A new invention to gain a lomger power stroke. (Krankups)

Gentlemen and lady's
For the life of me I cannot find a way to have riders understand how Krankups work. I have a video on Kickstarter showing how my rotating pedal adaptors give you a longer power stroke making it easer to pedal. We have had many riders (700 miles total)try them out with all agreeing how well they work and wanting to buy them. Yet the viewers don't understand well enough to make a donation.
Most reply's came back asking for tech results with a power meter. Being an engineer I researched power meters. What I found surprised me. Power meters do not make it easer to pedal, they encourage you to pedal harder and faster, period. How they calculate watts from the strain gauge in the pedal is beyond me, I asked a few makers to explain this to me, no reply's. I also went to several bike shops with power meter bikes to challenge and test with and without Krankups, they all refused.
So here I am in a catch 22. I have a well engineered lasting product that is the first pedaling improvement in years and can't get riders to understand them. I am open and will answer all emails for your input and suggestions.
Thank you
George Dukic

On 5/31/2016 11:16 AM, George Dukic wrote:
Gentlemen and lady's
For the life of me I cannot find a way to have riders understand how Krankups work. I have a video on Kickstarter showing how my rotating pedal adaptors give you a longer power stroke making it easer to pedal. We have had many riders (700 miles total)try them out with all agreeing how well they work and wanting to buy them. Yet the viewers don't understand well enough to make a donation.
Most reply's came back asking for tech results with a power meter. Being an engineer I researched power meters. What I found surprised me. Power meters do not make it easer to pedal, they encourage you to pedal harder and faster, period. How they calculate watts from the strain gauge in the pedal is beyond me, I asked a few makers to explain this to me, no reply's. I also went to several bike shops with power meter bikes to challenge and test with and without Krankups, they all refused.
So here I am in a catch 22. I have a well engineered lasting product that is the first pedaling improvement in years and can't get riders to understand them. I am open and will answer all emails for your input and suggestions.
Thank you
George Dukic



Short answer- I have no idea.

I found this:
http://krankups.com/

With no pictures, no drawings, no description.

I am a bit suspect of anything promising 'more power' that's
neither actual amphetamine nor a battery powered motor
system. Surprise me.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/31/2016 10:56 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/31/2016 11:16 AM, George Dukic wrote:
Gentlemen and lady's
For the life of me I cannot find a way to have riders understand
how Krankups work. I have a video on Kickstarter showing how my
rotating pedal adaptors give you a longer power stroke making it easer
to pedal. We have had many riders (700 miles total)try them out with
all agreeing how well they work and wanting to buy them. Yet the
viewers don't understand well enough to make a donation.
Most reply's came back asking for tech results with a power meter.
Being an engineer I researched power meters. What I found surprised
me. Power meters do not make it easer to pedal, they encourage you to
pedal harder and faster, period. How they calculate watts from the
strain gauge in the pedal is beyond me, I asked a few makers to
explain this to me, no reply's. I also went to several bike shops with
power meter bikes to challenge and test with and without Krankups,
they all refused.
So here I am in a catch 22. I have a well engineered lasting
product that is the first pedaling improvement in years and can't get
riders to understand them. I am open and will answer all emails for
your input and suggestions.
Thank you
George Dukic



Short answer- I have no idea.

I found this:
http://krankups.com/

With no pictures, no drawings, no description.

I am a bit suspect of anything promising 'more power' that's neither
actual amphetamine nor a battery powered motor system. Surprise me.

The device appears to try to do the same thing that oval chainrings did,
in evening out the power input over the 360 degree rotation of the crank.

Hooking up a crankset with a torque gauge, and graphing watts versus
power input would be the way to show the benefit. The average input
power versus the average output power won't change unless there is an
increase in efficiency provided by the device.

What is disturbing is "How they calculate watts from the strain gauge in
the pedal is beyond me," yet he says that he is an engineer. He can find
the equations he
http://www.wentec.com/unipower/calculators/power_torque.asp.

The other issue I see is that the pedals end up being extended out further.

I was hoping that bottom bracket strain-gauges would have become more
available but apparently the products that did come to market did not
succeed.

On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 1:56:35 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/31/2016 11:16 AM, George Dukic wrote:
Gentlemen and lady's
For the life of me I cannot find a way to have riders understand how Krankups work. I have a video on Kickstarter showing how my rotating pedal adaptors give you a longer power stroke making it easer to pedal. We have had many riders (700 miles total)try them out with all agreeing how well they work and wanting to buy them. Yet the viewers don't understand well enough to make a donation.
Most reply's came back asking for tech results with a power meter. Being an engineer I researched power meters. What I found surprised me. Power meters do not make it easer to pedal, they encourage you to pedal harder and faster, period. How they calculate watts from the strain gauge in the pedal is beyond me, I asked a few makers to explain this to me, no reply's. I also went to several bike shops with power meter bikes to challenge and test with and without Krankups, they all refused.
So here I am in a catch 22. I have a well engineered lasting product that is the first pedaling improvement in years and can't get riders to understand them. I am open and will answer all emails for your input and suggestions.
Thank you
George Dukic



Short answer- I have no idea.

I found this:
http://krankups.com/

With no pictures, no drawings, no description.

I am a bit suspect of anything promising 'more power' that's
neither actual amphetamine nor a battery powered motor
system. Surprise me.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

WELL, there's riding down MT Washington or Mt Hood.

On 01/06/16 02:16, George Dukic wrote:
Gentlemen and lady's For the life of me I cannot find a way to have
riders understand how Krankups work. I have a video on Kickstarter
showing how my rotating pedal adaptors give you a longer power stroke
making it easer to pedal. We have had many riders (700 miles
total)try them out with all agreeing how well they work and wanting
to buy them. Yet the viewers don't understand well enough to make a
donation. Most reply's came back asking for tech results with a power
meter. Being an engineer I researched power meters. What I found
surprised me. Power meters do not make it easer to pedal, they
encourage you to pedal harder and faster, period. How they calculate
watts from the strain gauge in the pedal is beyond me, I asked a few
makers to explain this to me, no reply's. I also went to several bike
shops with power meter bikes to challenge and test with and without
Krankups, they all refused. So here I am in a catch 22. I have a well
engineered lasting product that is the first pedaling improvement in
years and can't get riders to understand them. I am open and will
answer all emails for your input and suggestions.



I think you'd do better with an L shaped crank or an oval chain ring.

Maybe a bottle of snake oil?

Good luck.

--
JS

CLEAN CHAIN LUBE WITH SNAKE OIL

CATCH THE WIND

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lke-5yZw_A8

On Tue, 31 May 2016 09:16:40 -0700 (PDT), George Dukic
wrote:

Gentlemen and lady's
For the life of me I cannot find a way to have riders understand how Krankups work. I have a video on Kickstarter showing how my rotating pedal adaptors give you a longer power stroke making it easer to pedal. We have had many riders (700 miles total)try them out with all agreeing how well they work and wanting to buy them. Yet the viewers don't understand well enough to make a donation.
Most reply's came back asking for tech results with a power meter. Being an engineer I researched power meters. What I found surprised me. Power meters do not make it easer to pedal, they encourage you to pedal harder and faster, period. How they calculate watts from the strain gauge in the pedal is beyond me, I asked a few makers to explain this to me, no reply's. I also went to several bike shops with power meter bikes to challenge and test with and without Krankups, they all refused.
So here I am in a catch 22. I have a well engineered lasting product that is the first pedaling improvement in years and can't get riders to understand them. I am open and will answer all emails for your input and suggestions.
Thank you
George Dukic


Well, I did visit your site and frankly I do not understand how your
"krankups" are going to work. Primarily because you present no real
explanation. Your video is largely limited to which way to turn the
wrench to remove or install pedals, which I might add is hardly new or
innovative information, and an appeal to send you $75.

Your discussion, above, about power meters, and your assertion that
you are an engineer is a bit confusing as the calculation of power is
basic physics and usually defined as Power = Work / time, or maybe as
pressure /rpm?
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 31 May 2016 09:16:40 -0700 (PDT), George Dukic
wrote:

Gentlemen and lady's

That would be "ladies".

For the life of me I cannot find a way to have riders understand
how Krankups work. I have a video on Kickstarter showing how my
rotating pedal adaptors give you a longer power stroke making it
easer to pedal.

Kickstarter page:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1790594728/krankups-a-new-bicycle-technology
Web page:
http://krankups.com
Patents:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=pts&hl=en&q=George+Dukic

The video shows how the device is installed and nothing more. My
favored method of determining if an idea or product is bogus is by the
lack of technical details and numbers. If you're wondering why riders
fail to understand how Krankups work, perhaps you could help by
explaining how they work using kinematics diagrams, torque, hp, work,
force, energy calculations, and dynamometer test results.

We have had many riders (700 miles total)try them out with all
agreeing how well they work and wanting to buy them. Yet the viewers
don't understand well enough to make a donation.

How many riders? The Krankups in your video appear to be a well used
prototype and do not seem to be the result of a pre-production run
suitable for distributing as test samples. Also, your testimonials
page at:
http://krankups.com/testimonials/
show exactly one recommendation.
"I used this device an experienced a positive increase to
the stroke."
A positive increase in what? The stroke is not a unit of measure.

Most reply's came back asking for tech results with a power meter.

I hope not. Most should have requested results from a dynamometer. A
dynamometer is similar to a power meter, but except that the test is
dynamic or run while moving. A roller trainer with calibrated
resistance (water tank, generator and load, frictional load, etc) are
commonly used.

Being an engineer I researched power meters. What I found surprised me.
Power meters do not make it easer to pedal, they encourage you to
pedal harder and faster, period.

Well, yes... that's the general idea behind a trainer and associated
instrumentation. You can adjust your efforts to maximize the
delivered power as in "saving your strength". If your device will
provide a worthwhile mechanical advantage or improved efficiency, it
would show up on a power meter or dynamometer. Notice I said
"worthwhile" which means that a microscopic or non-repeatable
improvement is usually not worth the effort.

How they calculate watts from the strain gauge in the pedal is beyond
me, I asked a few makers to explain this to me, no reply's.

Steven Scharf explained that in another posting:
http://www.wentec.com/unipower/calculators/power_torque.asp
Do you really need an explanation of the physics relating mass, force,
torque, work, power and energy? Kahn Academy has a nice and clear
explanation of these:
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/work-and-energy/work-and-energy-tutorial/v/introduction-to-work-and-energy

I also went to several bike shops with power meter bikes to
challenge and test with and without Krankups, they all refused.

Well, I can only speculate what went wrong, but perhaps you might be
expecting too much or somehow failed the diplomacy test. My
experience with the LBS (local bike shop) is that they're too busy to
deal with such things, and don't want to trust their expensive
equipment to someone they don't know.

So here I am in a catch 22. I have a well engineered lasting
product that is the first pedaling improvement in years and can't
get riders to understand them. I am open and will answer all
emails for your input and suggestions.

Why emails? If you post your problem in a public forum, you should be
able to answer any comments and suggestions in a public forum, not by
private email. Also, you have not demonstrated to me that you have a
"well engineered lasting product". I don't see any numbers, tests,
results, calculations, theory of operation, computah models, etc.

Incidentally, it would appear that there has already been a patent
application filed on the basic principle of operation.
"New and improved bicycle pedal mechanism"
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2014008546A1
There are no drawings and the description is rather confusing, but it
seems to be identical to your design.


Thank you
George Dukic


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 31 May 2016 19:43:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2016 09:16:40 -0700 (PDT), George Dukic
wrote:

Gentlemen and lady's

That would be "ladies".

For the life of me I cannot find a way to have riders understand
how Krankups work. I have a video on Kickstarter showing how my
rotating pedal adaptors give you a longer power stroke making it
easer to pedal.

Kickstarter page:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1790594728/krankups-a-new-bicycle-technology
Web page:
http://krankups.com
Patents:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=pts&hl=en&q=George+Dukic

The video shows how the device is installed and nothing more. My
favored method of determining if an idea or product is bogus is by the
lack of technical details and numbers. If you're wondering why riders
fail to understand how Krankups work, perhaps you could help by
explaining how they work using kinematics diagrams, torque, hp, work,
force, energy calculations, and dynamometer test results.

We have had many riders (700 miles total)try them out with all
agreeing how well they work and wanting to buy them. Yet the viewers
don't understand well enough to make a donation.

How many riders? The Krankups in your video appear to be a well used
prototype and do not seem to be the result of a pre-production run
suitable for distributing as test samples. Also, your testimonials
page at:
http://krankups.com/testimonials/
show exactly one recommendation.
"I used this device an experienced a positive increase to
the stroke."
A positive increase in what? The stroke is not a unit of measure.

Most reply's came back asking for tech results with a power meter.

I hope not. Most should have requested results from a dynamometer. A
dynamometer is similar to a power meter, but except that the test is
dynamic or run while moving. A roller trainer with calibrated
resistance (water tank, generator and load, frictional load, etc) are
commonly used.

Being an engineer I researched power meters. What I found surprised me.
Power meters do not make it easer to pedal, they encourage you to
pedal harder and faster, period.

Well, yes... that's the general idea behind a trainer and associated
instrumentation. You can adjust your efforts to maximize the
delivered power as in "saving your strength". If your device will
provide a worthwhile mechanical advantage or improved efficiency, it
would show up on a power meter or dynamometer. Notice I said
"worthwhile" which means that a microscopic or non-repeatable
improvement is usually not worth the effort.

How they calculate watts from the strain gauge in the pedal is beyond
me, I asked a few makers to explain this to me, no reply's.

Steven Scharf explained that in another posting:
http://www.wentec.com/unipower/calculators/power_torque.asp
Do you really need an explanation of the physics relating mass, force,
torque, work, power and energy? Kahn Academy has a nice and clear
explanation of these:
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/work-and-energy/work-and-energy-tutorial/v/introduction-to-work-and-energy

I also went to several bike shops with power meter bikes to
challenge and test with and without Krankups, they all refused.

Well, I can only speculate what went wrong, but perhaps you might be
expecting too much or somehow failed the diplomacy test. My
experience with the LBS (local bike shop) is that they're too busy to
deal with such things, and don't want to trust their expensive
equipment to someone they don't know.

So here I am in a catch 22. I have a well engineered lasting
product that is the first pedaling improvement in years and can't
get riders to understand them. I am open and will answer all
emails for your input and suggestions.

Why emails? If you post your problem in a public forum, you should be
able to answer any comments and suggestions in a public forum, not by
private email. Also, you have not demonstrated to me that you have a
"well engineered lasting product". I don't see any numbers, tests,
results, calculations, theory of operation, computah models, etc.

Incidentally, it would appear that there has already been a patent
application filed on the basic principle of operation.
"New and improved bicycle pedal mechanism"
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2014008546A1
There are no drawings and the description is rather confusing, but it
seems to be identical to your design.


See https://www.google.com/patents/US1714134 for a device that while
different in operation seems to provide the same results.
--
cheers,

John B.

Thanks Lieb ...

SHIMANO and ? produced an elliptical CR ..recently some flack passed thru here ..and there too I imagine ... THEY found several in a warehouse in Mongolia ...

yet there's no visible cult following supporting the idea a group of engineers had thought the concept worked on the street.

Why is this ? or that ?