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Creeping brake pad drag



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 21st 19, 11:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default Creeping brake pad drag

On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 6:02:18 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 11:07:59 AM UTC-8, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
I have been riding a gravel bike (Kona Rove NRB DL https://www.konaworld.com/rove_nrb_dl.cfm) for a year now. It has developed a tendency to drag the pads of the front brakes against the disc. I recently had the pads and rotor, front and rear, replaced (about 5,000 Km of use). As I ride, a noise comes from the front brake that suggests that the pads are touching the rotor, and it increases in volume until I "blip" the lever, which makes it go away for maybe another Km or so--or less.

Has anyone encountered this before? if yes, how did you solve it?


Yikes, you must do a lot of braking. 3K miles for a rotor doesn't seem like much.

Anyway, you may just need to reset your pistons. https://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/r...liper-pistons/ If that doesn't work, then the next thing is checking to make sure the caliper is centered. Like Andrew says, just follow the instructions for installation/alignment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk_nC9anQcM&t=13s

If that doesn't do it, check to make sure that both pistons are retracting. I have a piston that will drag occasionally, and I need to clean it. Follow this routine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQXF...&feature=youtu

Another outside possibility is that the system is over-filled, so if all else fails, bleed it and refill it.

And if all that doesn't work, buy a new caliper -- you could just have a bad one (there can be issues with seals and pistons). The notion that a hydraulic road disc will inevitably drag and make noise is wrong. I have hydraulic discs on three bikes, and they drag only when there is an issue.

-- Jay Beattie.


Damn, you said that you were down here in San Francisco and I wanted to give you the replacement "springs" for the Keo Blade that I had but I can't find them now.
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  #12  
Old November 22nd 19, 02:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Creeping brake pad drag

On 11/20/2019 9:02 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 11:07:59 AM UTC-8, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
I have been riding a gravel bike (Kona Rove NRB DL https://www.konaworld.com/rove_nrb_dl.cfm) for a year now. It has developed a tendency to drag the pads of the front brakes against the disc. I recently had the pads and rotor, front and rear, replaced (about 5,000 Km of use). As I ride, a noise comes from the front brake that suggests that the pads are touching the rotor, and it increases in volume until I "blip" the lever, which makes it go away for maybe another Km or so--or less.

Has anyone encountered this before? if yes, how did you solve it?


Yikes, you must do a lot of braking. 3K miles for a rotor doesn't seem like much.

Anyway, you may just need to reset your pistons. https://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/r...liper-pistons/ If that doesn't work, then the next thing is checking to make sure the caliper is centered. Like Andrew says, just follow the instructions for installation/alignment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk_nC9anQcM&t=13s

If that doesn't do it, check to make sure that both pistons are retracting. I have a piston that will drag occasionally, and I need to clean it. Follow this routine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQXF...&feature=youtu


I just got around to watching those.

The last procedure especially seems to be a real pain. And it's required
by mere dirt? Sheesh.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #13  
Old November 22nd 19, 02:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Creeping brake pad drag

On Thursday, November 21, 2019 at 5:22:21 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/20/2019 9:02 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 11:07:59 AM UTC-8, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
I have been riding a gravel bike (Kona Rove NRB DL https://www.konaworld.com/rove_nrb_dl.cfm) for a year now. It has developed a tendency to drag the pads of the front brakes against the disc. I recently had the pads and rotor, front and rear, replaced (about 5,000 Km of use). As I ride, a noise comes from the front brake that suggests that the pads are touching the rotor, and it increases in volume until I "blip" the lever, which makes it go away for maybe another Km or so--or less.

Has anyone encountered this before? if yes, how did you solve it?


Yikes, you must do a lot of braking. 3K miles for a rotor doesn't seem like much.

Anyway, you may just need to reset your pistons. https://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/r...liper-pistons/ If that doesn't work, then the next thing is checking to make sure the caliper is centered. Like Andrew says, just follow the instructions for installation/alignment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk_nC9anQcM&t=13s

If that doesn't do it, check to make sure that both pistons are retracting. I have a piston that will drag occasionally, and I need to clean it. Follow this routine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQXF...&feature=youtu


I just got around to watching those.

The last procedure especially seems to be a real pain. And it's required
by mere dirt? Sheesh.


Would you be truly happy if new technology were problem free, and the tedious Jute Trollfests were all we had to read? Thank god for fussy disc brakes!

Discs are not really that bad, either, and a sticky piston is about equivalent to getting crap stuck in your brake pads -- although you can't just throw in a new piston and call it good like you can with a brake pad. And adjusting cantis is worse. I can mount, fill and align a disc caliper in the time it takes to get a canti working well with STI levers, if ever.

I like my hydraulic discs and do regret getting my latest, greatest racing bike with rim brakes -- but only because my Dura Ace front rim brake track is about gone, and it sounds terrible when I brake. Even dry braking does have a rim lathe effect, although it is much worse in the wet. That's one reason why I switched to discs for my wet weather bikes -- I got tired of replacing rims. Not being able to stop well in the rain was another reason. I am sold on discs for wet weather riding. I'm agnostic for dry weather riding -- unless I were on CF rims or end-of-life aluminum rims or wanted big fat tires. Being able to put a 28mm on racing bike is kind of fun.

-- Jay Beattie.




  #14  
Old November 22nd 19, 03:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Creeping brake pad drag

On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 17:49:43 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Thursday, November 21, 2019 at 5:22:21 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/20/2019 9:02 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 11:07:59 AM UTC-8, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
I have been riding a gravel bike (Kona Rove NRB DL https://www.konaworld.com/rove_nrb_dl.cfm) for a year now. It has developed a tendency to drag the pads of the front brakes against the disc. I recently had the pads and rotor, front and rear, replaced (about 5,000 Km of use). As I ride, a noise comes from the front brake that suggests that the pads are touching the rotor, and it increases in volume until I "blip" the lever, which makes it go away for maybe another Km or so--or less.

Has anyone encountered this before? if yes, how did you solve it?

Yikes, you must do a lot of braking. 3K miles for a rotor doesn't seem like much.

Anyway, you may just need to reset your pistons. https://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/r...liper-pistons/ If that doesn't work, then the next thing is checking to make sure the caliper is centered. Like Andrew says, just follow the instructions for installation/alignment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk_nC9anQcM&t=13s

If that doesn't do it, check to make sure that both pistons are retracting. I have a piston that will drag occasionally, and I need to clean it. Follow this routine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQXF...&feature=youtu


I just got around to watching those.

The last procedure especially seems to be a real pain. And it's required
by mere dirt? Sheesh.


Would you be truly happy if new technology were problem free, and the tedious Jute Trollfests were all we had to read? Thank god for fussy disc brakes!


So the verdict it that malfunctioning disk brakes are preferable to
The Tedious Jute.

I do not have disk brakes but having observed The Tedious One, I
believe that you may well be correct.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #15  
Old November 22nd 19, 09:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Creeping brake pad drag

On Friday, November 22, 2019 at 2:22:21 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/20/2019 9:02 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 11:07:59 AM UTC-8, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
I have been riding a gravel bike (Kona Rove NRB DL https://www.konaworld.com/rove_nrb_dl.cfm) for a year now. It has developed a tendency to drag the pads of the front brakes against the disc. I recently had the pads and rotor, front and rear, replaced (about 5,000 Km of use). As I ride, a noise comes from the front brake that suggests that the pads are touching the rotor, and it increases in volume until I "blip" the lever, which makes it go away for maybe another Km or so--or less.

Has anyone encountered this before? if yes, how did you solve it?


Yikes, you must do a lot of braking. 3K miles for a rotor doesn't seem like much.

Anyway, you may just need to reset your pistons. https://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/r...liper-pistons/ If that doesn't work, then the next thing is checking to make sure the caliper is centered. Like Andrew says, just follow the instructions for installation/alignment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk_nC9anQcM&t=13s

If that doesn't do it, check to make sure that both pistons are retracting. I have a piston that will drag occasionally, and I need to clean it. Follow this routine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQXF...&feature=youtu


I just got around to watching those.

The last procedure especially seems to be a real pain. And it's required
by mere dirt? Sheesh.


--
- Frank Krygowski


Many people expect that when getting disk brakes they will get a maintenance free system. Thats is not the case. Cleaning the pistons once in a while is something I do to prevent pad drag which in most cases is only a mental issue. Cleaning the pistons is no more work than getting the metal parts out of the brake pads and/or sanding the brake areas of the rims after a rainy and muddy ride with caliper brakes and the sound that caliper brakepads make with metal parts inbedded is much worse than than little drag sound disk brakes make. YMMV.

Lou
  #16  
Old November 22nd 19, 09:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Creeping brake pad drag

On Friday, November 22, 2019 at 2:49:46 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 21, 2019 at 5:22:21 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/20/2019 9:02 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 11:07:59 AM UTC-8, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
I have been riding a gravel bike (Kona Rove NRB DL https://www.konaworld.com/rove_nrb_dl.cfm) for a year now. It has developed a tendency to drag the pads of the front brakes against the disc. I recently had the pads and rotor, front and rear, replaced (about 5,000 Km of use). As I ride, a noise comes from the front brake that suggests that the pads are touching the rotor, and it increases in volume until I "blip" the lever, which makes it go away for maybe another Km or so--or less.

Has anyone encountered this before? if yes, how did you solve it?

Yikes, you must do a lot of braking. 3K miles for a rotor doesn't seem like much.

Anyway, you may just need to reset your pistons. https://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/r...liper-pistons/ If that doesn't work, then the next thing is checking to make sure the caliper is centered. Like Andrew says, just follow the instructions for installation/alignment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk_nC9anQcM&t=13s

If that doesn't do it, check to make sure that both pistons are retracting. I have a piston that will drag occasionally, and I need to clean it. Follow this routine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQXF...&feature=youtu


I just got around to watching those.

The last procedure especially seems to be a real pain. And it's required
by mere dirt? Sheesh.


Would you be truly happy if new technology were problem free, and the tedious Jute Trollfests were all we had to read? Thank god for fussy disc brakes!

Discs are not really that bad, either, and a sticky piston is about equivalent to getting crap stuck in your brake pads -- although you can't just throw in a new piston and call it good like you can with a brake pad. And adjusting cantis is worse. I can mount, fill and align a disc caliper in the time it takes to get a canti working well with STI levers, if ever.

I like my hydraulic discs and do regret getting my latest, greatest racing bike with rim brakes -- but only because my Dura Ace front rim brake track is about gone, and it sounds terrible when I brake. Even dry braking does have a rim lathe effect, although it is much worse in the wet. That's one reason why I switched to discs for my wet weather bikes -- I got tired of replacing rims. Not being able to stop well in the rain was another reason. I am sold on discs for wet weather riding. I'm agnostic for dry weather riding -- unless I were on CF rims or end-of-life aluminum rims or wanted big fat tires. Being able to put a 28mm on racing bike is kind of fun.

-- Jay Beattie.


Excactly what I was thinking (see my last post). I understand your choice in your often awful riding condition. In my situation I definitely prefer rim brakes for my road bikes. For my cross bike I prefer hydraulic disk brakes and accept the 'hassle' of the maintenance. Breaking in new pads I find most annoying.

Lou
  #17  
Old November 22nd 19, 03:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andrew Chaplin[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Creeping brake pad drag

On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 9:02:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 11:07:59 AM UTC-8, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
I have been riding a gravel bike (Kona Rove NRB DL https://www.konaworld.com/rove_nrb_dl.cfm) for a year now. It has developed a tendency to drag the pads of the front brakes against the disc. I recently had the pads and rotor, front and rear, replaced (about 5,000 Km of use). As I ride, a noise comes from the front brake that suggests that the pads are touching the rotor, and it increases in volume until I "blip" the lever, which makes it go away for maybe another Km or so--or less.

Has anyone encountered this before? if yes, how did you solve it?


Yikes, you must do a lot of braking. 3K miles for a rotor doesn't seem like much.

Anyway, you may just need to reset your pistons.
https://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/r...liper-pistons/
If that doesn't work, then the next thing is checking to make sure the caliper
is centered. Like Andrew says, just follow the instructions for
installation/alignment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk_nC9anQcM&t=13s

If that doesn't do it, check to make sure that both pistons are retracting.
I have a piston that will drag occasionally, and I need to clean it. Follow
this routine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQXF...&feature=youtu

Another outside possibility is that the system is over-filled, so if all else
fails, bleed it and refill it.

And if all that doesn't work, buy a new caliper -- you could just have a bad
one (there can be issues with seals and pistons). The notion that a hydraulic
road disc will inevitably drag and make noise is wrong. I have hydraulic discs
on three bikes, and they drag only when there is an issue.


I took it to the bike shop where I had the brake work done. They may have
damaged the seals as, after working on it and taking it for a test ride, front
braking faded quickly and there was oil leaking.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
  #18  
Old November 22nd 19, 03:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Creeping brake pad drag

On 11/22/2019 2:02 AM, wrote:
On Friday, November 22, 2019 at 2:22:21 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/20/2019 9:02 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 11:07:59 AM UTC-8, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
I have been riding a gravel bike (Kona Rove NRB DL
https://www.konaworld.com/rove_nrb_dl.cfm) for a year now. It has developed a tendency to drag the pads of the front brakes against the disc. I recently had the pads and rotor, front and rear, replaced (about 5,000 Km of use). As I ride, a noise comes from the front brake that suggests that the pads are touching the rotor, and it increases in volume until I "blip" the lever, which makes it go away for maybe another Km or so--or less.

Has anyone encountered this before? if yes, how did you solve it?

Yikes, you must do a lot of braking. 3K miles for a rotor doesn't seem like much.

Anyway, you may just need to reset your pistons. https://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/r...liper-pistons/ If that doesn't work, then the next thing is checking to make sure the caliper is centered. Like Andrew says, just follow the instructions for installation/alignment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk_nC9anQcM&t=13s

If that doesn't do it, check to make sure that both pistons are retracting. I have a piston that will drag occasionally, and I need to clean it. Follow this routine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQXF...&feature=youtu


I just got around to watching those.

The last procedure especially seems to be a real pain. And it's required
by mere dirt? Sheesh.


--
- Frank Krygowski


Many people expect that when getting disk brakes they will get a maintenance free system. Thats is not the case. Cleaning the pistons once in a while is something I do to prevent pad drag which in most cases is only a mental issue. Cleaning the pistons is no more work than getting the metal parts out of the brake pads and/or sanding the brake areas of the rims after a rainy and muddy ride with caliper brakes and the sound that caliper brakepads make with metal parts inbedded is much worse than than little drag sound disk brakes make. YMMV.

Lou

+1
Neither is 'better' overall. They're different each with
their own features and foibles.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #19  
Old November 22nd 19, 03:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Creeping brake pad drag

On Friday, November 22, 2019 at 6:01:59 AM UTC-8, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 9:02:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 11:07:59 AM UTC-8, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
I have been riding a gravel bike (Kona Rove NRB DL https://www.konaworld.com/rove_nrb_dl.cfm) for a year now. It has developed a tendency to drag the pads of the front brakes against the disc. I recently had the pads and rotor, front and rear, replaced (about 5,000 Km of use). As I ride, a noise comes from the front brake that suggests that the pads are touching the rotor, and it increases in volume until I "blip" the lever, which makes it go away for maybe another Km or so--or less.

Has anyone encountered this before? if yes, how did you solve it?


Yikes, you must do a lot of braking. 3K miles for a rotor doesn't seem like much.

Anyway, you may just need to reset your pistons.
https://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/r...liper-pistons/
If that doesn't work, then the next thing is checking to make sure the caliper
is centered. Like Andrew says, just follow the instructions for
installation/alignment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk_nC9anQcM&t=13s

If that doesn't do it, check to make sure that both pistons are retracting.
I have a piston that will drag occasionally, and I need to clean it. Follow
this routine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQXF...&feature=youtu

Another outside possibility is that the system is over-filled, so if all else
fails, bleed it and refill it.

And if all that doesn't work, buy a new caliper -- you could just have a bad
one (there can be issues with seals and pistons). The notion that a hydraulic
road disc will inevitably drag and make noise is wrong. I have hydraulic discs
on three bikes, and they drag only when there is an issue.


I took it to the bike shop where I had the brake work done. They may have
damaged the seals as, after working on it and taking it for a test ride, front
braking faded quickly and there was oil leaking.


You need a different shop!

From where is the oil leaking? You can have piston seal issues as well as other issues that are relatively easy to fix, like a leaking hose connection.. Other leaks can be: (1) bad internal o-ring and leaking from the seam between the two caliper halves. This was a known problem on certain RS785s, the predecessor of your caliper. I replaced the internal o-ring seal on one caliper (and now have a bag of redundant little o-rings), and that caliper woks like a charm. (2) You can also get leaking from the fill port because the stopper screw is not seating. You just pull that out, make sure the o-ring on the screw is seated properly and that the screw-seat is clean and clear. And (3) you can have a piston seal leak, which could repair itself when the piston is pushed back in. You could even have a cracked piston. Anyway, those things are reparable, although I have never replaced a piston or seal. Youtube has videos. It's probably easier buying a new caliper, which are not horribly expensive. BTW, if you have oil on the pad, it will never work right again regardless of cleaning, sanding, etc., etc. At least that's been my experience. The pad will work marginally O.K., but I'd just buy a new set.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #20  
Old November 22nd 19, 04:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Creeping brake pad drag

On 11/22/2019 8:50 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, November 22, 2019 at 6:01:59 AM UTC-8, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 9:02:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 11:07:59 AM UTC-8, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
I have been riding a gravel bike (Kona Rove NRB DL https://www.konaworld.com/rove_nrb_dl.cfm) for a year now. It has developed a tendency to drag the pads of the front brakes against the disc. I recently had the pads and rotor, front and rear, replaced (about 5,000 Km of use). As I ride, a noise comes from the front brake that suggests that the pads are touching the rotor, and it increases in volume until I "blip" the lever, which makes it go away for maybe another Km or so--or less.

Has anyone encountered this before? if yes, how did you solve it?

Yikes, you must do a lot of braking. 3K miles for a rotor doesn't seem like much.

Anyway, you may just need to reset your pistons.
https://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/r...liper-pistons/
If that doesn't work, then the next thing is checking to make sure the caliper
is centered. Like Andrew says, just follow the instructions for
installation/alignment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk_nC9anQcM&t=13s

If that doesn't do it, check to make sure that both pistons are retracting.
I have a piston that will drag occasionally, and I need to clean it. Follow
this routine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQXF...&feature=youtu

Another outside possibility is that the system is over-filled, so if all else
fails, bleed it and refill it.

And if all that doesn't work, buy a new caliper -- you could just have a bad
one (there can be issues with seals and pistons). The notion that a hydraulic
road disc will inevitably drag and make noise is wrong. I have hydraulic discs
on three bikes, and they drag only when there is an issue.


I took it to the bike shop where I had the brake work done. They may have
damaged the seals as, after working on it and taking it for a test ride, front
braking faded quickly and there was oil leaking.


You need a different shop!

From where is the oil leaking? You can have piston seal issues as well as other issues that are relatively easy to fix, like a leaking hose connection. Other leaks can be: (1) bad internal o-ring and leaking from the seam between the two caliper halves. This was a known problem on certain RS785s, the predecessor of your caliper. I replaced the internal o-ring seal on one caliper (and now have a bag of redundant little o-rings), and that caliper woks like a charm. (2) You can also get leaking from the fill port because the stopper screw is not seating. You just pull that out, make sure the o-ring on the screw is seated properly and that the screw-seat is clean and clear. And (3) you can have a piston seal leak, which could repair itself when the piston is pushed back in. You could even have a cracked piston. Anyway, those things are reparable, although I have never replaced a piston or seal. Youtube has videos. It's probably easier buying a new caliper, which are not horrib

ly expensive. BTW, if you have oil on the pad, it will never work right again regardless of cleaning, sanding, etc., etc. At least that's been my experience. The pad will work marginally O.K., but I'd just buy a new set.

-- Jay Beattie.


If he dropped it off without leaks and received it leaking,
a full rebuild or replacement ought to be free.

Except for the medical racket, that's normal to most other
businesses.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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