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New (stolen) tech?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 8th 20, 02:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,153
Default New (stolen) tech?

Possibly a year ago a mate and I had a conversation about the
possibility of making an electronic gear change actuator that could
effectively replace down tube shifters and operate on regular Bowden
cable operated derailleurs. I even looked up some small linear
actuators that I thought would have an appropriate motion range and pull
force.

A couple of days ago my mate sent me this link.

https://cell-cycling.com/

Very close to what we had discussed!

--
JS
Ads
  #2  
Old June 8th 20, 07:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default New (stolen) tech?

On Sun, 07 Jun 2020 21:02:46 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 11:34:47 +1000, James
wrote:

Possibly a year ago a mate and I had a conversation about the
possibility of making an electronic gear change actuator that could
effectively replace down tube shifters and operate on regular Bowden
cable operated derailleurs. I even looked up some small linear
actuators that I thought would have an appropriate motion range and pull
force.

A couple of days ago my mate sent me this link.

https://cell-cycling.com/

Very close to what we had discussed!


So, improve on the basic design by adding a microprocessor to do self
calibration. Add a tachometer or shaft encoder to the rear wheel to
detect rotational speed or when it shifts. It can be temporarily
attached as it's only needed to calibrate the shifter. Life the rear
end off the ground, spin the crank by hand, and punch the self
calibrate button. The bicycle will go up and down the various
freewheel gears to set the optimum shift point. Then, do it again for
the each chainring gear since the freewheel shift points are slightly
different for each chainring gear. Control everything via Bluetooth
from a smart phone.

Extra credit for replacing the cable and rear derailleur with a 2 axis
linear and rotary actuator. While the existing cable and derailleur
parallelogram is probably the minimum cost and weight solution, it has
the disadvantage of only working for one size freewheel (for both
number of gears and spacing). When both the extension length (linear
actuator) and angle relative to the rear axle (rotary actuator) are
adjustable, then any size freewheel can be accommodated.



Add a torque meter and you could have a real automatic transmission.
just keep pedaling at, say, 250 watts and the bike will always be in
the appropriate gear :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #3  
Old June 8th 20, 08:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default New (stolen) tech?

On Mon, 08 Jun 2020 11:34:47 +1000, James wrote:

Possibly a year ago a mate and I had a conversation about the
possibility of making an electronic gear change actuator that could
effectively replace down tube shifters and operate on regular Bowden
cable operated derailleurs. I even looked up some small linear
actuators that I thought would have an appropriate motion range and pull
force.

A couple of days ago my mate sent me this link.

https://cell-cycling.com/

Very close to what we had discussed!


Lol, as if you are not the first person to explore that idea.
BTW, you were not so silly to "discuss" it via the internet were you?
Tech theft claims have been around for decades since since DARPA &
Fidonet days to my knowledge.

  #4  
Old June 8th 20, 04:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default New (stolen) tech?

On 6/8/2020 12:02 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 11:34:47 +1000, James
wrote:

Possibly a year ago a mate and I had a conversation about the
possibility of making an electronic gear change actuator that could
effectively replace down tube shifters and operate on regular Bowden
cable operated derailleurs. I even looked up some small linear
actuators that I thought would have an appropriate motion range and pull
force.

A couple of days ago my mate sent me this link.

https://cell-cycling.com/

Very close to what we had discussed!


So, improve on the basic design by adding a microprocessor to do self
calibration. Add a tachometer or shaft encoder to the rear wheel to
detect rotational speed or when it shifts. It can be temporarily
attached as it's only needed to calibrate the shifter. Life the rear
end off the ground, spin the crank by hand, and punch the self
calibrate button. The bicycle will go up and down the various
freewheel gears to set the optimum shift point. Then, do it again for
the each chainring gear since the freewheel shift points are slightly
different for each chainring gear. Control everything via Bluetooth
from a smart phone.

Extra credit for replacing the cable and rear derailleur with a 2 axis
linear and rotary actuator. While the existing cable and derailleur
parallelogram is probably the minimum cost and weight solution, it has
the disadvantage of only working for one size freewheel (for both
number of gears and spacing). When both the extension length (linear
actuator) and angle relative to the rear axle (rotary actuator) are
adjustable, then any size freewheel can be accommodated.


So will that will be Di3?


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #5  
Old June 8th 20, 06:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default New (stolen) tech?

On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 5:03:05 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 11:34:47 +1000, James
wrote:

Possibly a year ago a mate and I had a conversation about the
possibility of making an electronic gear change actuator that could
effectively replace down tube shifters and operate on regular Bowden
cable operated derailleurs. I even looked up some small linear
actuators that I thought would have an appropriate motion range and pull
force.

A couple of days ago my mate sent me this link.

https://cell-cycling.com/

Very close to what we had discussed!


So, improve on the basic design by adding a microprocessor to do self
calibration. Add a tachometer or shaft encoder to the rear wheel to
detect rotational speed or when it shifts. It can be temporarily
attached as it's only needed to calibrate the shifter. Life the rear
end off the ground, spin the crank by hand, and punch the self
calibrate button. The bicycle will go up and down the various
freewheel gears to set the optimum shift point. Then, do it again for
the each chainring gear since the freewheel shift points are slightly
different for each chainring gear. Control everything via Bluetooth
from a smart phone.

Extra credit for replacing the cable and rear derailleur with a 2 axis
linear and rotary actuator. While the existing cable and derailleur
parallelogram is probably the minimum cost and weight solution, it has
the disadvantage of only working for one size freewheel (for both
number of gears and spacing). When both the extension length (linear
actuator) and angle relative to the rear axle (rotary actuator) are
adjustable, then any size freewheel can be accommodated.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


It's been commercially tried and, as far as I know, failed in the market. By Australians, too.
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....76281#msg76281

I once sketched out a purely mechanical system with an up-down lever or two spring-loaded buttons to change sequential gears as on the Rohloff but now can't find the drawings on the net, though I have the sketchbook in which I first made the sketches in pencil.

Andre Jute
Nothing on earth so novel someone else didn't think of it first
  #6  
Old June 8th 20, 06:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 884
Default New (stolen) tech?

On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 10:17:41 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 5:03:05 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 11:34:47 +1000, James
wrote:

Possibly a year ago a mate and I had a conversation about the
possibility of making an electronic gear change actuator that could
effectively replace down tube shifters and operate on regular Bowden
cable operated derailleurs. I even looked up some small linear
actuators that I thought would have an appropriate motion range and pull
force.

A couple of days ago my mate sent me this link.

https://cell-cycling.com/

Very close to what we had discussed!


So, improve on the basic design by adding a microprocessor to do self
calibration. Add a tachometer or shaft encoder to the rear wheel to
detect rotational speed or when it shifts. It can be temporarily
attached as it's only needed to calibrate the shifter. Life the rear
end off the ground, spin the crank by hand, and punch the self
calibrate button. The bicycle will go up and down the various
freewheel gears to set the optimum shift point. Then, do it again for
the each chainring gear since the freewheel shift points are slightly
different for each chainring gear. Control everything via Bluetooth
from a smart phone.

Extra credit for replacing the cable and rear derailleur with a 2 axis
linear and rotary actuator. While the existing cable and derailleur
parallelogram is probably the minimum cost and weight solution, it has
the disadvantage of only working for one size freewheel (for both
number of gears and spacing). When both the extension length (linear
actuator) and angle relative to the rear axle (rotary actuator) are
adjustable, then any size freewheel can be accommodated.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


It's been commercially tried and, as far as I know, failed in the market. By Australians, too.
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....76281#msg76281

I once sketched out a purely mechanical system with an up-down lever or two spring-loaded buttons to change sequential gears as on the Rohloff but now can't find the drawings on the net, though I have the sketchbook in which I first made the sketches in pencil.

Andre Jute
Nothing on earth so novel someone else didn't think of it first


I still believe the more perfect choice would be hydraulic since it would be so close to a cable operated mechanism without the cable drag. That would allow the return springs to be a lot lighter. And you could make the front derailleur more highly adjustable like a lower price Campy lever so that you could perfectly alight the derailleur with the chain.
  #7  
Old June 8th 20, 06:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default New (stolen) tech?

On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 4:40:54 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/8/2020 12:02 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 11:34:47 +1000, James
wrote:

Possibly a year ago a mate and I had a conversation about the
possibility of making an electronic gear change actuator that could
effectively replace down tube shifters and operate on regular Bowden
cable operated derailleurs. I even looked up some small linear
actuators that I thought would have an appropriate motion range and pull
force.

A couple of days ago my mate sent me this link.

https://cell-cycling.com/

Very close to what we had discussed!


So, improve on the basic design by adding a microprocessor to do self
calibration. Add a tachometer or shaft encoder to the rear wheel to
detect rotational speed or when it shifts. It can be temporarily
attached as it's only needed to calibrate the shifter. Life the rear
end off the ground, spin the crank by hand, and punch the self
calibrate button. The bicycle will go up and down the various
freewheel gears to set the optimum shift point. Then, do it again for
the each chainring gear since the freewheel shift points are slightly
different for each chainring gear. Control everything via Bluetooth
from a smart phone.

Extra credit for replacing the cable and rear derailleur with a 2 axis
linear and rotary actuator. While the existing cable and derailleur
parallelogram is probably the minimum cost and weight solution, it has
the disadvantage of only working for one size freewheel (for both
number of gears and spacing). When both the extension length (linear
actuator) and angle relative to the rear axle (rotary actuator) are
adjustable, then any size freewheel can be accommodated.


So will that will be Di3?
--
- Frank Krygowski


Nah. The current DuraAce Di2 is a cut-down version of the first Di2, often but unofficially called "Smover", which was full-auto and even included active electronically controlled suspension:
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html
Di1, a nomenclature never used in public by Shimano, was a 3-speed, later 5-speed, full auto gearbox from Shimano in the 1990's. So a new DiX would have to be numbered at least Di4 and probably even Di6.

Andre Jute
How does anyone get so far behind?
  #8  
Old June 8th 20, 06:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default New (stolen) tech?

On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 6:23:46 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 10:17:41 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 5:03:05 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 11:34:47 +1000, James
wrote:

Possibly a year ago a mate and I had a conversation about the
possibility of making an electronic gear change actuator that could
effectively replace down tube shifters and operate on regular Bowden
cable operated derailleurs. I even looked up some small linear
actuators that I thought would have an appropriate motion range and pull
force.

A couple of days ago my mate sent me this link.

https://cell-cycling.com/

Very close to what we had discussed!

So, improve on the basic design by adding a microprocessor to do self
calibration. Add a tachometer or shaft encoder to the rear wheel to
detect rotational speed or when it shifts. It can be temporarily
attached as it's only needed to calibrate the shifter. Life the rear
end off the ground, spin the crank by hand, and punch the self
calibrate button. The bicycle will go up and down the various
freewheel gears to set the optimum shift point. Then, do it again for
the each chainring gear since the freewheel shift points are slightly
different for each chainring gear. Control everything via Bluetooth
from a smart phone.

Extra credit for replacing the cable and rear derailleur with a 2 axis
linear and rotary actuator. While the existing cable and derailleur
parallelogram is probably the minimum cost and weight solution, it has
the disadvantage of only working for one size freewheel (for both
number of gears and spacing). When both the extension length (linear
actuator) and angle relative to the rear axle (rotary actuator) are
adjustable, then any size freewheel can be accommodated.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


It's been commercially tried and, as far as I know, failed in the market. By Australians, too.
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....76281#msg76281

I once sketched out a purely mechanical system with an up-down lever or two spring-loaded buttons to change sequential gears as on the Rohloff but now can't find the drawings on the net, though I have the sketchbook in which I first made the sketches in pencil.

Andre Jute
Nothing on earth so novel someone else didn't think of it first


I still believe the more perfect choice would be hydraulic since it would be so close to a cable operated mechanism without the cable drag. That would allow the return springs to be a lot lighter. And you could make the front derailleur more highly adjustable like a lower price Campy lever so that you could perfectly alight the derailleur with the chain.


I take your point but my spring loaded cable-operated system was sketched out in response to a discussion of using the twin-cable pull-pull Rohloff gear change and just replacing the rotary ex-factory control which is a pain to fit to drop handlebars. Hydraulics would have added an additional layer of complication and stuff to find space.

Andre Jute
Baby steps
 




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