Bike crash insurance questions

In article ,
(Amit) wrote:

SuperSlinky wrote in message
et...

A few days ago i was riding along a busy downtown street around 9pm
and a guy stepped on to the road (not at an intersection) and I hit
him, at 35-38 kph. I didn't even get a chance to brake.

I knocked him to the pavement (hard) and hit the ground myself.

The guy was so rattled, he just asked me if I was okay, (I said I was)
and he bolted before I could examine my bike.

Turns out my front rim is bent (bad), but that was the only damage to
my bike. I'd say the damage was about $100.

He probably figured (rightly) that the accident was his fault, so he
made a quick getaway, though in fairness I didn't have a headlight,
but the street was well lit, so I don't know who would take the blame
for this accident.

But here's the kicker. He spilled a bunch of cards (gas station,
blockbuster video, etc.) at the scene, including his social insurance
card, but didn't pick them up in his haste. Though there's no address
on the cards I think I could track him down.

Should I track him down and make him pay for my wheel ? Keep in mind
he might make the case that I didn't have a headlight and I really hit
him hard and probably messed up his nice clothes, and maybe even
injured him, though he acted okay.

Well, assuming that the utoronto.ca address means this happened in
Toronto, 9pm is more than an hour after sunset. Without a headlight on
your bike, I think you'd have a hard time making him pay premised on the
accident being his fault, even with him stepping out right in front of
you. It's probably more likely that you would be judged at fault for
not having a light even if there was plenty of light from street lights.
I'd just lick your wounds and pay for another wheel.

Baird

I know that the bike is basically a total loss, in spite of the fact
that it could probably be fixed up and see years of trouble-free
service. But the insurance company wants a salvage value, either for
reduction of the settlement to me, or to sell it on their own. Honestly,
I don't know what they intend to do with it. So does anyone want to
offer an opinion as to the value of the bike in its current condition?
One approach I intend to offer to the insurance company is to put it on
eBay, exactly as described here and let the market decide. They can then
pay me the difference.

It doesn't matter that there may be salvage value to some of the parts. The
bike was only 4 days old, the driver was at fault, and they owe you a new
bike. It's their responsibility, not yours, to figure out what the scrap
value of the remaining parts is.

If the bike was older and had a fair amount of wear & tear, I'd feel
differently. But... look at what happens when a car is in a crash. It has
to be noted that it had been crashed at the time that it's re-sold as a used
car, even though it may be in perfectly fine condition. The value of a car
that's so noted is greatly diminished. It's easy to draw parallels to your
bike.

Tell them that, if they feel the bike has a lot of remaining value to it,
fine, it's theirs to deal with. Their responsibility to you is to set you
up with something with the same unquestionable performance and reliability
as the new bike that it was.

As for you- you need to be firm in telling them that you get a new bike, and
then stand away from all other questions regarding how they deal with it.
That's their problem, not yours.

By the way, how did *you* come out of it? If you were at all injured, and
for some reason didn't go to a doctor at the time, please do so ASAP.
Insurance companies heavily discount injury claims (if they pay them at all)
if there's no medical report. If you were entirely untouched, great! But
if something made you miss work, or any other opportunity, make sure to note
it.

There's a certain irony in my response here. Our shop will not inflate an
insurance claim, despite the efforts of many people to try and have us do
so. The insurance companies know that we'll give them the straight scoop,
although we will, of course, give the benefit of the doubt to the
possibility that something may be damaged in a way that we cannot know. But
that's entirely different from making sure that you're taken care of the way
you should be.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"SuperSlinky" wrote in message
t...
I have spoken with the insurance adjuster after being hit by a car
running a red light last week and the biggest question mark so far
concerning a settlement is the salvage value of the bike. Repair
estimates are easy, but salvage value is a matter of opinion. The bike
was four days old and 100% mint at the time of the accident. Here is the
bike and damage detailed:

2004 Cannondale CAAD5 frameset 55cm - slight cosmetic damage to left
fork blade, no apparent structural damage to fork or frame under casual
inspection

2004 Campy Centaur group set including hubs - derailleur damaged, minor
damage to skewers, and right Ergo lever

Mavic Open Pro rims - Front bent in accident, rear wheel loose spokes
and off dish

Fizik Aliante full carbon leather saddle - a few very small rips in
leather

Shimano PD-R600 pedals - major scratches and gouges

Deda 215 Shallow handlebar

Ritchey WCS stem

American Classic seatpost

Conti Ultra 3000 tires

Shimano SH-R151 shoes - major scrapes and gouges

Drivetrain is noisy, suspect bent derailleur hanger, possibly frame.
Head tube, fork and headset absorbed most of the impact from the crash.
Stem was forced out of line and forced up the steerer tube. Headset was
very loose after the accident and could not be adjusted by me. A bike
mechanic reset it, against my instructions, but said structural damage
was unknown.

Repair estimates from bike shops equal or exceed the $2100 I have
invested in it from GVH Bikes. The frame has not been thoroughly
examined, but appears to be OK. GVH Bikes can replace the frame and fork
for $600 and the fork will be replaced regardless, so investing money
into examining the frame isn't very cost effective. Many parts are still
indistinguishable from new, but advice from bike shops varies widely as
to their fitness for their intended purpose. Some say all load bearing
parts should be scrapped for the sake of safety, others take the
attitude that if it doesn't look damaged, then don't worry about it.
Safely concerns aside, one problem is that the warranties on all of the
parts are gone now and, IMO, everything that isn't damaged should be
depreciated to the value of used parts.

I know that the bike is basically a total loss, in spite of the fact
that it could probably be fixed up and see years of trouble-free
service. But the insurance company wants a salvage value, either for
reduction of the settlement to me, or to sell it on their own. Honestly,
I don't know what they intend to do with it. So does anyone want to
offer an opinion as to the value of the bike in its current condition?
One approach I intend to offer to the insurance company is to put it on
eBay, exactly as described here and let the market decide. They can then
pay me the difference.

Dave Thompson said...

Another point; if you have two or more legitimate repair estimates from
recognized LBS where the repairs exceed the value of the bike, the bike is a
total loss, regardless of 'salvage value'. If you can document everything
you've said, about the other person running the red light (police report?)
repairs exceeding the value of the bike, you have a very strong case for a
speedy and FULL settlement of the bike and a perhaps a civil lawsuit against
that driver. If you stand your ground, present your case strongly and
forcefully (but in a dignified manner) you will be made whole again.

A civil suit would likely go nowhere with the driver. She was twenty-
something and driving a 10 year old car. Remember that even if you get a
judgement, it doesn't mean you ever get paid anything. It will just go
on their credit report, and that too will eventually disappear. Besides,
I'm not out to destroy anyone. She had insurance and if they do their
job, the mess can be cleaned up as painlessly as possible for everyone.

Arthur Harris said...

When a car is "totalled," the owner gets the book value of the car in cash,
and the insurance company gets the wrecked car. The same should be true in
this case. It's not for you to have to sell the wrecked bike; that shouldn't
be your concern.

Yes, the estimates are about exactly equal to what I paid for the bike.

Finally, I haven't heard anything about personal injury. I'm sure you must
have experienced some pain and anxiety as a result of the crash. Don't be so
quick to dismiss that.

You are correct that pain and suffering will be part of the settlement.
The adjuster said $200 - $300, and considering that he was flatly
rejecting requests of paltry sums for legitimate expenses, that may be
only a small fraction of what I might get if I played hardball. As for
the injuries, after a week, they are still nagging me. Who knows what
wear and tear from them will come back to haunt me as years go by. I
severely sprained my ankle 10 years ago and I still fell twinges from it
almost every day.

No! You get a new bike, and they get the old one. They can do what they
please with it. Don't complicate matters.

Art Harris

I agree that was an overly generous thought on my part. The adjuster
didn't really deny that he was trying to pay the least he could legally
get away with, so I guess I will have to try and legally get the most I
can, and maybe the compromise will look something like what is actually
fair.

I know that the bike is basically a total loss, in spite of the fact
that it could probably be fixed up and see years of trouble-free
service. But the insurance company wants a salvage value, either for
reduction of the settlement to me, or to sell it on their own. Honestly,
I don't know what they intend to do with it. So does anyone want to
offer an opinion as to the value of the bike in its current condition?
One approach I intend to offer to the insurance company is to put it on
eBay, exactly as described here and let the market decide. They can then
pay me the difference.

It's their problem. They're attempting to divert you from an injuries
claim. The salvage value is basically scrap material. They'll only recover
the bike to spite you. I believe two reports giving the bike is totalled is
sufficient. If you can use some parts or know someone wants them I suggest
1/6 for those parts which are otherwise undamaged (minor scratches only.)
Do not give them an inkling of what you think the value may be, as far as
your concerned it's wasted. Wait for the cheque to be handed over and see
what happens. The broken bike of course may be used in evidence to
demonstrate the severity of the collision, the company may wish to retrieve
the bike quickly to remove this evidence. Police and legal advisor
necessary. Can you insist that the police prosecute?

Trevor

Ernst Noch said...

Just remember that the insurance company doesn't want to push something
like principles in any way, what they are doing is balancing the cost of
handling your case against the money they might save when paying you.
Think of bargaining at a bazaar.
And always keep in mind that you have a right to get out of this with as
little material damage as possible, which also involves time you might
have to invest looking for a new bike and handling the old one.

The adjuster said they wouldn't pay for any miscellaneous expenses, loss
of use of the bike, gas money, or my time wasted. A lawyer gave me a
freebie consultation over the phone and he said I was entitled to such
expenses. I guess I will have to seek more legal advice.

Oh, and maybe do not crosspost next time (I did now because I have no
idea where you might read an answer).

Hey, Sorni, you listening?

Threeducks said...

Salvage value is about $50. Sure you could part it out and sell bits
and pieces on Ebay, but after you figure in time spent at $XX/hour,
you'll be right back at $50 net.

You probably aren't far from wrong, but I will offer them a couple
hundred assuming they don't torque me off so much that I end up doing
all my negotiating through a lawyer.

SuperSlinky wrote:

A civil suit would likely go nowhere with the driver. She was
twenty-something and driving a 10 year old car. Remember
that even if you get a judgement, it doesn't mean you ever
get paid anything. It will just go on their credit report, and
that too will eventually disappear. Besides, I'm not out to
destroy anyone. She had insurance and if they do their job,
the mess can be cleaned up as painlessly as possible for everyone.

I'm not criticizing your desire to settle, which is what I'd want to do
also, but I think your first sentence is wrong. If you sue the driver, her
insurance company will be obliged to defend the lawsuit and pay any
judgment you win (up to policy limits, which in Illinois will be plenty
for this case). That's the reason the insurer is offering to settle now.
Its duty is to defend the driver and pay damages on her behalf, and it
will settle if that appears less expensive and less risky than waiting for
you to sue. If you didn't have a reasonable chance at winning significant
damages in a civil lawsuit, the insurer wouldn't be offering you money.
You don't have to worry about collecting the judgment if you win.

--
Paul Turner

"Baird Webel" wrote: (click) It's probably more likely that you would be
judged at fault for not having a light even if there was plenty of light
from street lights (click)
^^^^^^^^^^^^
He was so rattled, as you say, that he left without even picking up his
spilled cards. I would be amazed if he even remembers whether you had a
light, or even knows the question exists. I'd say he owes you a wheel, and
you can probably get it. If I were in his position, I'd be rattled all over
again, finding out that the victim has tracked me down, and I'd be relieved
to get off that easy.

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"Baird Webel" wrote: (click) It's probably more likely that you would be
judged at fault for not having a light even if there was plenty of light
from street lights (click)
^^^^^^^^^^^^
He was so rattled, as you say, that he left without even picking up his
spilled cards. I would be amazed if he even remembers whether you had a
light, or even knows the question exists. I'd say he owes you a wheel,
and
you can probably get it. If I were in his position, I'd be rattled all
over
again, finding out that the victim has tracked me down, and I'd be
relieved
to get off that easy.


Is that the honorable way to handle the situation?