Disk brakes

Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for mechanical
or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of them really all
that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you have bleed
hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the future is
only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in going down long
mountains and heating. Rain would make them better too. Could all be
completely overblown too?

Deacon Mark


Can you mount disks on your bike?

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/15/2020 5:53 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 4:34:55 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 11:01:35 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/15/2020 1:10 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of
them really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you
have bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the
future is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in
going down long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better
too. Could all be completely overblown too?

"I do fine with rim brakes but I'm getting disc" is a very common meme
these days!

I've gone down mountains with rim brakes and heavy loads. I was aware of
the potential problem and was careful about it, but I never had that
problem. For people riding mountain bikes in mud or (like Jay) commuting
in six months of rain, discs make sense. For others, not so much, IMO.

I have only a tiny bit of experience working on discs, so I'm not
qualified to comment on hydro vs. cable, etc. My only advice is to buy
extra pads early (maybe on sale?) and carry one set when you ride.

I'd worry, perhaps needlessly, about someday being told "Oh, you need
pads for an Acme 1100-Z disc brake? Dude, that's SO unfashionable! They
stopped making pads for that one five years ago!"


--
- Frank Krygowski

Hé, Frank what took you so long? I'm a little disappointed.

Lou

This was all very helpful. Now the question is how much do replacement
pads cost. Personally I can see no reason to go to disk but in the rain
would be the first reason. I live in Illinois so we are flat as a
pancake. Not sure the longest descent in the mountains I have done but
not done a lot of riding in mountains. One time around Bozeman Mt and I
did fine on a rental bike. I would like to travel and do some riding in
mountains. The steepest grade of any length I have gone down is about 6%
for a mile and feather the brakes but have no idea how much you have to
descend until brakes get hot.

The guy who was my department chairman until he retired once went to
Hawaii on vacation. He came back bragging about the bike ride he and his
wife did. The rental company took them to the top of some mountain and
they had miles and miles of downill to the pickup point.

This was probably 20 years ago. I'm sure the bikes had rim brakes. My
friend said nothing at all about the brakes, so I assume they were not a
problem.

I seem to recall some of the Hawaiian “ride down a volcano� bikes use
coaster brakes, which get rebuilt after nearly every ride.



One other item is taking the wheel off and on any more tricky or harder
to line up. Seem they don't use quick release levers?

My neighbor's new bike has through axles. She fussed for several minutes
yesterday trying to get the axle back in. But as she says, she's not
very mechanical.

I would hope it is easy to set up because would not want brake rub.

As I've mentioned, one friend of me had a rubbing or noise problem on
his brand new bike. It took the shop three tries to fix whatever the
problem was with his rear disc. I've briefly ridden other disc brake
bikes that had rubbing. I remember one owner (a tourist passing through
here) saying the noise didn't bother him, he was used to it.

IMO, rim brakes are easier to diagnose. You can easily see what's
happening. Comparatively speaking, disc brakes are a black box.

But of course, most people do fine with them. It all depends on your
priorities and standards, and perhaps on your luck.

On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 14:53:55 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
wrote:

On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 4:34:55 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 11:01:35 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/15/2020 1:10 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of them really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you have bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the future is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in going down long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better too. Could all be completely overblown too?

"I do fine with rim brakes but I'm getting disc" is a very common meme
these days!

I've gone down mountains with rim brakes and heavy loads. I was aware of
the potential problem and was careful about it, but I never had that
problem. For people riding mountain bikes in mud or (like Jay) commuting
in six months of rain, discs make sense. For others, not so much, IMO.

I have only a tiny bit of experience working on discs, so I'm not
qualified to comment on hydro vs. cable, etc. My only advice is to buy
extra pads early (maybe on sale?) and carry one set when you ride.

I'd worry, perhaps needlessly, about someday being told "Oh, you need
pads for an Acme 1100-Z disc brake? Dude, that's SO unfashionable! They
stopped making pads for that one five years ago!"


--
- Frank Krygowski

Hé, Frank what took you so long? I'm a little disappointed.

Lou

This was all very helpful. Now the question is how much do replacement pads cost. Personally I can see no reason to go to disk but in the rain would be the first reason. I live in Illinois so we are flat as a pancake. Not sure the longest descent in the mountains I have done but not done a lot of riding in mountains. One time around Bozeman Mt and I did fine on a rental bike. I would like to travel and do some riding in mountains. The steepest grade of any length I have gone down is about 6% for a mile and feather the brakes but have no idea how much you have to descend until brakes get hot.

https://www.amazon.com/shimano-brake...ano+brake+pads

One other item is taking the wheel off and on any more tricky or harder to line up. Seem they don't use quick release levers? I would hope it is easy to set up because would not want brake rub.

Deacon Mark
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 14:53:55 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
wrote:

no idea how much you have to descend until brakes get hot.

West of Albany, New York, you could get bored coasting downhill.
I used to stop every mile or two and feel my rims, and never found
them the least bit warm.

But I never feathered the brakes. I would coast until I started
feeling a bit nervous, then brake hard until I was going a bit
slower than I preferred.

If the road was straight and the pavement was good -- neither was
common -- I wouldn't brake at all, but count on the following climb
to slow me down.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On 16/6/20 3:10 am, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of
them really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you
have bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket
science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the
future is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in
going down long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better
too. Could all be completely overblown too?

Deacon Mark


I maintain 3 bikes with discs. I have an older MTB with flat bars and
mechanical disc brakes, with calipers that have one adjustable pad and
the other pad is moved by the cable. A bit of a pain to adjust while
you're out unless you carry an hex key. I don't recommend these brakes.

I have a gravel bike with mechanical disc brakes and drop bars with STI
levers and long cable runs in fully encased cables. The calipers are
TRP Spyre-C, where both pads are moved by the cable, unlike the MTB
calipers where only one pad moves. These brakes work absolutely fine
and are very easy to adjust and maintain for anyone who has worked with
rim brakes and has an ounce of nous.

The third bike is more of a city bike, with flat bars and hydraulic disc
brakes. Shimano. I've had some problems with a leaking hydraulic line
that made the pads and disc oily. I had to replace the pads and clean
the caliper and disc really well (acetone worked). I've also had to
bleed the brakes a couple of times and it is a messy business that
requires more special tools from Shimano, like the vessel that screws
into the lever body that you can use when bleeding and refilling the
fluid. A least it is mineral oil and doesn't attack paint like regular
brake fluid. Once they are working they work fine. Nice light control
and self adjusting, but that's the sum total of the "improvement" over
cable operated disc brakes.

As my grip strength is quite good, and self adjusting is not important
to me, I prefer cable actuated disc brakes so long as the caliper is one
that moves both pads at once. TRP Spyre-C calipers. Easiest to
maintain and extremely reliable - like rim brakes without the rim wear
and better performance in wet weather.

You can also get TRP calipers that are a hydraulic caliper actuated by a
cable. The improvement is in self adjustment for use with non-hydraulic
levers.

All my disc equipped bikes have regular QR axles. None of the new
fangled through axles for me yet.

--
JS

On 15/06/2020 19:10, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of
them really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you
have bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket
science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the
future is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in
going down long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better
too. Could all be completely overblown too?

Deacon Mark

I'd go hydraulic with mineral oil. Cable brakes require adjusting and
the cables crud up like any other cable system. DOT fluid requires
changing annually. Mineral oil is pretty much fit and forget. Nice
hard pads last forever if you don't need ultimate braking.

All my bikes have this set up.

On 15/06/2020 23:53, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 4:34:55 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 11:01:35 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 6/15/2020 1:10 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either
of them really all that hard to keep working with properly?
Seems if you have bleed hydraulic that would be a little more
but nut rocket science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the
future is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes
in going down long mountains and heating. Rain would make them
better too. Could all be completely overblown too?

"I do fine with rim brakes but I'm getting disc" is a very common
meme these days!

I've gone down mountains with rim brakes and heavy loads. I was
aware of the potential problem and was careful about it, but I
never had that problem. For people riding mountain bikes in mud
or (like Jay) commuting in six months of rain, discs make sense.
For others, not so much, IMO.

I have only a tiny bit of experience working on discs, so I'm
not qualified to comment on hydro vs. cable, etc. My only advice
is to buy extra pads early (maybe on sale?) and carry one set
when you ride.

I'd worry, perhaps needlessly, about someday being told "Oh, you
need pads for an Acme 1100-Z disc brake? Dude, that's SO
unfashionable! They stopped making pads for that one five years
ago!"


-- - Frank Krygowski

Hé, Frank what took you so long? I'm a little disappointed.

Lou

This was all very helpful. Now the question is how much do
replacement pads cost. Personally I can see no reason to go to disk
but in the rain would be the first reason. I live in Illinois so we
are flat as a pancake. Not sure the longest descent in the mountains
I have done but not done a lot of riding in mountains. One time
around Bozeman Mt and I did fine on a rental bike. I would like to
travel and do some riding in mountains. The steepest grade of any
length I have gone down is about 6% for a mile and feather the brakes
but have no idea how much you have to descend until brakes get hot.

One other item is taking the wheel off and on any more tricky or
harder to line up. Seem they don't use quick release levers? I would
hope it is easy to set up because would not want brake rub.

Deacon Mark

A few dollars each, maybe 10 dollars/pair for better ones. If you're in
the flatlands like me, they will last years. Quicker and easier to
change than rim pads as well.

On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:42:59 AM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 15/06/2020 19:10, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of
them really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you
have bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket
science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the
future is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in
going down long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better
too. Could all be completely overblown too?

Deacon Mark

I'd go hydraulic with mineral oil. Cable brakes require adjusting and
the cables crud up like any other cable system. DOT fluid requires
changing annually. Mineral oil is pretty much fit and forget. Nice
hard pads last forever if you don't need ultimate braking.

All my bikes have this set up.

Get the 1L bottle if you have a herd of Shimano disc bikes. https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=39972

The little bottles are ridiculously over-priced. I got my 1L for $17 on sale. It doesn't go bad after being opened like DOT fluid. I can spill it all over and still have enough for a lifetime.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 8:36:30 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:42:59 AM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 15/06/2020 19:10, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of
them really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you
have bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket
science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the
future is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in
going down long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better
too. Could all be completely overblown too?

Deacon Mark

I'd go hydraulic with mineral oil. Cable brakes require adjusting and
the cables crud up like any other cable system. DOT fluid requires
changing annually. Mineral oil is pretty much fit and forget. Nice
hard pads last forever if you don't need ultimate braking.

All my bikes have this set up.

Get the 1L bottle if you have a herd of Shimano disc bikes. https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=39972

The little bottles are ridiculously over-priced. I got my 1L for $17 on sale. It doesn't go bad after being opened like DOT fluid. I can spill it all over and still have enough for a lifetime.

That sounds good Jay, but the system uses almost no fluid (less than the small bottle) and never needs to be replenished unless you get a leak. And unless you overtighten the connector that's unlikely.

On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 8:49:29 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 8:36:30 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:42:59 AM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 15/06/2020 19:10, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of
them really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you
have bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket
science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the
future is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in
going down long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better
too. Could all be completely overblown too?

Deacon Mark

I'd go hydraulic with mineral oil. Cable brakes require adjusting and
the cables crud up like any other cable system. DOT fluid requires
changing annually. Mineral oil is pretty much fit and forget. Nice
hard pads last forever if you don't need ultimate braking.

All my bikes have this set up.

Get the 1L bottle if you have a herd of Shimano disc bikes. https://www..universalcycles.com/sho...s.php?id=39972

The little bottles are ridiculously over-priced. I got my 1L for $17 on sale. It doesn't go bad after being opened like DOT fluid. I can spill it all over and still have enough for a lifetime.

That sounds good Jay, but the system uses almost no fluid (less than the small bottle) and never needs to be replenished unless you get a leak. And unless you overtighten the connector that's unlikely.

Installing brakes on four bikes, one with a leaky caliper caused by a bad internal seal (which I fixed), it paid to get the bigger bottle. Really, they want $10 for 100ml when I got 1,000ml for $17. That's an $83 savings. I'll sell it to the neighbors. I'll sell you 100ml for only $8 plus $1 shipping. You'll still save a dollar. And its Shimano and red. A liter of ordinary non-red and non-Shimano mineral oil is probably $2, but I'm not comfortable experimenting with my brakes. Plus it wouldn't be red. I'd have to buy food coloring.

-- Jay Beattie.