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Replacing a used front rim



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 19th 18, 01:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Steve Weeks
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Default Replacing a used front rim

On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 7:21:39 PM UTC-5, Steve Weeks wrote:
As others have noted, the "Effective Rim Diameter" (ERD) may vary widely among rims with the same "Bead Seat Diameter" (BSD). Only (*ONLY*) if you find a replacement rim with a BSD that is within a millimeter or two (at the most) will you be able to transfer spokes. Otherwise, you're talking about rebuilding the wheel.


D'oh! I meant "ERD" has to be the same. Sorry.
Steve
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  #12  
Old October 19th 18, 07:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Default Replacing a used front rim

On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 5:21:39 PM UTC-7, Steve Weeks wrote:
As others have noted, the "Effective Rim Diameter" (ERD) may vary widely among rims with the same "Bead Seat Diameter" (BSD). Only (*ONLY*) if you find a replacement rim with a BSD that is within a millimeter or two (at the most) will you be able to transfer spokes. Otherwise, you're talking about rebuilding the wheel.
This is not terribly difficult, but you should get a book about wheelbuilding to give yourself a better idea of what you are getting into. I recommend Roger Musson's book "Wheel Building". It's available at http://petitdragon999.free.fr/VTT/Ro...ilding-v5..pdf
Ideally, you would purchase the book; it's only about $12 dollars or so. It contains a lot of good information, not least how to measure the ERD.
I've used this book to successfully build front and rear wheels for my 700c road bike, and rear wheels for my 20" folder. I've never worn a front rim out, but my folder wears out the rear rim about every 2,000 miles. I've invested in an inexpensive truing stand (Spin Doctor) and a modestly priced spoke tension gauge (Park Tools), plus the usual spoke wrenches and a nipple driver (sounds painful).
Wheel building is fun!
Steve


I can build a wheel and true it in a half hour. This is with spoke tension equal so that it doesn't go out of true. But I don't consider it fun.
  #13  
Old October 19th 18, 10:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Earls61
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Default Replacing a used front rim

That’s great. I bet Andy has you beat!
  #14  
Old October 20th 18, 03:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Steve Weeks
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Default Replacing a used front rim

On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 1:24:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:

I can build a wheel and true it in a half hour. This is with spoke tension equal so that it doesn't go out of true. But I don't consider it fun.


It's a good thing I don't build wheels for a living... it takes me a couple hours. But I'm only building one every couple years, so I enjoy it. :-)

  #15  
Old October 20th 18, 03:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Default Replacing a used front rim

On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 7:51:30 PM UTC-7, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 1:24:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:

I can build a wheel and true it in a half hour. This is with spoke tension equal so that it doesn't go out of true. But I don't consider it fun.


It's a good thing I don't build wheels for a living... it takes me a couple hours. But I'm only building one every couple years, so I enjoy it. :-)


The rim transfer we're talking about here cannot be done in half an hour. It's a tedious job. And building a modern wheel on a deep section rim takes more than half an hour because you have to fish the nipples through the rim.. I used to build wheels as a cottage industry during college, and the standard wheel was a ModE/E2 36 spokes on a Phil or Campy hub, and I could do a front in the half-an-hour range, but I was tightening the nipples to probably 70% of final tension with a power drill. And my tension meter was my hands and ears. I wasn't chasing nipples around in the rim or checking each spoke with a tension meter. I used oil on the nipples and not linseed oil thread lock or some other thread lock, which is pretty SOP these days with lighter rims with no spoke hole reinforcement. Wheel building has also slowed down for me because I have this mass of old spokes and nipples and end up spending time measuring spokes and looking at the lip on the nipple opening to determine whether it is 14 of 15g. Poor housekeeping slows the process..

-- Jay Beattie.
  #16  
Old October 21st 18, 07:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Replacing a used front rim

On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 8:19:26 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:

Wow. There were only about 1000 pairs of Super Record hubs
with titanium axles ever made, early 1974. Quite a rare
thing indeed.


Hell, I didn't even remember that. No wonder I had so many people calling me about that when I put it on Craigslist.
  #17  
Old October 21st 18, 08:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Default Replacing a used front rim

On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 3:39:26 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 7:53:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:

Snipped Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The last time I did it was three or four years ago. I had two of those old Campy wheels with the almost flat rims. I pulled the two wheels apart and put the new rim on in a half hour. One of those wheels had the record hub and the other a super record hub with the high collar. I just happened to time myself and was rather surprised since that was when I was still recovering from my concussion. I even pulled all of the spokes out of the record rim and replaced them all in correct order. It was just like playing a piano. I even still have the spokes from the other wheel around here getting in the way.

But I'm never surprised at what Jay will write. He is growing worse. I wonder if he is getting Alzheimer's?


O.K., let's see if I can wrap my Alzheimer's mind around this -- you took apart two wheels, rebuilt one of them with a new rim, tensioned, trued and stress-relieved that wheel (after having taken apart two wheels) in a half an hour. Hmmm.

-- Jay Beattie.


I think what he means is that he used loose old spokes from one wheel and put the new rim on one of the wheels and then tensioned and possibly stress relieved it all within one half hour. That's NOT counting the time it took him to take apart the wheels. I knew a guy that could build up a wheel from new parts in half an hour but he was a professional with decades of wheel building experience. I think Tom's clock was running quite slow the day he claims to have time himself to one half of an hour. Sorry Tom.

Cheers
  #18  
Old October 21st 18, 09:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Default Replacing a used front rim

On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 12:51:33 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 3:39:26 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 7:53:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:

Snipped Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The last time I did it was three or four years ago. I had two of those old Campy wheels with the almost flat rims. I pulled the two wheels apart and put the new rim on in a half hour. One of those wheels had the record hub and the other a super record hub with the high collar. I just happened to time myself and was rather surprised since that was when I was still recovering from my concussion. I even pulled all of the spokes out of the record rim and replaced them all in correct order. It was just like playing a piano. I even still have the spokes from the other wheel around here getting in the way.

But I'm never surprised at what Jay will write. He is growing worse. I wonder if he is getting Alzheimer's?


O.K., let's see if I can wrap my Alzheimer's mind around this -- you took apart two wheels, rebuilt one of them with a new rim, tensioned, trued and stress-relieved that wheel (after having taken apart two wheels) in a half an hour. Hmmm.

-- Jay Beattie.


I think what he means is that he used loose old spokes from one wheel and put the new rim on one of the wheels and then tensioned and possibly stress relieved it all within one half hour. That's NOT counting the time it took him to take apart the wheels. I knew a guy that could build up a wheel from new parts in half an hour but he was a professional with decades of wheel building experience. I think Tom's clock was running quite slow the day he claims to have time himself to one half of an hour. Sorry Tom.

Cheers


His post is disjointed, so it was not clear to me what he was timing. I used to build a new wheel in about a half an hour -- it's not a big deal when you're doing production work and are building the same wheel over and over. Add in an old rim, or spokes that have to be retrieved from another wheel and replaced in the proper orientation -- or any situation that doesn't involve simply putting new components together, then it slows. Having tools and materials organized in advance also makes things go faster. I'll spend an long time just sorting through old spokes and nipples if I'm building some beater wheel from parts.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #19  
Old October 21st 18, 09:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Replacing a used front rim

On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 12:51:33 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 3:39:26 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 7:53:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:

Snipped Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The last time I did it was three or four years ago. I had two of those old Campy wheels with the almost flat rims. I pulled the two wheels apart and put the new rim on in a half hour. One of those wheels had the record hub and the other a super record hub with the high collar. I just happened to time myself and was rather surprised since that was when I was still recovering from my concussion. I even pulled all of the spokes out of the record rim and replaced them all in correct order. It was just like playing a piano. I even still have the spokes from the other wheel around here getting in the way.

But I'm never surprised at what Jay will write. He is growing worse. I wonder if he is getting Alzheimer's?


O.K., let's see if I can wrap my Alzheimer's mind around this -- you took apart two wheels, rebuilt one of them with a new rim, tensioned, trued and stress-relieved that wheel (after having taken apart two wheels) in a half an hour. Hmmm.

-- Jay Beattie.


I think what he means is that he used loose old spokes from one wheel and put the new rim on one of the wheels and then tensioned and possibly stress relieved it all within one half hour. That's NOT counting the time it took him to take apart the wheels. I knew a guy that could build up a wheel from new parts in half an hour but he was a professional with decades of wheel building experience. I think Tom's clock was running quite slow the day he claims to have time himself to one half of an hour. Sorry Tom.

Cheers


I removed an old rim and replaced it with a different like rim using the old spokes that had been removed from the hub in the process of taking the old rim off. What do you find difficult about this? While cutting and threading new spokes would certainly absorb a lot more time throwing the old spokes into the new rim is only a matter of threading the nipples on by hand to finger tight and doing them in such an order that you can do final tightening with a spoke wrench. That ANYONE that has built wheels isn't aware that this takes only the time to make sure that you have the spoke crossings correct makes me wonder why any of you would talk about it. It never gave me a moment's problem and I only happened to notice how long it took and it didn't surprise me in the least.

What I find difficult to believe is that Jay who has shown the engineering capacity of a horse, thinks that he could build good wheels.
  #20  
Old October 21st 18, 11:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Default Replacing a used front rim

On 10/21/2018 3:18 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 12:51:33 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 3:39:26 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 7:53:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:

Snipped Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The last time I did it was three or four years ago. I had two of those old Campy wheels with the almost flat rims. I pulled the two wheels apart and put the new rim on in a half hour. One of those wheels had the record hub and the other a super record hub with the high collar. I just happened to time myself and was rather surprised since that was when I was still recovering from my concussion. I even pulled all of the spokes out of the record rim and replaced them all in correct order. It was just like playing a piano. I even still have the spokes from the other wheel around here getting in the way.

But I'm never surprised at what Jay will write. He is growing worse. I wonder if he is getting Alzheimer's?

O.K., let's see if I can wrap my Alzheimer's mind around this -- you took apart two wheels, rebuilt one of them with a new rim, tensioned, trued and stress-relieved that wheel (after having taken apart two wheels) in a half an hour. Hmmm.

-- Jay Beattie.


I think what he means is that he used loose old spokes from one wheel and put the new rim on one of the wheels and then tensioned and possibly stress relieved it all within one half hour. That's NOT counting the time it took him to take apart the wheels. I knew a guy that could build up a wheel from new parts in half an hour but he was a professional with decades of wheel building experience. I think Tom's clock was running quite slow the day he claims to have time himself to one half of an hour. Sorry Tom.

Cheers


I removed an old rim and replaced it with a different like rim using the old spokes that had been removed from the hub in the process of taking the old rim off. What do you find difficult about this? While cutting and threading new spokes would certainly absorb a lot more time throwing the old spokes into the new rim is only a matter of threading the nipples on by hand to finger tight and doing them in such an order that you can do final tightening with a spoke wrench. That ANYONE that has built wheels isn't aware that this takes only the time to make sure that you have the spoke crossings correct makes me wonder why any of you would talk about it. It never gave me a moment's problem and I only happened to notice how long it took and it didn't surprise me in the least.

What I find difficult to believe is that Jay who has shown the engineering capacity of a horse, thinks that he could build good wheels.

"cutting and threading new spokes would certainly absorb a
lot more time"

Which is why for ~98% of wheel builds we just pull up a case
of the correct length spoke. If more than 'every once in a
long while' wheels take more than 30 minutes, you're not
making any money.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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