700 the perfect time to write:

James wrote:
On 26/09/14 07:40, Joerg wrote:

[...]


BTW, I have a road bike custom built in Europe (Germany), early 80's,
all high-end stuff back then. It has the front brake on the left.

Good for you. I have used 5 custom made road bikes, all of which had
the front brake on the right.

My guess is that most people's right hand is stronger than their left,
and they have better motor skills to apply the brake better with the
right hand. YMMV.

Where are you living? In the UK? After all, they are driving on the
wrong side of the road :-)

duck and run

As well you might.
We did win at Waterloo you know.


One shall not rest on the laurels :-)


BTW, it just occurred to me that even my Bacchetta has a right front
brake, and has had from new.

That's made in the US.


AFAIK they only make recumbents. I do not know what's customary there
and have never ridden one. But if any regular US bike would be shipped
with reversed brake handles that manufacturer would open themselves to
lawsuits should something happen.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Thu, 25 Sep 2014
14:40:11 -0700 the perfect time to write:

Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Wed, 24 Sep 2014
09:50:07 -0700 the perfect time to write:

wrote:
SLIDING BACK is more dirt motion than road grip.
It is about not going over the bars when you have to reach into the
front brake hard.


... With road contact
motion to side, inside best but go with the flow. Adding a sideways
weight vector should stay a trip over bars into at worst a fly by.

A sideways slide? That sure would be impressive, coming to a stop in a
plume of blue smoke on the road, but I wouldn't dare. Plus a tire might
come off. On mountain bikes it may be needed, like with a friend whose
front brake faded out during the last 100ft of a steep downhill section.
He set it sideways and came to a stop in an impressive dust plume.

If you meant while still going in a straight line that would just make
you sail off the bike a few inches lower but you'd still go off and the
bike will likely endo as well. You can't get much of a CG shift this way.


Last endo on asphalt was at speed after a fine day cycling up and
down a canyon, with cliff, from inexperience with the setup grabbing
brake levers to lift front wheel over a speed bump.

Some European bikes had (have?) the front brake on the right. That can
scare the daylights out of a rider not used to it.
Why on earth would you want it anywhere else?
It's a universal standard for two wheelers, that is only broken in a
very few countries for bicycles, and in none at all for motorcycles.

Switch your brake cables to the correct sides, get used to it now, and
stop using dangerous brake setups.
That way you'll never need to re-learn again.

Ever ridden a mountain bike?

Lots of them. All, without exception have had the front brake on the
right. Same for other bikes and that includes some American ones
Riding one with a dangerous left operated front brake can get you
killed dead, and John Wayne would have put it.

100% of the MTB I rode have the front brake
on the left. Same for other bikes and that includes non-American ones.
Not being used to that can get you killed dead, as John Wayne would have
put it.

BTW, I have a road bike custom built in Europe (Germany), early 80's,
all high-end stuff back then. It has the front brake on the left.

They must have set up that way specially for you.


Nope. Just as they came from the factory. For example, during my last
trip to Germany early this month I rode a Nishiki trekking bike and of
course it had the front brake on the left. Same for a (non-US) mountain
bike. Neitehr had been modified.


How many motorcycles have you ever seen with left front brakes?


None. Which is why the brake handle arrangement on bicycles always
puzzled me. Also because the coaster brake bikes I had as a kid had the
front brake on the right. But none of the freehub bikes ever did.


Go look at a Harley Davidson - I think even you'll accept that is an
American two wheeler. And the front brake will be on the right,
except in those very rare circumstances where the bike has been
extensively modified for a rider with little or no right hand function
(the same exception I would allow for pedal cycles).


On motorcycles it's different, they all have them on the right and the
clutch handle on the left. It couldn't be any other way because the
accelerator is on the right and having the clutch on the same side just
would not be practical. Bicycles don't have a clutch and usually have
the front brakes on the left. Not that this makes any sense but it's
just the way it is.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Friday, September 26, 2014 3:04:08 PM UTC-4, Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Thu, 25 Sep 2014

17:21:29 -0700 the perfect time to write:



James wrote:

On 26/09/14 08:44, Joerg wrote:

James wrote:

On 26/09/14 07:40, Joerg wrote:





Ever ridden a mountain bike?



You make it sound like they are something special.



Since the late 80's, I haven't found riding a MTB to be *much* different

from riding any other bicycle.





It isn't.





100% of the MTB I rode have the front brake

on the left.



I have never ridden nor seen a MTB with the front brake on the left.





Interesting. What brands are they? Did they modify them for your country?





Repco (local brand), Fisher Procaliber, and now Azzurri Lava

http://www.dinkos.com.au/Azzurri+Lava+MTB-1140177.htm



The Azzurri I bought in the box and performed the final assembled

myself. The levers were already on the bars. I don't recall if the

cables were attached to the brakes already or not.





Cables? On a mountain bikes?



Anyhow, if they weren't attached yet you get your pick, of course. I

never understood why bicycles have the brake handles on opposite sides

as motorcycles but all the ones I ever rode had front on left. So I got

used to it. Except, of course, the kids bikes with coaster brake and

only one lever on the right.



So you HAVE found right front brake arrangements.

Why make kids re-learn when they move up to a larger bike?

Leave the front brake lever where it belongs, and where the've got

used to it being.

The same reflexes will stand them in good stead if they ever go on to

ride motorcycles as well.



And keeping consistent reflexes speeds up reaction times, as you never

need to consciously consider whick lever operates which brake - your

brain calls for whichever brake and it happens, wired into the muscle

memory.

Geez Phil, MILLIONS of BICYCLES are sold every year with the FRONT brake controlled by the LEFT lever. It's a BICYCLE and most riders of BICYCLES never ride motorcycles.

Cheers