"Be Bright - Wear White" vs' "Fight Back - Wear Black"

On 22 Nov 2004 08:35:40 -0800, "Pyromancer"
wrote:

I know this "road positioning" thing is the perceived wisdom, and for
cyclists who travel at speed it may well be true, but as I spend most
of my time at 12mph, I'm not so sure it's a good idea. On the few
occasions I have tried it, it generally results in lots of aggressive
revving of engines from the following traffic, horn blowing, and
suicidal overtaking, plus occasional deliberate attempts to run me off
the road.

The inability of these people to share the road with you is not a good
reason to cower in the gutter.

I find the best place to put my wheels is in the middle of the
left-hand wheeltrack left by the cars - it's usually obvious enough on
the road. This has been swept clear of debris by the thoughtful
cagers, and it puts you where they can see you. It also reminds them
that they have to overtake properly or not at all.

Have you read Cyclecraft? I'm assuming so.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Pyromancer wrote:
I know this "road positioning" thing is the perceived wisdom, and for
cyclists who travel at speed it may well be true, but as I spend most
of my time at 12mph, I'm not so sure it's a good idea. On the few
occasions I have tried it, it generally results in lots of aggressive
revving of engines from the following traffic, horn blowing, and
suicidal overtaking, plus occasional deliberate attempts to run me
off
the road.


I generaly cycle "at speed" on my commute and rarely suffer from
aggressive tailgating or suicidal or murderous overtaking attempts but
I take your point about things being a little different at lower
speeds. I cycle more slowly when hauling children (rear seat and more
lately heavyweight trailer). I still cycle somewhere between the
primary and secondary position but am much more happy to move in to
facilitate overtaking when traveling slowly (esp. up hill). I use a
take-a-look mirror which allows me to get a better feel for the
following traffic (eg closing speeds, road positioning, have they
slowed for me, how late did they slow and how closely are they
following) and decide on the strategy for individual drivers. When
traveling below 10mph I find it more acceptable to swing in between
(for example) clusters of parked cars (assuming that the gap is fairly
long). I sometimes use hand signals to indicate that I want someone to
overtake and try to acknowledge where other traffic has let me out or
held back when overtaking might have been possible but would have been
tight.

Many drivers seem to cut me more slack when they see I am loaded with
children and kiddie trailers still have novelty value on public
highways o/s hotspots such as Cambridge. Perhaps there is a market for
dummy children as a safety aid for cyclists rather like the use of
dummy passengers in HOV lanes

best wishes
james

in message , Richard
') wrote:

Conversely*if
I cycled in the back of beyond on unlit country roads, .... I'd prefer
to be lit up (and retroreflectived up) to the eyeballs.

If you did you'd find out that you're wrong. Living here, when you're
driving at night and come up behind a cyclist, their lights are very
often the only lights (apart from stars and moonlight) that you can
see. Even a basic LED rear light is visible over a mile away, provided
the sight lines are clear; and if the sight lines are not clear being
lit up to the eyeballs won't help.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; single speed mountain bikes: for people who cycle on flat mountains.

No, fraid I've not read "Cyclecraft", though I did read a fair number
of cycling books as a teenager. I've recently joined the library, I'll
see if I can get a copy from them to study.

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:35:04 GMT, Simon Brooke wrote:

in message , Richard
') wrote:

Conversely*if
I cycled in the back of beyond on unlit country roads, .... I'd prefer
to be lit up (and retroreflectived up) to the eyeballs.

If you did you'd find out that you're wrong. Living here, when you're
driving at night and come up behind a cyclist, their lights are very
often the only lights (apart from stars and moonlight) that you can
see. Even a basic LED rear light is visible over a mile away, provided
the sight lines are clear; and if the sight lines are not clear being
lit up to the eyeballs won't help.

Hmmm, there's a difference between something being visible and it grabbing
a driver's attention, isn't there?.
--
Michael MacClancy

in message , Peter Clinch
') wrote:

There's position and there's position. If you're right in the middle
of the road you will be perceived as taking it all up, which a driver
will see as Being Wrong.

I'd frankly far rather be seen as Being Wrong than not be seen at all.

My preferred riding position is approximately as far out from the kerb
as my head would be if I were driving a car - that way I'm right in
their vision and have the best possible chance of being seen.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'graveyards are full of indispensable people'

in message , Michael
MacClancy ') wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:35:04 GMT, Simon Brooke wrote:

in message , Richard
') wrote:

Conversely*if
I cycled in the back of beyond on unlit country roads, .... I'd
prefer to be lit up (and retroreflectived up) to the eyeballs.

If you did you'd find out that you're wrong. Living here, when you're
driving at night and come up behind a cyclist, their lights are very
often the only lights (apart from stars and moonlight) that you can
see. Even a basic LED rear light is visible over a mile away,
provided the sight lines are clear; and if the sight lines are not
clear being lit up to the eyeballs won't help.

Hmmm, there's a difference between something being visible and it
grabbing a driver's attention, isn't there?.

[sigh] If it's the only bloody thing you can see, there isn't a lot
competing for your attention, is there? Of course it grabs your
attention.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; If God does not write LISP, God writes some code so similar to
;; LISP as to make no difference.

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:28:27 +0000, David Martin wrote:



Ever wondered why a car will scrape past a wobbling cyclist with inches to
spare, then leave 6ft clearance to pass a pretty much immobile and unlikely
to jump out or fall over skip? If so, then you need to read up on the theory
of BIG.

http://www.bikereader.com/contributors/misc/big.html

..d

According to that website BIG calculator I should ride my mountain bike
with paniers fitted while stark naked with a 10W+ lamp to get a good BIG
score!

:-D

--
Brian

Simon Brooke wrote:
Even a basic LED rear light is visible over a mile away, provided
the sight lines are clear; and if the sight lines are not clear being
lit up to the eyeballs won't help.

IME if the sight lines aren't clear then a powerful front light is
enormously helpful in slowing down motorists who think that if they
can't see a beam of light coming from around the next bend then the road
must be clear.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Michael MacClancy wrote:
Conversely if
I cycled in the back of beyond on unlit country roads, .... I'd prefer
to be lit up (and retroreflectived up) to the eyeballs.

If you did you'd find out that you're wrong. Living here, when you're
driving at night and come up behind a cyclist, their lights are very
often the only lights (apart from stars and moonlight) that you can
see. Even a basic LED rear light is visible over a mile away, provided
the sight lines are clear; and if the sight lines are not clear being
lit up to the eyeballs won't help.


Hmmm, there's a difference between something being visible and it grabbing
a driver's attention, isn't there?.

Quite. I was cycling home tonight at a briskish pace (for me) and my
brain noted a) single LED rear light ahead, and b) car headlights coming
towards me ahead. I was paying much more attention to (b) and was
rather startled to find myself overtaking (a) much faster than I'd
anticipated. My point is that it's not a question of your visibility
(and hence perceived importance) competing with pitch blackness, it's a
question of competing with car lights.

R.