Adjusting brakes

On 7/21/2020 8:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 00:55:27 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 23:51:19 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:13:18 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 8:59:59 AM UTC-5, AK wrote:
On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 6:37:22 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/19/2020 1:44 PM, AK wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 7:59:12 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/18/2020 2:39 AM, AK wrote:
I am having a very hard time adjusting my rear brakes.

I have a mountain bike. Low end. :-)

If I adjust it to where it grabs the rim tightly, it slows my bike
down due to the resistance from the brake touching the rim.

It's very frustrating.

Thanks,
Andy


First off, does your rim run straight without dents ? Any
bearing slop?
Secondly are there kinks or other impedimanta to your cable?

Do your brake pads meet the rim squarely and fully or are
they askew?

Is everything original? Mismatch of standard lever with
long pull linear brake would give that symptom.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Yes to all your questions.

https://imgur.com/a/e61C1L5

https://imgur.com/a/nXBEr1Q


I don't see anything unusual.

Are the cables and brake pivots free moving and lubricated,
tat is, does the brake snap open when you release the lever?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I just found a broken spoke on my rear wheel.

I think my bike is plain wore out.

I need a better bike, but everyone is out except those bikes costing $800+.

Does anyone have any mountain bikes in stock?

Andy

I pick up my rim tomorrow which had one spoke replaced and it was trued.

$11

And a Park Tool truing stand is only $299.95 :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.



I built mine out of leftover plywood and angle aluminum.

Errr... I was replying to a guy who had problems adjusting a Vee brake
and you are asking him to build a truing stand?

Horses for courses, as the British say.

--
Cheers,

John B.



No worse than you recommending a $300 trying stand to a guy who’s not
willing to spend $800 on an entire bike :-)

Ah but I wasn't recommending, I was comparing the $11 he paid to fix
and true his wheel to the $300 (actually $299.95) he might pay for a
stand to do it himself.
--
Cheers,

John B.


Truing a wheel in the bike is no less accurate, the result
no better and no worse than using a truing stand.

Building a series of wheels all day long under a good light
in a nice clean truing stand and surrounding workstation is
greatly more efficient and comfortable, but that was not the
OP's problem.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 7/21/2020 7:51 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:13:18 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 8:59:59 AM UTC-5, AK wrote:
On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 6:37:22 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/19/2020 1:44 PM, AK wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 7:59:12 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/18/2020 2:39 AM, AK wrote:
I am having a very hard time adjusting my rear brakes.

I have a mountain bike. Low end. :-)

If I adjust it to where it grabs the rim tightly, it slows my bike
down due to the resistance from the brake touching the rim.

It's very frustrating.

Thanks,
Andy


First off, does your rim run straight without dents ? Any
bearing slop?
Secondly are there kinks or other impedimanta to your cable?

Do your brake pads meet the rim squarely and fully or are
they askew?

Is everything original? Mismatch of standard lever with
long pull linear brake would give that symptom.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Yes to all your questions.

https://imgur.com/a/e61C1L5

https://imgur.com/a/nXBEr1Q


I don't see anything unusual.

Are the cables and brake pivots free moving and lubricated,
tat is, does the brake snap open when you release the lever?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I just found a broken spoke on my rear wheel.

I think my bike is plain wore out.

I need a better bike, but everyone is out except those bikes costing $800+.

Does anyone have any mountain bikes in stock?

Andy

I pick up my rim tomorrow which had one spoke replaced and it was trued.

$11

And a Park Tool truing stand is only $299.95 :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.



I built mine out of leftover plywood and angle aluminum.

I went relatively high tech. I built my first one out of steel. It had
screw-on dropouts that I fitted to the inside of the "fork" part for
front wheels, or to the outside for rear wheels.

But I'm friends with a guy - a brilliant mechanical engineer - who did a
lot of wheel building for Nashbar in the early years, when it was still
called Bike Warehouse. He built the wheels in his basement, and built
his own truing stand out of standard lumber - 2x4s and such. Like
everything this guy built (and builds) it's a thing of beauty.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/21/2020 6:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 07:24:02 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/21/2020 12:40 AM, AK wrote:
On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 9:14:23 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 19:04:34 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 10:49:43 AM UTC-5, Stephen Bauman wrote:
On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 9:59:59 AM UTC-4, AK wrote:

I just found a broken spoke on my rear wheel.

I think my bike is plain wore out.

I need a better bike, but everyone is out except those bikes costing $800+.

Does anyone have any mountain bikes in stock?

Andy

The broken spoke probably means the wheel is wobbling from side to side, when it is spun. This means you had to increase the brake clearance to make sure the brakes did not rub. The increased clearance meant that the brakes did not lock onto the rim, when you applied the brakes.

The first order of business is to replace the broken spoke and true the wheel. You may find there are more than one broken spoke. This is best done by a bike shop.

Once the wheel is fixed, the brakes should be easy to adjust.

Bike is at the shop for spoke replacement and truing.

I saw some material on truing, but it was confusing at best.

Andy

There is a book - "The Bicycle Wheel", by Jobst Brandt, which can be
downloaded that explains the bicycle wheel in excruciating detail, but
it is probably more logical for the average rider to just take the
bike to a bicycle shop :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

That is mostly true.

But as a retired scientist, I love to learn new things.

I will at some point learn how to true a wheel.

Best regards,

Andy

I tried to look at my bearings.

I have greased and repacked them many years ago.

It appears it takes special tools now to do so.



How special? Cone (thin) wrench and a 17mm or adjustable
wrench. Hardly a burden.


Well, to be picky, isn't that cone wrench a special tool :-?

Cone wrenches were the very first bike specific tool I bought. That's
back in the days when I had to think hard about spending just a few bucks.


--
- Frank Krygowski

AMuzi wrote:
On 7/21/2020 2:30 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/21/2020 2:31 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
AK wrote:
On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 10:49:43 AM UTC-5, Stephen Bauman wrote:
On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 9:59:59 AM UTC-4, AK wrote:

I just found a broken spoke on my rear wheel.

I think my bike is plain wore out.

I need a better bike, but everyone is out except those bikes costing $800+.

Does anyone have any mountain bikes in stock?

Andy

The broken spoke probably means the wheel is wobbling from side to side,
when it is spun. This means you had to increase the brake clearance to
make sure the brakes did not rub. The increased clearance meant that the
brakes did not lock onto the rim, when you applied the brakes.

The first order of business is to replace the broken spoke and true the
wheel. You may find there are more than one broken spoke. This is best
done by a bike shop.

Once the wheel is fixed, the brakes should be easy to adjust.

Bike is at the shop for spoke replacement and truing.

I saw some material on truing, but it was confusing at best.

Andy


If you know the right hand rule and have patience and common sense, you can
true a wheel.

Agreed. Or at least, some people can true a wheel. Bike books from the
1970s had illustrations on how to do it with the wheel in the bike,
watching for the wobble at the brake shoes. No tools but a spoke wrench
are really necessary. (And I remember making minor adjustments with a
little adjustable wrench.)

But it does get tricky for many people. There are those who get confused
about which way to spin the nipple to tighten a spoke. There are those
who don't grasp the idea that to move the rim to (say) the right, you
could tighten a right spoke or loosen a left one - or perhaps both.

I recall riding along one day and seeing a beginning cyclists I'd
recently met; he was walking toward a bike shop, carrying a wheel shaped
like a potato chip. I thought he must have had a bad crash, but no.

He said his wheel was a little out of true, so he bought a spoke wrench.
He inflicted the rest of the damage himself.



If things are getting worse, consider not doing what you’re currently
doing.


Good advice for mechanical and management problems generally.

Doesn't apply to politics in any way whatsoever.


Yeah. Ain’t that the truth.

On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 20:51:35 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/21/2020 8:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 00:55:27 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 23:51:19 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:13:18 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 8:59:59 AM UTC-5, AK wrote:
On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 6:37:22 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/19/2020 1:44 PM, AK wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 7:59:12 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/18/2020 2:39 AM, AK wrote:
I am having a very hard time adjusting my rear brakes.

I have a mountain bike. Low end. :-)

If I adjust it to where it grabs the rim tightly, it slows my bike
down due to the resistance from the brake touching the rim.

It's very frustrating.

Thanks,
Andy


First off, does your rim run straight without dents ? Any
bearing slop?
Secondly are there kinks or other impedimanta to your cable?

Do your brake pads meet the rim squarely and fully or are
they askew?

Is everything original? Mismatch of standard lever with
long pull linear brake would give that symptom.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Yes to all your questions.

https://imgur.com/a/e61C1L5

https://imgur.com/a/nXBEr1Q


I don't see anything unusual.

Are the cables and brake pivots free moving and lubricated,
tat is, does the brake snap open when you release the lever?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I just found a broken spoke on my rear wheel.

I think my bike is plain wore out.

I need a better bike, but everyone is out except those bikes costing $800+.

Does anyone have any mountain bikes in stock?

Andy

I pick up my rim tomorrow which had one spoke replaced and it was trued.

$11

And a Park Tool truing stand is only $299.95 :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.



I built mine out of leftover plywood and angle aluminum.

Errr... I was replying to a guy who had problems adjusting a Vee brake
and you are asking him to build a truing stand?

Horses for courses, as the British say.

--
Cheers,

John B.



No worse than you recommending a $300 trying stand to a guy who’s not
willing to spend $800 on an entire bike :-)

Ah but I wasn't recommending, I was comparing the $11 he paid to fix
and true his wheel to the $300 (actually $299.95) he might pay for a
stand to do it himself.
--
Cheers,

John B.


Truing a wheel in the bike is no less accurate, the result
no better and no worse than using a truing stand.

Building a series of wheels all day long under a good light
in a nice clean truing stand and surrounding workstation is
greatly more efficient and comfortable, but that was not the
OP's problem.


If I remember he broke a spoke and the wheel went out of true.
Whereupon he took it to a shop that charged him $11 to replace the
spoke and true the wheel. Which, if I recall, took a couple of days.

Compared to locating a spoke that would fit, cobbling up some sort of
gizmo to use for a truing stand, getting a spoke wrench that fits,
finding the spring loaded clothespin to use with the fork if that is
used as the truing stand and all the to and froing it would take for a
guy who had a problems adjusting a brake to get the wheel trued I
suggest that the $11 is not only the cheapest but the best solution.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 22:06:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/21/2020 7:51 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:13:18 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 8:59:59 AM UTC-5, AK wrote:
On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 6:37:22 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/19/2020 1:44 PM, AK wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 7:59:12 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/18/2020 2:39 AM, AK wrote:
I am having a very hard time adjusting my rear brakes.

I have a mountain bike. Low end. :-)

If I adjust it to where it grabs the rim tightly, it slows my bike
down due to the resistance from the brake touching the rim.

It's very frustrating.

Thanks,
Andy


First off, does your rim run straight without dents ? Any
bearing slop?
Secondly are there kinks or other impedimanta to your cable?

Do your brake pads meet the rim squarely and fully or are
they askew?

Is everything original? Mismatch of standard lever with
long pull linear brake would give that symptom.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Yes to all your questions.

https://imgur.com/a/e61C1L5

https://imgur.com/a/nXBEr1Q


I don't see anything unusual.

Are the cables and brake pivots free moving and lubricated,
tat is, does the brake snap open when you release the lever?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I just found a broken spoke on my rear wheel.

I think my bike is plain wore out.

I need a better bike, but everyone is out except those bikes costing $800+.

Does anyone have any mountain bikes in stock?

Andy

I pick up my rim tomorrow which had one spoke replaced and it was trued.

$11

And a Park Tool truing stand is only $299.95 :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.



I built mine out of leftover plywood and angle aluminum.

I went relatively high tech. I built my first one out of steel. It had
screw-on dropouts that I fitted to the inside of the "fork" part for
front wheels, or to the outside for rear wheels.

But I'm friends with a guy - a brilliant mechanical engineer - who did a
lot of wheel building for Nashbar in the early years, when it was still
called Bike Warehouse. He built the wheels in his basement, and built
his own truing stand out of standard lumber - 2x4s and such. Like
everything this guy built (and builds) it's a thing of beauty.


And with the seven coats of hand polished varnish. and all. it only
took two weeks to make :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 07:22:46 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 23:26:26 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 05:41:48 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 07:24:02 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


How special? Cone (thin) wrench and a 17mm or adjustable wrench.
Hardly a burden.


Well, to be picky, isn't that cone wrench a special tool :-?

err, nope, jst a few square notches in an axle bolt wrench.
OTOH, I do have a circular 'special tool' for the job as well. Although
I have done the work with a standard adjustable wrench in the past.

How did you squeeze a "standard adjustable wrench" in between the lock
nut and the side of the hub? see
https://sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html

Adjusting spokes to true a wheel, fiddly.
Lossening axle nuts, very fiddly, but it helps to take outside nuts off
first and remove/lift wheel. hint, not all cones have narrow wrench
slots, but if you can gang the three nuts on one side to lock that cone
in place, you can adjust 'cone' on other. It is all about relative
friction.

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 04:18:53 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 07:22:46 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 23:26:26 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 05:41:48 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 07:24:02 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


How special? Cone (thin) wrench and a 17mm or adjustable wrench.
Hardly a burden.


Well, to be picky, isn't that cone wrench a special tool :-?

err, nope, jst a few square notches in an axle bolt wrench.
OTOH, I do have a circular 'special tool' for the job as well. Although
I have done the work with a standard adjustable wrench in the past.

How did you squeeze a "standard adjustable wrench" in between the lock
nut and the side of the hub? see
https://sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html

Adjusting spokes to true a wheel, fiddly.
Lossening axle nuts, very fiddly, but it helps to take outside nuts off
first and remove/lift wheel. hint, not all cones have narrow wrench
slots, but if you can gang the three nuts on one side to lock that cone
in place, you can adjust 'cone' on other. It is all about relative
friction.

https://sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html

Gee, I even gave you a reference with pitchers and everthin and you go
nattering on about 3 nuts.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:48:31 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 04:18:53 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 07:22:46 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 23:26:26 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 05:41:48 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 07:24:02 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:


How special? Cone (thin) wrench and a 17mm or adjustable wrench.
Hardly a burden.


Well, to be picky, isn't that cone wrench a special tool :-?

err, nope, jst a few square notches in an axle bolt wrench.
OTOH, I do have a circular 'special tool' for the job as well.
Although I have done the work with a standard adjustable wrench in the
past.

How did you squeeze a "standard adjustable wrench" in between the lock
nut and the side of the hub? see
https://sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html

Adjusting spokes to true a wheel, fiddly.
Lossening axle nuts, very fiddly, but it helps to take outside nuts off
first and remove/lift wheel. hint, not all cones have narrow wrench
slots, but if you can gang the three nuts on one side to lock that cone
in place, you can adjust 'cone' on other. It is all about relative
friction.

https://sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html

Gee, I even gave you a reference with pitchers and everthin and you go
nattering on about 3 nuts.

Oh, if you want me to comment on something new, I'll pass. Unlike your
reference, I specialised in field work. i was just trying to connect your
post to the thread about wheel truing.

On 7/21/2020 10:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 20:51:35 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/21/2020 8:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 00:55:27 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 23:51:19 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:13:18 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 8:59:59 AM UTC-5, AK wrote:
On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 6:37:22 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/19/2020 1:44 PM, AK wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 7:59:12 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/18/2020 2:39 AM, AK wrote:
I am having a very hard time adjusting my rear brakes.

I have a mountain bike. Low end. :-)

If I adjust it to where it grabs the rim tightly, it slows my bike
down due to the resistance from the brake touching the rim.

It's very frustrating.

Thanks,
Andy


First off, does your rim run straight without dents ? Any
bearing slop?
Secondly are there kinks or other impedimanta to your cable?

Do your brake pads meet the rim squarely and fully or are
they askew?

Is everything original? Mismatch of standard lever with
long pull linear brake would give that symptom.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Yes to all your questions.

https://imgur.com/a/e61C1L5

https://imgur.com/a/nXBEr1Q


I don't see anything unusual.

Are the cables and brake pivots free moving and lubricated,
tat is, does the brake snap open when you release the lever?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I just found a broken spoke on my rear wheel.

I think my bike is plain wore out.

I need a better bike, but everyone is out except those bikes costing $800+.

Does anyone have any mountain bikes in stock?

Andy

I pick up my rim tomorrow which had one spoke replaced and it was trued.

$11

And a Park Tool truing stand is only $299.95 :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.



I built mine out of leftover plywood and angle aluminum.

Errr... I was replying to a guy who had problems adjusting a Vee brake
and you are asking him to build a truing stand?

Horses for courses, as the British say.

--
Cheers,

John B.



No worse than you recommending a $300 trying stand to a guy who’s not
willing to spend $800 on an entire bike :-)

Ah but I wasn't recommending, I was comparing the $11 he paid to fix
and true his wheel to the $300 (actually $299.95) he might pay for a
stand to do it himself.
--
Cheers,

John B.


Truing a wheel in the bike is no less accurate, the result
no better and no worse than using a truing stand.

Building a series of wheels all day long under a good light
in a nice clean truing stand and surrounding workstation is
greatly more efficient and comfortable, but that was not the
OP's problem.


If I remember he broke a spoke and the wheel went out of true.
Whereupon he took it to a shop that charged him $11 to replace the
spoke and true the wheel. Which, if I recall, took a couple of days.

Compared to locating a spoke that would fit, cobbling up some sort of
gizmo to use for a truing stand, getting a spoke wrench that fits,
finding the spring loaded clothespin to use with the fork if that is
used as the truing stand and all the to and froing it would take for a
guy who had a problems adjusting a brake to get the wheel trued I
suggest that the $11 is not only the cheapest but the best solution.
--
Cheers,

John B.


I agree he found a suitable resolution.

but 'clothespin' ??

I'm not usually big on organic, natural and recyclable but
for this purpose I prefer my left thumb.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971