Bicycle Commuting on the Rise (BSOs on the Rise)

In article ,
Tom Sherman writes:
Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
Tom Sherman writes:
Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
Tom Sherman writes:

Maybe what I need for winter riding is a custom made stainless steel
frame. Stainless (until you get to exotic materials such as Reynolds
953) is not used much for bicycles due to its lower strength compared to
chromium-molybdenum and molybdenum-manganese alloys, but for a winter
bike weight is less important.
I don't know fer sher, but I have this nagging gut feeling
that certain nickel alloys exist, that would make an handsome,
durable and shiny-metal-opulent bicycle frame.

Might weigh a ton(?) but it sher would be pretty.

A nickel frame might at least be an interesting conversation piece.

There are exotic "superalloys" that are primarily nickel and iron used
for applications such turbine blades. Likely not a practical material to
make a bicycle from.

Nickel plating a chrome-moly bicycle is a bad idea from a corrosion
protection standpoint.

Nickel is hardly exotic.

I guess there are reasons it hasn't been heretofore used
to any extent in bike frames.

Well, nickel has a higher density than steel, but less that half the
tensile strength of even a low cost steel such as 1018 (plain carbon
steel) that has been used for inexpensive bicycle. Nickel also has a
stiffness to weight of less than one-third of steel. So a nickel frame
would end up weighing about 3 times as much as a low-end steel frame,
and 5 to 6 times as much as a high strength steel frame.

I'm not talking about purely nickel frames. I still have
this nagging notion that there exists some nickel-based alloy
that would do the trick in harsher climates.

Nickel plating is much prettier than chrome plating.

Not on the bike I had, where rust spots appeared at the pinholes in the
plating.

In fact AIUI, chrome plating often sits upon a
substrate of nickel plating.

But I'm not talking about nickel-plated chromoly frames;
I'm talking about frame tubes consisting of some sort of
nickel alloy, down to the bone. I still have this nagging,
intuitive, gut feeling that it's do-able and viable.

I doubt it. Primarily nickel alloys are used where high temperature
creep is an issue, which does not pertain to cycling.

I never realized high temperature creep was so
pertinent to coinage.

I note how Canadian 5-cent nickels are so much more resilient
than their American counterparts, which appear to be some sort
of scantly nickel-plated bronze.

I still can't shake this intuitive "feeling" that there's some
sort of nickel alloy that would make a good, long-lasting bike
frame, whose trade-offs might include weight as well as other
unexpected stuff.



cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
Tom Sherman writes:
Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
Tom Sherman writes:
Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
Tom Sherman writes:
Maybe what I need for winter riding is a custom made stainless steel
frame. Stainless (until you get to exotic materials such as Reynolds
953) is not used much for bicycles due to its lower strength compared to
chromium-molybdenum and molybdenum-manganese alloys, but for a winter
bike weight is less important.
I don't know fer sher, but I have this nagging gut feeling
that certain nickel alloys exist, that would make an handsome,
durable and shiny-metal-opulent bicycle frame.

Might weigh a ton(?) but it sher would be pretty.

A nickel frame might at least be an interesting conversation piece.

There are exotic "superalloys" that are primarily nickel and iron used
for applications such turbine blades. Likely not a practical material to
make a bicycle from.

Nickel plating a chrome-moly bicycle is a bad idea from a corrosion
protection standpoint.
Nickel is hardly exotic.

I guess there are reasons it hasn't been heretofore used
to any extent in bike frames.

Well, nickel has a higher density than steel, but less that half the
tensile strength of even a low cost steel such as 1018 (plain carbon
steel) that has been used for inexpensive bicycle. Nickel also has a
stiffness to weight of less than one-third of steel. So a nickel frame
would end up weighing about 3 times as much as a low-end steel frame,
and 5 to 6 times as much as a high strength steel frame.

I'm not talking about purely nickel frames. I still have
this nagging notion that there exists some nickel-based alloy
that would do the trick in harsher climates.

Nickel plating is much prettier than chrome plating.

Not on the bike I had, where rust spots appeared at the pinholes in the
plating.

In fact AIUI, chrome plating often sits upon a
substrate of nickel plating.

But I'm not talking about nickel-plated chromoly frames;
I'm talking about frame tubes consisting of some sort of
nickel alloy, down to the bone. I still have this nagging,
intuitive, gut feeling that it's do-able and viable.

I doubt it. Primarily nickel alloys are used where high temperature
creep is an issue, which does not pertain to cycling.

I never realized high temperature creep was so
pertinent to coinage.

I note how Canadian 5-cent nickels are so much more resilient
than their American counterparts, which appear to be some sort
of scantly nickel-plated bronze.

I still can't shake this intuitive "feeling" that there's some
sort of nickel alloy that would make a good, long-lasting bike
frame, whose trade-offs might include weight as well as other
unexpected stuff.

Reynolds 953 is reportedly tubing made from Carpenter Custom 465:
http://cartech.ides.com/datasheet.aspx?i=102&e=55&c=techart. So
approximately 11% nickel and 12% chromium.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
snip

Reynolds 953 is reportedly tubing made from Carpenter Custom 465:
http://cartech.ides.com/datasheet.aspx?i=102&e=55&c=techart. So
approximately 11% nickel and 12% chromium.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

Bikes made with stainless steel tubing are nothing new. Back in the 1970s
several makers sold bikes with stainless tubing.

The Swedish bike maker Crescent made bikes that had 300 series stainless
tubing in the 3 main tubes. The forks and stays were chrome plated
Reynolds 531.

The Kabuki Submariner made in Japan by Bridgestone was built with
stainless tubing held together with cast aluminum "lugs". Good idea, bad
execution. They were sold for use near the ocean.

Carpenter Custom 465 is a Precipitation Hardening stainless steel which
means it can be hardened through heat treatment. Standard 300 (18/8 Inox)
series stainless steels can only be hardened through cold working.

PH stainless steels are frequently used in aerospace fasteners and other
highly stressed components. Unlike aerospace alloy steels like E4340, PH
stainless steels have much higher resistance to failure through cracking.

There are several sources for stainless lugs and other frame components.
Carpenter Custom 465 can be easily welded using electro arc methods but
they recommend against oxy-acetylene welding. There's no reference to
brazing.

I wonder how localized heating affects the strength of Carpenter Custom
465. In the fully annealed condition it's about the same as the fully
annealed strength of the alloy steels used in most quality frames.

An all titanium frame might be an easier solution to corrosion resistance.

Chas.

* * Chas wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
snip
Reynolds 953 is reportedly tubing made from Carpenter Custom 465:
http://cartech.ides.com/datasheet.aspx?i=102&e=55&c=techart. So
approximately 11% nickel and 12% chromium.

Bikes made with stainless steel tubing are nothing new. Back in the 1970s
several makers sold bikes with stainless tubing.

The Swedish bike maker Crescent made bikes that had 300 series stainless
tubing in the 3 main tubes. The forks and stays were chrome plated
Reynolds 531.

The Kabuki Submariner made in Japan by Bridgestone was built with
stainless tubing held together with cast aluminum "lugs". Good idea, bad
execution. They were sold for use near the ocean.

Carpenter Custom 465 is a Precipitation Hardening stainless steel which
means it can be hardened through heat treatment. Standard 300 (18/8 Inox)
series stainless steels can only be hardened through cold working.

PH stainless steels are frequently used in aerospace fasteners and other
highly stressed components. Unlike aerospace alloy steels like E4340, PH
stainless steels have much higher resistance to failure through cracking.

There are several sources for stainless lugs and other frame components.
Carpenter Custom 465 can be easily welded using electro arc methods but
they recommend against oxy-acetylene welding. There's no reference to
brazing.

Waterford has made some lugged/brazed Reynolds 953 frames.

I wonder how localized heating affects the strength of Carpenter Custom
465. In the fully annealed condition it's about the same as the fully
annealed strength of the alloy steels used in most quality frames.

The above mentioned Waterfords were brazed to avoid post-welding heat
treatment of the frames.

An all titanium frame might be an easier solution to corrosion resistance.

Probably about the same cost and weight with higher corrosion resistance.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
Tom Sherman writes:
Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
Tom Sherman writes:
Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
Tom Sherman writes:
Maybe what I need for winter riding is a custom made stainless steel
frame. Stainless (until you get to exotic materials such as Reynolds
953) is not used much for bicycles due to its lower strength compared to
chromium-molybdenum and molybdenum-manganese alloys, but for a winter
bike weight is less important.
I don't know fer sher, but I have this nagging gut feeling
that certain nickel alloys exist, that would make an handsome,
durable and shiny-metal-opulent bicycle frame.

Might weigh a ton(?) but it sher would be pretty.

A nickel frame might at least be an interesting conversation piece.

There are exotic "superalloys" that are primarily nickel and iron used
for applications such turbine blades. Likely not a practical material to
make a bicycle from.

Nickel plating a chrome-moly bicycle is a bad idea from a corrosion
protection standpoint.
Nickel is hardly exotic.

I guess there are reasons it hasn't been heretofore used
to any extent in bike frames.

Well, nickel has a higher density than steel, but less that half the
tensile strength of even a low cost steel such as 1018 (plain carbon
steel) that has been used for inexpensive bicycle. Nickel also has a
stiffness to weight of less than one-third of steel. So a nickel frame
would end up weighing about 3 times as much as a low-end steel frame,
and 5 to 6 times as much as a high strength steel frame.

I'm not talking about purely nickel frames. I still have
this nagging notion that there exists some nickel-based alloy
that would do the trick in harsher climates.

Nickel plating is much prettier than chrome plating.

Not on the bike I had, where rust spots appeared at the pinholes in the
plating.

In fact AIUI, chrome plating often sits upon a
substrate of nickel plating.

But I'm not talking about nickel-plated chromoly frames;
I'm talking about frame tubes consisting of some sort of
nickel alloy, down to the bone. I still have this nagging,
intuitive, gut feeling that it's do-able and viable.

I doubt it. Primarily nickel alloys are used where high temperature
creep is an issue, which does not pertain to cycling.

I never realized high temperature creep was so
pertinent to coinage.

it's not, but corrosion resistance is.



I note how Canadian 5-cent nickels are so much more resilient
than their American counterparts, which appear to be some sort
of scantly nickel-plated bronze.

rather than just guessing, why don't you avail yourself of your internet
connection and look it up?



I still can't shake this intuitive "feeling"

jeepers.


that there's some
sort of nickel alloy that would make a good, long-lasting bike
frame, whose trade-offs might include weight as well as other
unexpected stuff.

there is indeed a good long lasting bike frame material with corrosion
resistance, no weight penalty and considerable price benefit - 7005.
you should try it some time.