removing rust from bikes and guns

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 08:43:36 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 09:40:24 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 17:54:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 00:39:21 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Are there any tricks to this?

There are tricks to doing everything.

For bicycle rust, there are a variety of mechanical and chemical rust
removers. The abrasive variety work best on smooth surfaces. The
chemical variety will get into the cracks and crevases. What you use
to remove the rust is not important. What you use to prevent the rust
from coming back is very important. There are various undercoatings,
primers, phosphate based "rust reformers" and such that will provide
the necessary protection. Add paint and you're done.

Nobody paints guns, so you'll need some other kind of protection. Gun
bluing does little in the way of rust protection. Ask your question
in the gun nut forums for a better answer.

The Springfield muskets, both rifles and un-rifled had bright finishes
certainly from 1795 until the 1863 model. No anti-rust at all.

Judging by some random googling and looking at photos, the action
appears to be nickel plated. No clue on the barrels.
https://www.google.com/search?q=springfield+musket&tbm=isch

No they were not plated. I've owned them and they were bare steel.

But he was asking about removing rust and mentioned the rifles as an
argument to using sandpaper to remove rust :-)

Fine sandpaper only removes rust from smooth surfaces but doesn't get
into cracks and crevasses. Coarse sandpaper makes cracks and
crevasses.
--
cheers,

John B.

John B. writes:

The usually prescribed practice is to use
fine steel wool

Right, I forgot about that. Yes, I have it.
It is useful for the spokes, handlebar, and
fenders. For the frame, rack, seat pipe, etc.
you need sterner stuff.

--
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
- so far: 48 Blogomatic articles -

On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 07:12:26 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 08:35:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 09:53:43 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 18:59:21 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Bicycle plated with brass, copper, or zinc. I like brass:
http://www.vanheeschdesign.com
Just tear apart the bicycle, have the frame chemically stripped, send
it off to a plating shop, reassemble, and you're now fashionable.

Plating can cause problems though. Especially in threads and other
close fitting places. :-)

You can't see the plating in those places, so the judicious
application of masking tape and wax plugs should help. No need to
plate the insides of the various tubes. I once helped a friend chrome
plate his bicycle frame to 0.01 mils. It took us days to mask off all
the obscure places on the frame. When done, the only thing that
didn't fit was the seat post bolt.

However, the brass bicycle in the photos looks like it had been
chemically stripped and etched to leave room for the brass. It was
then electroplated with brass. That gets brass in all the friction
joints, like on the chain, axles, gear teeth, etc. That's not going
to last and will quickly rub/grind off the brass plating. Basically,
it's not rideable and is more of a show piece. Still, it looks
impressive.

My experience, at least with chrome plating, has been that plating
shops will not accept outside prepared items unless there is a written
statement that they are not responsible for any problems caused by the
owner preparing his own parts for plating... and they are usually
right :-)

Yep. The local plating shop charges outrageous rates for masking and
surface preparation.
http://www.scmetalpolishing.com
http://www.scmetalpolishing.com/examples.html
(See stem in lower right)
They're quite good about inspection and pointing out potential
problems. However, as you note, they won't assume responsibility if I
prep the parts. They're also quite familiar with sand blasting
bicycle frames and getting them ready for painting. The drive between
the sand blaster and the powder coat paint shop is about 2 miles,
which I've made in record time to prevent the frame from rusting
before painting.

Secondly, plating will enlarge parts so that threaded holes will
usually require re-tapping.

Unless the holes are filled with wax.

And thirdly, that plating is usually not as effective as you thought
it was going to be :-)

Yeah, I know. The ladies aren't impressed by nickel, chrome, or brass
bicycles. One commented that a brass or chrome plated bicycle looked
like a bathroom fixture. Maybe I'll try gold or silver plating and
leave the price tag attached.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

You do what ?

Try driving around in your Ferrari with your dick hanging out...

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 18:02:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 07:12:26 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 08:35:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 09:53:43 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 18:59:21 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Bicycle plated with brass, copper, or zinc. I like brass:
http://www.vanheeschdesign.com
Just tear apart the bicycle, have the frame chemically stripped, send
it off to a plating shop, reassemble, and you're now fashionable.

Plating can cause problems though. Especially in threads and other
close fitting places. :-)

You can't see the plating in those places, so the judicious
application of masking tape and wax plugs should help. No need to
plate the insides of the various tubes. I once helped a friend chrome
plate his bicycle frame to 0.01 mils. It took us days to mask off all
the obscure places on the frame. When done, the only thing that
didn't fit was the seat post bolt.

However, the brass bicycle in the photos looks like it had been
chemically stripped and etched to leave room for the brass. It was
then electroplated with brass. That gets brass in all the friction
joints, like on the chain, axles, gear teeth, etc. That's not going
to last and will quickly rub/grind off the brass plating. Basically,
it's not rideable and is more of a show piece. Still, it looks
impressive.

My experience, at least with chrome plating, has been that plating
shops will not accept outside prepared items unless there is a written
statement that they are not responsible for any problems caused by the
owner preparing his own parts for plating... and they are usually
right :-)

Yep. The local plating shop charges outrageous rates for masking and
surface preparation.
http://www.scmetalpolishing.com
http://www.scmetalpolishing.com/examples.html
(See stem in lower right)
They're quite good about inspection and pointing out potential
problems. However, as you note, they won't assume responsibility if I
prep the parts. They're also quite familiar with sand blasting
bicycle frames and getting them ready for painting. The drive between
the sand blaster and the powder coat paint shop is about 2 miles,
which I've made in record time to prevent the frame from rusting
before painting.

"My" power coating shop is all set up for prepping and the normal prep
is a bath of some sort of degreasing liquid and then glass bead
blasting, then blown free of dust with dried compressed air and
immediately sprayed.

The back bumper of my old pickup is getting kind of grotty and I asked
them how much to powder coat it and they told me that "if you don't
get all the rust off before you bring it in it will be too much" :-)

Secondly, plating will enlarge parts so that threaded holes will
usually require re-tapping.

Unless the holes are filled with wax.

Yes, probably true. But I've never seen a plating shop that would do
that.

And thirdly, that plating is usually not as effective as you thought
it was going to be :-)

Yeah, I know. The ladies aren't impressed by nickel, chrome, or brass
bicycles. One commented that a brass or chrome plated bicycle looked
like a bathroom fixture. Maybe I'll try gold or silver plating and
leave the price tag attached.

Well, maybe diamonds on the handle bars?
--
cheers,

John B.

On 6/7/2016 7:04 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 17:53:46 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

AMuzi writes:

You can do whatever you like with your own
equipment but I wouldn't use emery on any
firearm I own.

And what would you do on the bikes you own?

Rim including spokes and hub, handlebar, frame
and nuts, fenders, etc.?

Generally speaking, if a surface is rusted it means that it is made
from iron or steel, and if it is only partially, or only in spots,
rusted it probably means that it is plated with some non-rusting
material. If you sandpaper the rust off you will also be removing some
or all of the rust proofing material which will increase the possible
area that can rust.

The usually prescribed practice is to use fine steel wool to remove
the rust which doesn't remove any rust poof coating that might be
there.


And then there's aluminum corrosion:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/alo2.jpg


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Shoot the bikes and ride the guns more often, that way they won't have time sit still and rust!

grinding bits dig out pit rust without taking off the unrusted surrounding metal.

the taper is excellent, and the cone. round bits take off drilled hole rust, scrim from drilling, and edge rust-prevalent on auto body.

the taper is painted around the hole. pretend your Matisse the Dentist

http://www.mcmaster.com/#grinding-bits/=12rptys

On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 15:04:42 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Secondly, plating will enlarge parts so that threaded holes will
usually require re-tapping.

Unless the holes are filled with wax.

Yes, probably true. But I've never seen a plating shop that would do
that.

Oh, they'll do it, if you pay the price. With paint, it's easy enough
to slop paint into every hole, and clean the threads out with a tap,
or clean the holes out with an end mill. With plating, it's not so
easy. One mistake and a big chunk of plating might fall off.

I typically have about 1 to 2 hrs between sand blasting and painting.
For a bicycle frame and forks, that's too long for a decent hole
plugging job and it will try to rust. So, after sandblasting, I spray
the frame with some kind cheap oil. I can then take my time plugging
the holes with wax. I try to leave just a little plating around the
outside threads by following the wax plug with a screw. Masking tape
(after cleaning off some of the oil) around inside surfaces (bottom
bracket, seat tube, head tube bearing seats, etc). Then, it's off at
top speed to the paint shop for a powder coating. They always
degrease the frame anyway, so the coating of cheap oil doesn't add any
additional cost.

I'm sure there are better ways of getting it done, but this is what
seems to work well due to the lack of a one stop shop that can do both
paint stripping and powder coating.

Well, maybe diamonds on the handle bars?

Interesting idea. I was thinking of changing from my well trimmed
mustache to something more ummm... decorative. Perhaps diamonds might
get the ladies attention.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=handlebar+mustache
I'm accidentally growing a larger mustache anyway. I recently
switched from a razor blade to an electric shaver due to blood
thinners. The slightest razor cut makes me look like a blood sucking
vampire. The electric does a lousy job around the corners of the
mouth causing mustache extensions to form. I was going to let it grow
and see what appears, but cultivating handlebars seems like a
worthwhile direction:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-07.html
So, where do I put the diamonds?

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558