Apology

On Fri, 1 May 2020 16:31:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 5:41:00 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/29/2020 5:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:12:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:20 AM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 21:46:27 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/28/2020 9:12 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:50:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/28/2020 6:26 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:58:18 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/27/2020 9:18 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:33:26 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/27/2020 8:16 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 3:57:36 PM UTC-7, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 17:09:18 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

Now that truth and data have no meaning, deaths by anything
where the Wuhan virus is either present or suspected is
called a death by the Chinese virus. Oh, that helps
epidemiology a lot.

And in counting up the cost, are we going to include the people who
died because they were afraid to go to the emergeny room, or because
"elective" surgery turned out to be a bit more urgent than was
thought?

Not to mention that poverty kills.

The shortage of data-gathering equipment is going to cost us dearly
when the next SARS epidemic starts to spread.

I am a great deal more concerned at the method they are using to collect
data. Only "confirmed" cases are considered as the dividend and anyone
that even had the symptoms of what might have been unconfirmed covid-19 is the divisor.

This results in showing a couple orders of magnitude higher mortality
rate than is actually the case. Then THIS is used to frighten people into
giving up their Constitutional Rights. If any of this continues, the Deep
State as exemplified by Fauci are going to discover that they are the
targets of a new civil war.


So let’s measure the impact of COVID-19 a different way.
https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-...3-e239799fa6ab



Also published today (paywall, here's a summary. Note chart):

https://techstartups.com/2020/04/27/...new-data-show/

Curiouser and curiouser.

On the other hand a comparison of Thailand, which has taken very
aggressive action, very quickly, including closing the country,
restricting travel inside the country, closing all but essential
stores, banning groups, establishing a curfew and even stopping the
sale of alcoholic beverages, with a population of ~69 million has 2931
cases and 52 deaths. Cases/million are 42 and deaths/million are less
than 1.

While California, for example, with ~45.5 million population has
45,006 cases and 1,776 deaths, cases/million - 1137 and deaths/million
are 44.

First case identified in Thailand was 26 Jan, first case in California
was 2 Feb.

It is apparent that lock down, at least as done in Thailand does work.

I'm not dissing the Thai government.

People all over the world are flailing because no one
actually knows what to do, how intensely or for how long and
there's increasing resistance to destroying lives,
livelihoods and wealth (personal and national) for theories
which haven't been proved.

My takeaway from the Rodgers study is that there's no
correlation. There are many and varied measures with many
and varied outcomes but there's no correlation between
imposed suffering and positive outcomes.

I'm happy for you and for Thais generally but you can't say
A caused B yet.

Feel free to dis the Thais all you want. It is not a perfect country .

But so far, the countries that reacted in a timely manner and invoked
regulations to keep individuals separated have had levels of success
in limiting the virus far greater than countries that didn't.

Here, not that it is better but rather that virus cases are reported
in the daily news in detail, it is obvious that person to person
contact is the primary way that the virus spreads so separation
appears to be the most successful solution found so far.

Along that line my wife made her quarterly visit to the hospital,
blood tests, checkup, etc., and when I asked "what did the doctor say"
she replied the with everyone wearing masks and sitting 2 meters
apart it was pretty hard to hear the doctor :-)


When you write, "countries that reacted in a timely manner
and invoked regulations to keep individuals separated have
had levels of success in limiting the virus far greater than
countries that didn't." it's clear you did not see the
chart nor read the text in the link above.

When I wrote 'there's no correlation' i meant that there
isn't any correlation. Suffering and outcome are more random
than ordered.

Here's the chart again:
https://techstartups.com/wp-content/...er-million.jpg

Yes, I looked at the chart. and I read the article too :-) But the guy
seems to be disregarding some things as he reports about New York
probably would have benefited from a lockdown while his home state,
Wisconsin, might not benefit.

I might comment that part of my comment was "keep individuals
separated which in a rather rural state such as Wisconsin, may well
be a part of the normal environment. He also seems to mention Sweden
as an example of something or another. From what I read Sweden did not
have a lockdown and has a cases/million figure of 1,943 - slightly
higher than Germany and a death/million of 233.

New York which the bloke mentions has a case/million of 15,127 and a
death/million of 1,184. Wisconsin has a case/million of 1,081 and a
death/million of 51

And Thailand, with its rather draconian lockdown has a case/million of
42 and a death/million of 0.8

While I can't comment on what actually happened in the U.S. I can
speculate a bit as both Thailand and the Philippines ( a good friend
is there now) had/have rather severe lockdowns and the Philippines has
a case/m of 73 and death/m of 5.

By the way, the friend in the Philippines sailed in and anchored in a
bay and the health people came around early the next morning and
ordered him to move to another bay where he was quarantined on his
boat for 2 weeks before he could go ashore. Now he can go ashore and
is riding around on his folding bicycle and tells me that about 5 km
down the road there is a health check point that stops and checks you
before you can ride further.

--
cheers,

John B.


Right, outcomes don't match the punishments. In my paper
today, Japan (which invoked no lockdown) announced its new
case rate has dropped significantly.

Japanese law does not give the government the authority for a city
wide lockdown. Individual can be quarantined but officials cannot
restrict the movement of people.

On 7 April, the P.M. proclaimed a one-month state of emergency from 8
April to 6 May for Tokyo and the prefectures of Kanagawa, Saitama,
Chiba, Osaka, Hyogo and Fukuoka. He stated that the number of patients
would peak in two weeks if the number of person-to-person contacts was
reduced by 70 to 80 percent, and urged the public to stay at home to
achieve this goal.

On 10 April, the closure of six categories of businesses in Tokyo.
They include amusement facilities, universities and cram schools,
sports and recreation facilities, theatres, event and exhibition
venues. and commercial facilities. Restaurants were to limit opening
hours between 5 a.m. and 8 p.m. and to stop serving alcohol at 7 p.m.
There were promised government subsidies for businesses that
cooperated with it.

I don't know. But a simple "we had to kill people to keep
them from dying" is not a clear justifiable case to me.

Well, just keep on chugging along. After all the U.S. already has the
greatest number of virus cases, and the greatest number of virus
deaths, in the world. From 15 Feb to 15 Apr the U.S. had diagnosed
some 652,474 virus cases. From 15 Apr to 28 Apr that number had
increased by 383,291.
--
cheers,

John B.


It's the rate not the number. ****ant commies in South
America keep harping on Brasil's numbers but it's a nation
of some 200 million+ souls whose rate is not exceptional
despite scary big numbers.

Of course it is the rate and not simply the number but the "rate of
increase" should tell you something - roughly a 50% increase in
numbers in 13 days .

Some other statistics that might be of interest: In the U.S., of the
total 206,579 cases that have been "closed" or ended, whether by
recovery or by death, some 70% have recovered and 30% (61,190) have
died.
--
cheers,

John B.


Adding up unrelated anecdotes isn't data and this is a case
of that. Any death where the Wuhan Virus _may_ be present is
counted as a Wuhan Virus death even if there's another
obvious proximate cause (car crash, heart attack, etc). I
heard this woman explain her policy on the radio here's a link:

https://www.conservativereview.com/n...ovid-19-death/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Many, many doctors have been saying this and noting that they have been ordered from their managers to mark ANYTHING involving a death to a person covid-19 positive as a covid-19 death. This is running the death tolls up as heavily as possible. A interviewed nurse had two patients die in the middle of night shift and the attending doctors assigned the deaths to their actual reasons. In the morning they were order by the hospital administration to erase that and change it to covid-19. Why is this being done?

And you know this how? You were hiding in the closet when the doctors
were ordered to change their death certificates? A little bird
whispered it in your ear?

Or this is just another of your lies?
--
cheers,

John B.

On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 5:38:39 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/1/2020 6:22 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 12:47:30 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

Well, a declaration of emergency has many effects, mostly fiscal -- and depending on the nature of the emergency, suspension of habeas corpus. And you need to read a few more Amendments, like the 14th Amendment. Most, but not all, of the Bill of Rights applies to the states. And civil rights were never absolute, except in peoples' minds.

From the time of 9/11, the government has ended the 14th Amendment. FISA courts do nothing more than sashay around the reality that our rights have being trampled each and every day. And mark my words - there will be a reckoning.


what ever makes you think that, against all evidence?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The 14th amendment protects us from undue search and seizure. But that is no longer the case. ALL of your communications on any media is now recorded and available with a warrant to the FISA courts. And as we've seen, the courts haven't required any real proof that such 14th amendment protections are of the slightest importance to them.

So what is this evidence that you think that what you say on any media in any way meets the level of the 14th?

On 5/2/2020 2:20 PM, wrote:
On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 5:38:39 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/1/2020 6:22 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 12:47:30 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

Well, a declaration of emergency has many effects, mostly fiscal -- and depending on the nature of the emergency, suspension of habeas corpus. And you need to read a few more Amendments, like the 14th Amendment. Most, but not all, of the Bill of Rights applies to the states. And civil rights were never absolute, except in peoples' minds.

From the time of 9/11, the government has ended the 14th Amendment. FISA courts do nothing more than sashay around the reality that our rights have being trampled each and every day. And mark my words - there will be a reckoning.


what ever makes you think that, against all evidence?


The 14th amendment protects us from undue search and seizure. But that is no longer the case. ALL of your communications on any media is now recorded and available with a warrant to the FISA courts. And as we've seen, the courts haven't required any real proof that such 14th amendment protections are of the slightest importance to them.

So what is this evidence that you think that what you say on any media in any way meets the level of the 14th?


A reckoning for Richard Jewel? A reckoning for Carter Page?
A reckoning for Gen Flynn? A reckoning for Steven Hatfill?

Don't hold your breath. They protect their own. The very
mention of impartial justice might get you on The List.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 12:21:01 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 5:38:39 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/1/2020 6:22 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 12:47:30 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

Well, a declaration of emergency has many effects, mostly fiscal -- and depending on the nature of the emergency, suspension of habeas corpus. And you need to read a few more Amendments, like the 14th Amendment. Most, but not all, of the Bill of Rights applies to the states. And civil rights were never absolute, except in peoples' minds.

From the time of 9/11, the government has ended the 14th Amendment. FISA courts do nothing more than sashay around the reality that our rights have being trampled each and every day. And mark my words - there will be a reckoning.


what ever makes you think that, against all evidence?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The 14th amendment protects us from undue search and seizure. But that is no longer the case. ALL of your communications on any media is now recorded and available with a warrant to the FISA courts. And as we've seen, the courts haven't required any real proof that such 14th amendment protections are of the slightest importance to them.

So what is this evidence that you think that what you say on any media in any way meets the level of the 14th?

Uh, if you're talking about the federal government, its the Fourth Amendment:

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

You also need to read FISA. Start here for the easy-reader version. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreig...rveillance_Act

Every day and every night, judges read and grant or deny warrant applications. I'm sure that the taps on your phones are entirely authorized.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 12:26:55 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/2/2020 2:20 PM, wrote:
On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 5:38:39 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/1/2020 6:22 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 12:47:30 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

Well, a declaration of emergency has many effects, mostly fiscal -- and depending on the nature of the emergency, suspension of habeas corpus. And you need to read a few more Amendments, like the 14th Amendment. Most, but not all, of the Bill of Rights applies to the states. And civil rights were never absolute, except in peoples' minds.

From the time of 9/11, the government has ended the 14th Amendment. FISA courts do nothing more than sashay around the reality that our rights have being trampled each and every day. And mark my words - there will be a reckoning.


what ever makes you think that, against all evidence?


The 14th amendment protects us from undue search and seizure. But that is no longer the case. ALL of your communications on any media is now recorded and available with a warrant to the FISA courts. And as we've seen, the courts haven't required any real proof that such 14th amendment protections are of the slightest importance to them.

So what is this evidence that you think that what you say on any media in any way meets the level of the 14th?


A reckoning for Richard Jewel? A reckoning for Carter Page?
A reckoning for Gen Flynn? A reckoning for Steven Hatfill?

Don't hold your breath. They protect their own. The very
mention of impartial justice might get you on The List.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Go fish. Starting at the end, Hatfill got a $5M payout of taxpayer moneys, retractions, and other lawsuit pay-outs. It's not like thee poor victims went uncompensated. Jewel filed about a zillion lawsuits, and god only knows how much he made -- the Governor even commended him. He was parade grand marshal, etc., etc.

If you want to emote about the falsely accused, start with the ones who were executed or imprisoned for life based on bad evidence -- not the ones who were never convicted, who were publicly exonerated and made bundles off lawsuits.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 5/2/2020 3:06 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 12:26:55 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/2/2020 2:20 PM, wrote:
On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 5:38:39 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/1/2020 6:22 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 12:47:30 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

Well, a declaration of emergency has many effects, mostly fiscal -- and depending on the nature of the emergency, suspension of habeas corpus. And you need to read a few more Amendments, like the 14th Amendment. Most, but not all, of the Bill of Rights applies to the states. And civil rights were never absolute, except in peoples' minds.

From the time of 9/11, the government has ended the 14th Amendment. FISA courts do nothing more than sashay around the reality that our rights have being trampled each and every day. And mark my words - there will be a reckoning.


what ever makes you think that, against all evidence?


The 14th amendment protects us from undue search and seizure. But that is no longer the case. ALL of your communications on any media is now recorded and available with a warrant to the FISA courts. And as we've seen, the courts haven't required any real proof that such 14th amendment protections are of the slightest importance to them.

So what is this evidence that you think that what you say on any media in any way meets the level of the 14th?


A reckoning for Richard Jewel? A reckoning for Carter Page?
A reckoning for Gen Flynn? A reckoning for Steven Hatfill?

Don't hold your breath. They protect their own. The very
mention of impartial justice might get you on The List.


Go fish. Starting at the end, Hatfill got a $5M payout of taxpayer moneys, retractions, and other lawsuit pay-outs. It's not like thee poor victims went uncompensated. Jewel filed about a zillion lawsuits, and god only knows how much he made -- the Governor even commended him. He was parade grand marshal, etc., etc.

If you want to emote about the falsely accused, start with the ones who were executed or imprisoned for life based on bad evidence -- not the ones who were never convicted, who were publicly exonerated and made bundles off lawsuits.

-- Jay Beattie.


Agreed.

I'm a long and vocal critic, whether it was from ineptitude
or malice. It's the defining issue for capital punishment in
that the incidence of wrongful convictions is way too high
to ignore.

As with high profile cases I mentioned, victims may be
compensated but the perpetrators, again whether inept or
malicious, always go scot free.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 1:06:52 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 12:26:55 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/2/2020 2:20 PM, wrote:
On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 5:38:39 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/1/2020 6:22 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 12:47:30 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

Well, a declaration of emergency has many effects, mostly fiscal -- and depending on the nature of the emergency, suspension of habeas corpus.. And you need to read a few more Amendments, like the 14th Amendment. Most, but not all, of the Bill of Rights applies to the states. And civil rights were never absolute, except in peoples' minds.

From the time of 9/11, the government has ended the 14th Amendment. FISA courts do nothing more than sashay around the reality that our rights have being trampled each and every day. And mark my words - there will be a reckoning.


what ever makes you think that, against all evidence?


The 14th amendment protects us from undue search and seizure. But that is no longer the case. ALL of your communications on any media is now recorded and available with a warrant to the FISA courts. And as we've seen, the courts haven't required any real proof that such 14th amendment protections are of the slightest importance to them.

So what is this evidence that you think that what you say on any media in any way meets the level of the 14th?


A reckoning for Richard Jewel? A reckoning for Carter Page?
A reckoning for Gen Flynn? A reckoning for Steven Hatfill?

Don't hold your breath. They protect their own. The very
mention of impartial justice might get you on The List.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Go fish. Starting at the end, Hatfill got a $5M payout of taxpayer moneys, retractions, and other lawsuit pay-outs. It's not like thee poor victims went uncompensated. Jewel filed about a zillion lawsuits, and god only knows how much he made -- the Governor even commended him. He was parade grand marshal, etc., etc.

If you want to emote about the falsely accused, start with the ones who were executed or imprisoned for life based on bad evidence -- not the ones who were never convicted, who were publicly exonerated and made bundles off lawsuits.

-- Jay Beattie.

Well, it is my opinion, if you do not severely punish those who quite purposely make scape goats you are simply asking for more of the same.