Who makes RBT slimy underfoot by drooling at their own viciousness?

On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 12:52:21 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

AMF Hercules and British built Huffy (back when the Huffmann
family ran the outfit) were similar to Nottingham Raleighs
in that regard and most other aspects- cheap, solid,
dependable basic frames. Low failure rate is a real benefit
to any established brand BTW.

American lugless Huffy are a different thing entirely.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Worst POS bikes I ever paid out good money for were two Raleighs, one a kid's bike, one a small diamond frame for my son to ride to school. On both Raleighs pieces started falling off before I got them home. They were crap bikes, the ruination of a once-great name.

Andre Jute
PS A lady up the Road has an entirely different kettle of fish in Raleigh bikes, which she inherited from her late father. It's a proper bike, built to last, not perhaps comparable to a modern German custom bike, but in it's own price class decent, respectable and above all reliable.

On 4/2/2020 3:59 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 12:52:21 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

AMF Hercules and British built Huffy (back when the Huffmann
family ran the outfit) were similar to Nottingham Raleighs
in that regard and most other aspects- cheap, solid,
dependable basic frames. Low failure rate is a real benefit
to any established brand BTW.

American lugless Huffy are a different thing entirely.



Worst POS bikes I ever paid out good money for were two Raleighs, one a kid's bike, one a small diamond frame for my son to ride to school. On both Raleighs pieces started falling off before I got them home. They were crap bikes, the ruination of a once-great name.

Andre Jute
PS A lady up the Road has an entirely different kettle of fish in Raleigh bikes, which she inherited from her late father. It's a proper bike, built to last, not perhaps comparable to a modern German custom bike, but in it's own price class decent, respectable and above all reliable.


Which models and years? British built or Asian? Japanese
Raleighs (1980 Super Record/ Gransport) were exceptional and
well priced but early ROC models (1982 Rapide) were junk.

BTW although similar in appearance, an Irish built Humber
Sports of the 1970s was superior quality in every way to a
Nottingham Sports. And cheaper as well. Conversely the Dutch
built Gran Prix was, amazingly, even shoddier than the
Nottingham model.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 2:41:25 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:59 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 12:52:21 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

AMF Hercules and British built Huffy (back when the Huffmann
family ran the outfit) were similar to Nottingham Raleighs
in that regard and most other aspects- cheap, solid,
dependable basic frames. Low failure rate is a real benefit
to any established brand BTW.

American lugless Huffy are a different thing entirely.



Worst POS bikes I ever paid out good money for were two Raleighs, one a kid's bike, one a small diamond frame for my son to ride to school. On both Raleighs pieces started falling off before I got them home. They were crap bikes, the ruination of a once-great name.

Andre Jute
PS A lady up the Road has an entirely different kettle of fish in Raleigh bikes, which she inherited from her late father. It's a proper bike, built to last, not perhaps comparable to a modern German custom bike, but in it's own price class decent, respectable and above all reliable.


Which models and years? British built or Asian? Japanese
Raleighs (1980 Super Record/ Gransport) were exceptional and
well priced but early ROC models (1982 Rapide) were junk.

BTW although similar in appearance, an Irish built Humber
Sports of the 1970s was superior quality in every way to a
Nottingham Sports. And cheaper as well. Conversely the Dutch
built Gran Prix was, amazingly, even shoddier than the
Nottingham model.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I didn't know enough about bikes then to know or care that there was a difference. I was writing two thick books a year under various names, and my publishers would have taken a third every year if I could manage it, plus a textbook, so between bestselling airport novels, literary novels, and nonfiction, not to mention a certain amount of journalism, I was in a daze most of the time. All I knew was that Raleigh had made honest bikes when I was a boy, so I bought into the brand name. It happened c1990. About that time I made an equally horrid mistake with a Peugeot bike for myself; that one was beautifully fillet brazed and nothing on it broke (except the wretch Sachs-Huret oval chainring derailleur system) but unfortunately the design was all wrong, the tubes poorly scaled to the bike, not even to mention the anti-kinaesthetic geometry; that bike wrecked my back to the extent that my physio traded up his small Ford to a big BMW. The experience forced me to learn about bikes.

Much more recently, c2009 a German dealer who didn't sell rubbish offered me a Raleigh with a Rohloff which he said was very good value; I believed him but you won't ever again see me dead on a Raleigh.

Andre Jute
Never forgive, never forget -- one of my family mottos

On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 1:39:45 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 2:41:25 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:59 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 12:52:21 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

AMF Hercules and British built Huffy (back when the Huffmann
family ran the outfit) were similar to Nottingham Raleighs
in that regard and most other aspects- cheap, solid,
dependable basic frames. Low failure rate is a real benefit
to any established brand BTW.

American lugless Huffy are a different thing entirely.



Worst POS bikes I ever paid out good money for were two Raleighs, one a kid's bike, one a small diamond frame for my son to ride to school. On both Raleighs pieces started falling off before I got them home. They were crap bikes, the ruination of a once-great name.

Andre Jute
PS A lady up the Road has an entirely different kettle of fish in Raleigh bikes, which she inherited from her late father. It's a proper bike, built to last, not perhaps comparable to a modern German custom bike, but in it's own price class decent, respectable and above all reliable.


Which models and years? British built or Asian? Japanese
Raleighs (1980 Super Record/ Gransport) were exceptional and
well priced but early ROC models (1982 Rapide) were junk.

BTW although similar in appearance, an Irish built Humber
Sports of the 1970s was superior quality in every way to a
Nottingham Sports. And cheaper as well. Conversely the Dutch
built Gran Prix was, amazingly, even shoddier than the
Nottingham model.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I didn't know enough about bikes then to know or care that there was a difference. I was writing two thick books a year under various names, and my publishers would have taken a third every year if I could manage it, plus a textbook, so between bestselling airport novels, literary novels, and nonfiction, not to mention a certain amount of journalism, I was in a daze most of the time. All I knew was that Raleigh had made honest bikes when I was a boy, so I bought into the brand name. It happened c1990. About that time I made an equally horrid mistake with a Peugeot bike for myself; that one was beautifully fillet brazed and nothing on it broke (except the wretch Sachs-Huret oval chainring derailleur system) but unfortunately the design was all wrong, the tubes poorly scaled to the bike, not even to mention the anti-kinaesthetic geometry; that bike wrecked my back to the extent that my physio traded up his small Ford to a big BMW. The experience forced me to learn about bikes.

Much more recently, c2009 a German dealer who didn't sell rubbish offered me a Raleigh with a Rohloff which he said was very good value; I believed him but you won't ever again see me dead on a Raleigh.

Andre Jute
Never forgive, never forget -- one of my family mottos

Don't tell me you wrote Jack Reacher?

On 4/2/2020 3:39 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 2:41:25 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:59 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 12:52:21 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

AMF Hercules and British built Huffy (back when the Huffmann
family ran the outfit) were similar to Nottingham Raleighs
in that regard and most other aspects- cheap, solid,
dependable basic frames. Low failure rate is a real benefit
to any established brand BTW.

American lugless Huffy are a different thing entirely.



Worst POS bikes I ever paid out good money for were two Raleighs, one a kid's bike, one a small diamond frame for my son to ride to school. On both Raleighs pieces started falling off before I got them home. They were crap bikes, the ruination of a once-great name.

Andre Jute
PS A lady up the Road has an entirely different kettle of fish in Raleigh bikes, which she inherited from her late father. It's a proper bike, built to last, not perhaps comparable to a modern German custom bike, but in it's own price class decent, respectable and above all reliable.


Which models and years? British built or Asian? Japanese
Raleighs (1980 Super Record/ Gransport) were exceptional and
well priced but early ROC models (1982 Rapide) were junk.

BTW although similar in appearance, an Irish built Humber
Sports of the 1970s was superior quality in every way to a
Nottingham Sports. And cheaper as well. Conversely the Dutch
built Gran Prix was, amazingly, even shoddier than the
Nottingham model.

I didn't know enough about bikes then to know or care that there was a difference. I was writing two thick books a year under various names, and my publishers would have taken a third every year if I could manage it, plus a textbook, so between bestselling airport novels, literary novels, and nonfiction, not to mention a certain amount of journalism, I was in a daze most of the time. All I knew was that Raleigh had made honest bikes when I was a boy, so I bought into the brand name. It happened c1990. About that time I made an equally horrid mistake with a Peugeot bike for myself; that one was beautifully fillet brazed and nothing on it broke (except the wretch Sachs-Huret oval chainring derailleur system) but unfortunately the design was all wrong, the tubes poorly scaled to the bike, not even to mention the anti-kinaesthetic geometry; that bike wrecked my back to the extent that my physio traded up his small Ford to a big BMW. The experience forced me to learn about bikes.

Much more recently, c2009 a German dealer who didn't sell rubbish offered me a Raleigh with a Rohloff which he said was very good value; I believed him but you won't ever again see me dead on a Raleigh.

Andre Jute
Never forgive, never forget -- one of my family mottos


Very understandable as 1990 was around the time Nottingham
University expanded over the razed formerly great Raleigh Works.

That series of robot-brazed Peugeot saved the company and
was very well engineered; competitive quality with
comparably priced Japanese frames at the time (nice paint,
too).

They suffered from race-position-itis out of the box. As
always, most dealers didn't change bars/stems/saddles to
suit their varied not licensed clientele. I suspect that
colored your experience.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, April 3, 2020 at 1:29:44 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:39 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 2:41:25 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:59 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 12:52:21 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

AMF Hercules and British built Huffy (back when the Huffmann
family ran the outfit) were similar to Nottingham Raleighs
in that regard and most other aspects- cheap, solid,
dependable basic frames. Low failure rate is a real benefit
to any established brand BTW.

American lugless Huffy are a different thing entirely.



Worst POS bikes I ever paid out good money for were two Raleighs, one a kid's bike, one a small diamond frame for my son to ride to school. On both Raleighs pieces started falling off before I got them home. They were crap bikes, the ruination of a once-great name.

Andre Jute
PS A lady up the Road has an entirely different kettle of fish in Raleigh bikes, which she inherited from her late father. It's a proper bike, built to last, not perhaps comparable to a modern German custom bike, but in it's own price class decent, respectable and above all reliable.


Which models and years? British built or Asian? Japanese
Raleighs (1980 Super Record/ Gransport) were exceptional and
well priced but early ROC models (1982 Rapide) were junk.

BTW although similar in appearance, an Irish built Humber
Sports of the 1970s was superior quality in every way to a
Nottingham Sports. And cheaper as well. Conversely the Dutch
built Gran Prix was, amazingly, even shoddier than the
Nottingham model.

I didn't know enough about bikes then to know or care that there was a difference. I was writing two thick books a year under various names, and my publishers would have taken a third every year if I could manage it, plus a textbook, so between bestselling airport novels, literary novels, and nonfiction, not to mention a certain amount of journalism, I was in a daze most of the time. All I knew was that Raleigh had made honest bikes when I was a boy, so I bought into the brand name. It happened c1990. About that time I made an equally horrid mistake with a Peugeot bike for myself; that one was beautifully fillet brazed and nothing on it broke (except the wretch Sachs-Huret oval chainring derailleur system) but unfortunately the design was all wrong, the tubes poorly scaled to the bike, not even to mention the anti-kinaesthetic geometry; that bike wrecked my back to the extent that my physio traded up his small Ford to a big BMW. The experience forced me to learn about bikes.

Much more recently, c2009 a German dealer who didn't sell rubbish offered me a Raleigh with a Rohloff which he said was very good value; I believed him but you won't ever again see me dead on a Raleigh.

Andre Jute
Never forgive, never forget -- one of my family mottos


Very understandable as 1990 was around the time Nottingham
University expanded over the razed formerly great Raleigh Works.

That series of robot-brazed Peugeot saved the company and
was very well engineered; competitive quality with
comparably priced Japanese frames at the time (nice paint,
too).

The problem of those bikes was precisely the engineering, Andrew. Those were supposed to be mountain bikes. They were however so harsh-riding that they were useless on anything except the smoothest tarmac surfaces. The tubes were visibly too large, though the brazing was a thing of beauty.

They suffered from race-position-itis out of the box. As
always, most dealers didn't change bars/stems/saddles to
suit their varied not licensed clientele. I suspect that
colored your experience.

Uh-huh. The chief of Peugeot bikes in Ireland drove down here to see me. He had one of the top model left, but it was purple. I didn't care about the colour and he was willing to give me a discount to cover a posh respray. The question of changing components arose only after the bike was delivered to my LBS, when it turned out he had no better components than were on the bike. For my next bike this unfortunate man, who'd been on the rough side of my tongue for introducing me to the Peugeot boss, told me he'd order stuff for me, but I should buy my bike overseas if I wanted a really good bike. That has turned out to be very good advice. I bought my last three bikes from three different countries, sight unseen, without even sitting on them, and all three have been great bikes. Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe I finally have the hang of bicycles.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

" race-position-itis" -- This is too common for words. I had to reengineer my position on my Trek Smover http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html to make it fit me because the designer had fitted a luxury commuter complete with autobox with harsh tyres, a seat like a hatchet up your arse, and cut the electronic control wiring too short to even raise the overly low-set handlebars. Trek Benelux helped me enthusiastically, sending me a big box of parts, including extra-length control cables, and some gifts, including a pair of VP-191 pedals, which turned out so brilliantly that I bought more for all my bikes.

Andre Jute
Car-free since 1990

On Friday, April 3, 2020 at 12:41:33 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 1:39:45 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 2:41:25 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:59 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 12:52:21 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

AMF Hercules and British built Huffy (back when the Huffmann
family ran the outfit) were similar to Nottingham Raleighs
in that regard and most other aspects- cheap, solid,
dependable basic frames. Low failure rate is a real benefit
to any established brand BTW.

American lugless Huffy are a different thing entirely.



Worst POS bikes I ever paid out good money for were two Raleighs, one a kid's bike, one a small diamond frame for my son to ride to school. On both Raleighs pieces started falling off before I got them home. They were crap bikes, the ruination of a once-great name.

Andre Jute
PS A lady up the Road has an entirely different kettle of fish in Raleigh bikes, which she inherited from her late father. It's a proper bike, built to last, not perhaps comparable to a modern German custom bike, but in it's own price class decent, respectable and above all reliable.


Which models and years? British built or Asian? Japanese
Raleighs (1980 Super Record/ Gransport) were exceptional and
well priced but early ROC models (1982 Rapide) were junk.

BTW although similar in appearance, an Irish built Humber
Sports of the 1970s was superior quality in every way to a
Nottingham Sports. And cheaper as well. Conversely the Dutch
built Gran Prix was, amazingly, even shoddier than the
Nottingham model.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I didn't know enough about bikes then to know or care that there was a difference. I was writing two thick books a year under various names, and my publishers would have taken a third every year if I could manage it, plus a textbook, so between bestselling airport novels, literary novels, and nonfiction, not to mention a certain amount of journalism, I was in a daze most of the time. All I knew was that Raleigh had made honest bikes when I was a boy, so I bought into the brand name. It happened c1990. About that time I made an equally horrid mistake with a Peugeot bike for myself; that one was beautifully fillet brazed and nothing on it broke (except the wretch Sachs-Huret oval chainring derailleur system) but unfortunately the design was all wrong, the tubes poorly scaled to the bike, not even to mention the anti-kinaesthetic geometry; that bike wrecked my back to the extent that my physio traded up his small Ford to a big BMW. The experience forced me to learn about bikes.

Much more recently, c2009 a German dealer who didn't sell rubbish offered me a Raleigh with a Rohloff which he said was very good value; I believed him but you won't ever again see me dead on a Raleigh.

Andre Jute
Never forgive, never forget -- one of my family mottos

Don't tell me you wrote Jack Reacher?

If only! I wouldn't mind the money Mr Grant (Lee Child's real name) is coining. -- AJ

On 4/3/2020 6:03 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, April 3, 2020 at 1:29:44 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:39 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 2:41:25 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:59 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 12:52:21 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

AMF Hercules and British built Huffy (back when the Huffmann
family ran the outfit) were similar to Nottingham Raleighs
in that regard and most other aspects- cheap, solid,
dependable basic frames. Low failure rate is a real benefit
to any established brand BTW.

American lugless Huffy are a different thing entirely.



Worst POS bikes I ever paid out good money for were two Raleighs, one a kid's bike, one a small diamond frame for my son to ride to school. On both Raleighs pieces started falling off before I got them home. They were crap bikes, the ruination of a once-great name.

Andre Jute
PS A lady up the Road has an entirely different kettle of fish in Raleigh bikes, which she inherited from her late father. It's a proper bike, built to last, not perhaps comparable to a modern German custom bike, but in it's own price class decent, respectable and above all reliable.


Which models and years? British built or Asian? Japanese
Raleighs (1980 Super Record/ Gransport) were exceptional and
well priced but early ROC models (1982 Rapide) were junk.

BTW although similar in appearance, an Irish built Humber
Sports of the 1970s was superior quality in every way to a
Nottingham Sports. And cheaper as well. Conversely the Dutch
built Gran Prix was, amazingly, even shoddier than the
Nottingham model.

I didn't know enough about bikes then to know or care that there was a difference. I was writing two thick books a year under various names, and my publishers would have taken a third every year if I could manage it, plus a textbook, so between bestselling airport novels, literary novels, and nonfiction, not to mention a certain amount of journalism, I was in a daze most of the time. All I knew was that Raleigh had made honest bikes when I was a boy, so I bought into the brand name. It happened c1990. About that time I made an equally horrid mistake with a Peugeot bike for myself; that one was beautifully fillet brazed and nothing on it broke (except the wretch Sachs-Huret oval chainring derailleur system) but unfortunately the design was all wrong, the tubes poorly scaled to the bike, not even to mention the anti-kinaesthetic geometry; that bike wrecked my back to the extent that my physio traded up his small Ford to a big BMW. The experience forced me to learn about bikes.

Much more recently, c2009 a German dealer who didn't sell rubbish offered me a Raleigh with a Rohloff which he said was very good value; I believed him but you won't ever again see me dead on a Raleigh.

Andre Jute
Never forgive, never forget -- one of my family mottos


Very understandable as 1990 was around the time Nottingham
University expanded over the razed formerly great Raleigh Works.

That series of robot-brazed Peugeot saved the company and
was very well engineered; competitive quality with
comparably priced Japanese frames at the time (nice paint,
too).

The problem of those bikes was precisely the engineering, Andrew. Those were supposed to be mountain bikes. They were however so harsh-riding that they were useless on anything except the smoothest tarmac surfaces. The tubes were visibly too large, though the brazing was a thing of beauty.

They suffered from race-position-itis out of the box. As
always, most dealers didn't change bars/stems/saddles to
suit their varied not licensed clientele. I suspect that
colored your experience.

Uh-huh. The chief of Peugeot bikes in Ireland drove down here to see me. He had one of the top model left, but it was purple. I didn't care about the colour and he was willing to give me a discount to cover a posh respray. The question of changing components arose only after the bike was delivered to my LBS, when it turned out he had no better components than were on the bike. For my next bike this unfortunate man, who'd been on the rough side of my tongue for introducing me to the Peugeot boss, told me he'd order stuff for me, but I should buy my bike overseas if I wanted a really good bike. That has turned out to be very good advice. I bought my last three bikes from three different countries, sight unseen, without even sitting on them, and all three have been great bikes. Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe I finally have the hang of bicycles.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

" race-position-itis" -- This is too common for words. I had to reengineer my position on my Trek Smover http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html to make it fit me because the designer had fitted a luxury commuter complete with autobox with harsh tyres, a seat like a hatchet up your arse, and cut the electronic control wiring too short to even raise the overly low-set handlebars. Trek Benelux helped me enthusiastically, sending me a big box of parts, including extra-length control cables, and some gifts, including a pair of VP-191 pedals, which turned out so brilliantly that I bought more for all my bikes.

Andre Jute
Car-free since 1990


Oh, a Peugeot VTT. That explains everything.

For the US market, Peugeot went to Japan for superior
offroad bikes. And they were indeed top shelf; Lugged Tange
tube, Suntour XCPro/Deore XT etc


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, April 3, 2020 at 2:42:41 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/3/2020 6:03 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, April 3, 2020 at 1:29:44 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:39 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 2:41:25 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/2/2020 3:59 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 12:52:21 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

AMF Hercules and British built Huffy (back when the Huffmann
family ran the outfit) were similar to Nottingham Raleighs
in that regard and most other aspects- cheap, solid,
dependable basic frames. Low failure rate is a real benefit
to any established brand BTW.

American lugless Huffy are a different thing entirely.



Worst POS bikes I ever paid out good money for were two Raleighs, one a kid's bike, one a small diamond frame for my son to ride to school. On both Raleighs pieces started falling off before I got them home. They were crap bikes, the ruination of a once-great name.

Andre Jute
PS A lady up the Road has an entirely different kettle of fish in Raleigh bikes, which she inherited from her late father. It's a proper bike, built to last, not perhaps comparable to a modern German custom bike, but in it's own price class decent, respectable and above all reliable.


Which models and years? British built or Asian? Japanese
Raleighs (1980 Super Record/ Gransport) were exceptional and
well priced but early ROC models (1982 Rapide) were junk.

BTW although similar in appearance, an Irish built Humber
Sports of the 1970s was superior quality in every way to a
Nottingham Sports. And cheaper as well. Conversely the Dutch
built Gran Prix was, amazingly, even shoddier than the
Nottingham model.

I didn't know enough about bikes then to know or care that there was a difference. I was writing two thick books a year under various names, and my publishers would have taken a third every year if I could manage it, plus a textbook, so between bestselling airport novels, literary novels, and nonfiction, not to mention a certain amount of journalism, I was in a daze most of the time. All I knew was that Raleigh had made honest bikes when I was a boy, so I bought into the brand name. It happened c1990. About that time I made an equally horrid mistake with a Peugeot bike for myself; that one was beautifully fillet brazed and nothing on it broke (except the wretch Sachs-Huret oval chainring derailleur system) but unfortunately the design was all wrong, the tubes poorly scaled to the bike, not even to mention the anti-kinaesthetic geometry; that bike wrecked my back to the extent that my physio traded up his small Ford to a big BMW. The experience forced me to learn about bikes.

Much more recently, c2009 a German dealer who didn't sell rubbish offered me a Raleigh with a Rohloff which he said was very good value; I believed him but you won't ever again see me dead on a Raleigh.

Andre Jute
Never forgive, never forget -- one of my family mottos


Very understandable as 1990 was around the time Nottingham
University expanded over the razed formerly great Raleigh Works.

That series of robot-brazed Peugeot saved the company and
was very well engineered; competitive quality with
comparably priced Japanese frames at the time (nice paint,
too).

The problem of those bikes was precisely the engineering, Andrew. Those were supposed to be mountain bikes. They were however so harsh-riding that they were useless on anything except the smoothest tarmac surfaces. The tubes were visibly too large, though the brazing was a thing of beauty.

They suffered from race-position-itis out of the box. As
always, most dealers didn't change bars/stems/saddles to
suit their varied not licensed clientele. I suspect that
colored your experience.

Uh-huh. The chief of Peugeot bikes in Ireland drove down here to see me.. He had one of the top model left, but it was purple. I didn't care about the colour and he was willing to give me a discount to cover a posh respray.. The question of changing components arose only after the bike was delivered to my LBS, when it turned out he had no better components than were on the bike. For my next bike this unfortunate man, who'd been on the rough side of my tongue for introducing me to the Peugeot boss, told me he'd order stuff for me, but I should buy my bike overseas if I wanted a really good bike. That has turned out to be very good advice. I bought my last three bikes from three different countries, sight unseen, without even sitting on them, and all three have been great bikes. Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe I finally have the hang of bicycles.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

" race-position-itis" -- This is too common for words. I had to reengineer my position on my Trek Smover http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html to make it fit me because the designer had fitted a luxury commuter complete with autobox with harsh tyres, a seat like a hatchet up your arse, and cut the electronic control wiring too short to even raise the overly low-set handlebars. Trek Benelux helped me enthusiastically, sending me a big box of parts, including extra-length control cables, and some gifts, including a pair of VP-191 pedals, which turned out so brilliantly that I bought more for all my bikes.

Andre Jute
Car-free since 1990


Oh, a Peugeot VTT. That explains everything.

For the US market, Peugeot went to Japan for superior
offroad bikes. And they were indeed top shelf; Lugged Tange
tube, Suntour XCPro/Deore XT etc


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

You're probably right. The bike looked something like this in geometry and colour,
https://trocathlon-assets-prod.s3-eu...c22fce32b1.jpg
though I'm pretty sure the top tube was thicker; and of course I had mudguards and a rack and lamps fitted. Also, it comes to me now, there was a white ATAX stem on it, a really jarring colour choice. I can't tell just by looking at this one, as you can, whether it has the awful Omega oval chainring that came with the Sachs-Huret transmission group on it.

The most awful thing about that bike is that it is indestructible. I gave it to the LBS, who decided it was too good for his rental trade and sold it on to someone I pass on the road occasionally and who greets me effusively.. I stopped once to talk to him, and the LBS told him that thanks to my generosity he was getting an expensive upmarket bike for peanuts (he paid 75 pounds)! I wince in the small of my back every time I see that bike.

Andre Jute
Far more valuable than esoteric knowledge is knowing who to ask