removing rust from bikes and guns

On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 20:16:17 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 15:04:42 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Secondly, plating will enlarge parts so that threaded holes will
usually require re-tapping.

Unless the holes are filled with wax.

Yes, probably true. But I've never seen a plating shop that would do
that.

Oh, they'll do it, if you pay the price. With paint, it's easy enough
to slop paint into every hole, and clean the threads out with a tap,
or clean the holes out with an end mill. With plating, it's not so
easy. One mistake and a big chunk of plating might fall off.

I typically have about 1 to 2 hrs between sand blasting and painting.
For a bicycle frame and forks, that's too long for a decent hole
plugging job and it will try to rust. So, after sandblasting, I spray
the frame with some kind cheap oil. I can then take my time plugging
the holes with wax. I try to leave just a little plating around the
outside threads by following the wax plug with a screw. Masking tape
(after cleaning off some of the oil) around inside surfaces (bottom
bracket, seat tube, head tube bearing seats, etc). Then, it's off at
top speed to the paint shop for a powder coating. They always
degrease the frame anyway, so the coating of cheap oil doesn't add any
additional cost.

I'm sure there are better ways of getting it done, but this is what
seems to work well due to the lack of a one stop shop that can do both
paint stripping and powder coating.

Well, maybe diamonds on the handle bars?

Interesting idea. I was thinking of changing from my well trimmed
mustache to something more ummm... decorative. Perhaps diamonds might
get the ladies attention.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=handlebar+mustache
I'm accidentally growing a larger mustache anyway. I recently
switched from a razor blade to an electric shaver due to blood
thinners. The slightest razor cut makes me look like a blood sucking
vampire. The electric does a lousy job around the corners of the
mouth causing mustache extensions to form. I was going to let it grow
and see what appears, but cultivating handlebars seems like a
worthwhile direction:

I thought that, for the orthodox , shaving with a blade was against
the law?

http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-07.html
So, where do I put the diamonds?
--
cheers,

John B.

Rustoleum

On 6/8/2016 10:16 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 15:04:42 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Secondly, plating will enlarge parts so that threaded holes will
usually require re-tapping.

Unless the holes are filled with wax.

Yes, probably true. But I've never seen a plating shop that would do
that.

Oh, they'll do it, if you pay the price. With paint, it's easy enough
to slop paint into every hole, and clean the threads out with a tap,
or clean the holes out with an end mill. With plating, it's not so
easy. One mistake and a big chunk of plating might fall off.

I typically have about 1 to 2 hrs between sand blasting and painting.
For a bicycle frame and forks, that's too long for a decent hole
plugging job and it will try to rust. So, after sandblasting, I spray
the frame with some kind cheap oil. I can then take my time plugging
the holes with wax. I try to leave just a little plating around the
outside threads by following the wax plug with a screw. Masking tape
(after cleaning off some of the oil) around inside surfaces (bottom
bracket, seat tube, head tube bearing seats, etc). Then, it's off at
top speed to the paint shop for a powder coating. They always
degrease the frame anyway, so the coating of cheap oil doesn't add any
additional cost.

I'm sure there are better ways of getting it done, but this is what
seems to work well due to the lack of a one stop shop that can do both
paint stripping and powder coating.

Well, maybe diamonds on the handle bars?

Interesting idea. I was thinking of changing from my well trimmed
mustache to something more ummm... decorative. Perhaps diamonds might
get the ladies attention.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=handlebar+mustache
I'm accidentally growing a larger mustache anyway. I recently
switched from a razor blade to an electric shaver due to blood
thinners. The slightest razor cut makes me look like a blood sucking
vampire. The electric does a lousy job around the corners of the
mouth causing mustache extensions to form. I was going to let it grow
and see what appears, but cultivating handlebars seems like a
worthwhile direction:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-07.html
So, where do I put the diamonds?


I don't think wax would be the best choice as the part gets
hot during plating. Chrome mask I've used is a brush-on
thick goop, dissolves in lacquer thinner, looks like tool
handle dip.

http://www.pfonline.com/articles/mas...face-finishing

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 08:20:28 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

I don't think wax would be the best choice as the part gets
hot during plating. Chrome mask I've used is a brush-on
thick goop, dissolves in lacquer thinner, looks like tool
handle dip.

http://www.pfonline.com/articles/mas...face-finishing

I know wax works because I've used it. The problem is that I can't
find the specifics on the wax. I recall it had a high stearic acid
content in order to make it hard and melt at a higher temperature. At
the high end, the decorative chrome plating solution runs at 122°F
(50°C). This wasn't the wax, but it looks similar and might have
similar characteristics:
https://www.freemansupply.com/products/specialty-waxes/sheet-wax/master-ht-260-high-temperature-sheet-wax/ht-260-high-temperature-sheet-wax-12-x-24--305mm-x-610mm-plain-back
https://www.freemansupply.com/datasheets/wax/ht260pl.pdf
Softens at 270°F - 280°F (132°C - 138°C). That's an 82°C margin,
which methinks is more than enough. Common household paraffin wax
won't work because it begins melting at 99°F (37°C), which is far too
low a temperature for a 50°C bath.

The masking goo you mention is liquid vinyl and is very similar to the
tool handle dip. The problem is that, like latex, the stuff shrinks
as it hardens. No problem for an outside thread, but we had
difficulties using it on inside threads (head tube, bottom bracket,
and dropouts). I wasn't involved in the determination, but I was told
that high temp waxes work better.

Also, there was some tinkering with using hot melt glues. Low temp
melts at 248°F (120°C) while high temp is applied at about 400°F
(204°C). Getting the stuff off after plating was a challenge, but
eventually worked. Smearing some silicone based mold release compound
on the threads before applying was a big help.

Please note that I am NOT an expert on plating or painting frames.
I've done a few, helped with a few more, and made a few mistakes. If
you're looking for how its done professionally, ask a professional.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

John B. writes:

Well, sandpaper removes material, so
ultimately, if cleaned enough times, the item
would disappear :-) My grandmother had
a "kitchen knife" that she had, she told me,
since she was first married that from
sharpening had worn down to a very thin and
narrow blade.

Indeed, my grandfather did the same and
sharpened his knives until they were but
a shoestring wide. Interesting thing is, in
general, he wasn't a "care of kit" guy and had
a whole house of disorganized, wrecked stuff.
I guess there was some emotional thing with the
knives in particular which set them apart.

As for books, it depends on what era was
being described. The Chassport 1866 appears
to be bright polished steel and cleaning it
with sand paper wouldn't effect the finish
a great deal while one photo of the Lebel
1886 seems to show a blued finish and
cleaning with sand paper would probably
destroy the finish.

Aha, so it is an esthetical thing as well!
That makes sense because the legionaries
were/are parade soldiers if there ever were
any...

As for bicycles. If the bike is disassembled
I have had good luck cleaning steel parts
with an acid bath. I commonly use a very
strong bathroom tile cleaner sold here that
has as much as 20% hydrochloride acid.

OK? How much rust does it take for you to do
this? The most rusty bikes I've seen I've still
been able to get by with just brushes, emery,
and steel wool. I imagine if I ever saw more,
I'd say the bike is ready for scrap heap...

Do you have like a huge bath tube were you
lower the bike? Or do you put some of the acid
on it, and then shower with water? Are there
any parts of the bikes that should be put out
of action before you do this?

--
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
- so far: 48 Blogomatic articles -

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 16:07:01 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. writes:

Well, sandpaper removes material, so
ultimately, if cleaned enough times, the item
would disappear :-) My grandmother had
a "kitchen knife" that she had, she told me,
since she was first married that from
sharpening had worn down to a very thin and
narrow blade.

Indeed, my grandfather did the same and
sharpened his knives until they were but
a shoestring wide. Interesting thing is, in
general, he wasn't a "care of kit" guy and had
a whole house of disorganized, wrecked stuff.
I guess there was some emotional thing with the
knives in particular which set them apart.

As for books, it depends on what era was
being described. The Chassport 1866 appears
to be bright polished steel and cleaning it
with sand paper wouldn't effect the finish
a great deal while one photo of the Lebel
1886 seems to show a blued finish and
cleaning with sand paper would probably
destroy the finish.

Aha, so it is an esthetical thing as well!
That makes sense because the legionaries
were/are parade soldiers if there ever were
any...

I think, that in general, all military groups are parade soldiers in
some sense. It is one way to foster a sense of belonging to a group,
which is a very desirable thing in a military group.


As for bicycles. If the bike is disassembled
I have had good luck cleaning steel parts
with an acid bath. I commonly use a very
strong bathroom tile cleaner sold here that
has as much as 20% hydrochloride acid.

OK? How much rust does it take for you to do
this? The most rusty bikes I've seen I've still
been able to get by with just brushes, emery,
and steel wool. I imagine if I ever saw more,
I'd say the bike is ready for scrap heap...

Well, to any extent that you want to carry it. I keep a container of
"Tile Cleaner", maybe 30% acid in the welding "shop" (actually just a
corner of the shop) and use it frequently, particularly for small
parts.

Do you have like a huge bath tube were you
lower the bike? Or do you put some of the acid
on it, and then shower with water? Are there
any parts of the bikes that should be put out
of action before you do this?

I've done both. As I said, I keep a plastic container, say 15cm x 30
cm x 20 cm deep, in the welding shop and I have also applied acid with
a paint brush although a 30% acid mix takes a little time to erode all
the rust off.

There are also the commercial rust removing mixtures that convert rust
to something else - Naval Jelly, which is largely phosphoric acid -
might be better for brush application.

Don't use these acid mixes on chromium or aluminum as it will likely
damage a chrome finish and most acids react with aluminum, some of
them result in hydrogen gas which burns very rapidly. And don't sniff
the fumes, if any, as acid fumes and lung tissue are a poor mix.

On the other hand, don't panic. Most 30% acid solutions will burn skin
but not so rapidly that you don't have time to wash then off with
water before any damage is done and none of the acid mixes I've seen
evaporate easily so fumes aren't generally a problem. After all
millions of housewives clean the kitchen stove and the bathroom tiles
with these mixtures.
--
cheers,

John B.