question about climbing

On 7/27/2018 3:17 PM, Joerg wrote:

I hate climbs. The other thing is, I never know how steep something is
because there aren't any signs and even topo maps are not very useful
for finding out.

Here you go: https://www.cantitoeroad.com/Inclinometer_c_32.html

Maybe $25.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/27/2018 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 3:05:39 PM UTC-7, wrote:

We just have been watching the Tour de France where all of the strongest riders in the world are straining in low gears to go over 12% and you're making comments as if you could ride up a stairway.

No Tom, I got off my bike and walked an actual staircase. Look at the picture. We have those in Portland. Some are slippery wooden structures: https://tinyurl.com/y8wtmfoh And some are nice, tidy cement stairs.http://gentleartofwandering.com/wp-c...2-1024x768.jpg https://tinyurl.com/y7jk86ym

I'm betting that Pittsburgh has Portland beat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steps_of_Pittsburgh

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 4:48:16 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 3:05:39 PM UTC-7, wrote:

We just have been watching the Tour de France where all of the strongest riders in the world are straining in low gears to go over 12% and you're making comments as if you could ride up a stairway.

No Tom, I got off my bike and walked an actual staircase. Look at the picture. We have those in Portland. Some are slippery wooden structures: https://tinyurl.com/y8wtmfoh And some are nice, tidy cement stairs.http://gentleartofwandering.com/wp-c...2-1024x768.jpg https://tinyurl.com/y7jk86ym

I'm betting that Pittsburgh has Portland beat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steps_of_Pittsburgh

Notwithstanding Pittsburgh's claim to fame, we do have the steepest road in THE WORLD! http://www.offbeatoregon.com/H1010b_...st-street.html

As for stairs, there are some long ones: https://tinyurl.com/y9s9mfn9 But we're not breaking any records. They are just part of the landscape. My knees are so wrecked, I prefer to stay on my bike anyway. Coming home from the shindig last night, stairs were my only option unless I wanted to go down and then go up again. That wasn't going to happen.

-- Jay Beattie.

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 3:17 PM, Joerg wrote:

I hate climbs. The other thing is, I never know how steep something is
because there aren't any signs and even topo maps are not very useful
for finding out.

Here you go: https://www.cantitoeroad.com/Inclinometer_c_32.html

Maybe $25.


But avoid sudden acceleration/deceleration, as it will cause an error in
the opposite direction that you would initially think it would.

On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 4:12:26 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 3:54:33 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 3:05:39 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 2:07:59 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:17:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-22 11:33, wrote:
I live in the flatlands and not a great climber but pretty solid
rider. I have done some climbs according to various categories that
are 3 and 4 rated. I got them ok on a 34-28 but not just easy. So I
see the Alpe D'Huez and the rating plus going up 8 % for over 8 miles
seems a bit much for me to comprehend.

Do most mortals who do the Alpe D"Huez go up without stopping during
the climb?
... One climb I do is overall about 6% and it goes on for 1.2
miles. The very last section gets to 9% or about maybe 1/4 mile.. I
tell you I can get up no problem but I just cannot see keep that up
for another 7 miles. I am pretty spent the last 200 feet.


I hate climbs. The other thing is, I never know how steep something is
because there aren't any signs and even topo maps are not very useful
for finding out.


So I assume those climbing these on tours and such are pretty decent
cyclist but what gearing. Would a 34-32 really make it that much
easier to manage than say a 34-28 that I use now.


Every tooth more in back or less in front helps. Unfortuntely my current
road bike is limited to 42-32. When I was young and also weighed less I
could scale all hills with 42-21 but that was more than 30 years ago. It
is probably the reason why to this day I ride with much lower cadence
than others. Which tends to make bottom bracket bearings suffer. The BB
in my road bike has maybe 2000-3000 miles on it and already starts to
make clicking noises, despite picking an expensive one.


... They say sitting is
the best way to climb but I guess I just do not do enough of it to
really tell. I do know that when I am around more hilly terrain after
a few days I get better at climbing.


Same here but you have to keep at it at least once a week. Climbing
endurance is quickly lost.


Does the average cyclist planning to climb something like the Alpe D
Huez factor in a break of a few minutes at some point or points..


For me that entirely depends on whether there is a good saloon along the
way 8-)


... Any climbing experts in this group.


I am certainly not one. To me climbs are just a necessary evil of living
in a hilly area. It's always a net 1200ft coming back from the valley
with lots of ups and downs in between. Unfortunately it is not always
possible to let'er rip on the downhills to gain momentum.

You should get a Garmin or ride with someone who has one to see what the real elevation gain is between Sacto and Cameron Park. Saw-tooth climbs count extra, probably 50%.

I did 1,200 feet of climbing in about three or so miles to get home after work last night, most of that after stopping at a work shindig in the lower West Hills. 16% climb to get to the gathering, then after leaving, about a 45% climb on stairs to get to a connector street. https://tinyurl.com/yc5pukmy And then various grades for the next few miles and then down to my neighborhood. Climbing advice: don't sit around eating pizza and beer and gin-and-tonics and then go climb. That's why I don't get the whole sitting around at pubs thing. I lose all desire to ride after drinking.

-- Jay Beattie.

OSHA approved stairways are 32 degrees max which is 62.5%. A 45% stairway is about 24 degrees. VERY few people can climb a 23% climb (13 degrees). I can only climb 23% in a 30/28 as long as it isn't more than a block long and I'm fresh.


We just have been watching the Tour de France where all of the strongest riders in the world are straining in low gears to go over 12% and you're making comments as if you could ride up a stairway.

No Tom, I got off my bike and walked an actual staircase. Look at the picture. We have those in Portland. Some are slippery wooden structures: https://tinyurl.com/y8wtmfoh And some are nice, tidy cement stairs.http://gentleartofwandering.com/wp-c...2-1024x768.jpg https://tinyurl.com/y7jk86ym Even in my 'hood which is at a lower elevation, my most frequent route home is bisected by a half-mile stair case. Frisky pedestrians can beat me walking because the road zig-zags up a scarp. It's embarrassing. I have to hit the gas to beat them. Here's the start of the stairs: https://tinyurl.com/yb5uul6c I ride up that broken-up goat road.
Here's where the stairs hit the top, next to that house. https://tinyurl.com/y9qsv885 I've done the hike-a-bike, and its not really much fun. I prefer the road, although continuing on my ride home, I do have to climb some stairs -- but I ride the dirt path next to the stairs until I stall out or lose traction, which usually happens at about the same point. It's tricky getting off my bike without slipping down the hill.


-- Jay Beattie.

I was being sarcastic about how lightly you treat grades. I am now over 80,000 ft for the year where I get in 2200 to 4,000 feet in a ride all over 6%. I don't find climbing to be easy and it's hardly something to talk about as if it is. When I went down to Phoenix most of the people down there were having problems with overpasses. There was a 5% rise on one route and everyone was down into a 34/32.

Sure you can climb but it requires a lot of practice. And you speaking of going up steep climbs half lit doesn't impress me that you're doing much climbing.

After drinking last night, I did maybe 900 feet of climbing. I was just going home and not trying to set some hill-climb record. I was about a third-lit, but it was hot and felt like half-lit. I was totally Joerg-ish, riding in cargo shorts and a tee-shirt. Gawd. Nothing like sweaty cotton.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 2018-07-27 18:27, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 3:17 PM, Joerg wrote:

I hate climbs. The other thing is, I never know how steep something is
because there aren't any signs and even topo maps are not very useful
for finding out.

Here you go: https://www.cantitoeroad.com/Inclinometer_c_32.html

Maybe $25.


But avoid sudden acceleration/deceleration, as it will cause an error in
the opposite direction that you would initially think it would.


Yup. also only goes to 20% but one can offset that first to -10% or so
for uphill.

Might as well use a thin thread and a #6 nut plus a paper gauge at the
lower seat tube - 0$.

I was hoping there'd be some sort of bike map online that has these
percentages on it. For some (few) singletrack there is.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2018-07-27 19:36, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 4:12:26 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 3:54:33 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 3:05:39 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 2:07:59 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:17:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-22 11:33, wrote:
I live in the flatlands and not a great climber but
pretty solid rider. I have done some climbs according to
various categories that are 3 and 4 rated. I got them ok
on a 34-28 but not just easy. So I see the Alpe D'Huez
and the rating plus going up 8 % for over 8 miles seems a
bit much for me to comprehend.

Do most mortals who do the Alpe D"Huez go up without
stopping during the climb? ... One climb I do is overall
about 6% and it goes on for 1.2 miles. The very last
section gets to 9% or about maybe 1/4 mile. I tell you I
can get up no problem but I just cannot see keep that up
for another 7 miles. I am pretty spent the last 200
feet.


I hate climbs. The other thing is, I never know how steep
something is because there aren't any signs and even topo
maps are not very useful for finding out.


So I assume those climbing these on tours and such are
pretty decent cyclist but what gearing. Would a 34-32
really make it that much easier to manage than say a
34-28 that I use now.


Every tooth more in back or less in front helps.
Unfortuntely my current road bike is limited to 42-32. When
I was young and also weighed less I could scale all hills
with 42-21 but that was more than 30 years ago. It is
probably the reason why to this day I ride with much lower
cadence than others. Which tends to make bottom bracket
bearings suffer. The BB in my road bike has maybe 2000-3000
miles on it and already starts to make clicking noises,
despite picking an expensive one.


... They say sitting is the best way to climb but I guess
I just do not do enough of it to really tell. I do know
that when I am around more hilly terrain after a few days
I get better at climbing.


Same here but you have to keep at it at least once a week.
Climbing endurance is quickly lost.


Does the average cyclist planning to climb something like
the Alpe D Huez factor in a break of a few minutes at
some point or points.


For me that entirely depends on whether there is a good
saloon along the way 8-)


... Any climbing experts in this group.


I am certainly not one. To me climbs are just a necessary
evil of living in a hilly area. It's always a net 1200ft
coming back from the valley with lots of ups and downs in
between. Unfortunately it is not always possible to let'er
rip on the downhills to gain momentum.

You should get a Garmin or ride with someone who has one to
see what the real elevation gain is between Sacto and Cameron
Park. Saw-tooth climbs count extra, probably 50%.

I did 1,200 feet of climbing in about three or so miles to
get home after work last night, most of that after stopping
at a work shindig in the lower West Hills. 16% climb to get
to the gathering, then after leaving, about a 45% climb on
stairs to get to a connector street.
https://tinyurl.com/yc5pukmy And then various grades for the
next few miles and then down to my neighborhood. Climbing
advice: don't sit around eating pizza and beer and
gin-and-tonics and then go climb. That's why I don't get the
whole sitting around at pubs thing. I lose all desire to
ride after drinking.

-- Jay Beattie.

OSHA approved stairways are 32 degrees max which is 62.5%. A
45% stairway is about 24 degrees. VERY few people can climb a
23% climb (13 degrees). I can only climb 23% in a 30/28 as long
as it isn't more than a block long and I'm fresh.


We just have been watching the Tour de France where all of the
strongest riders in the world are straining in low gears to go
over 12% and you're making comments as if you could ride up a
stairway.

No Tom, I got off my bike and walked an actual staircase. Look
at the picture. We have those in Portland. Some are slippery
wooden structures: https://tinyurl.com/y8wtmfoh And some are
nice, tidy cement
stairs.http://gentleartofwandering.com/wp-c...2-1024x768.jpg
https://tinyurl.com/y7jk86ym Even in my 'hood which is at a
lower elevation, my most frequent route home is bisected by a
half-mile stair case. Frisky pedestrians can beat me walking
because the road zig-zags up a scarp. It's embarrassing. I have
to hit the gas to beat them. Here's the start of the stairs:
https://tinyurl.com/yb5uul6c I ride up that broken-up goat road.
Here's where the stairs hit the top, next to that house.
https://tinyurl.com/y9qsv885 I've done the hike-a-bike, and its
not really much fun. I prefer the road, although continuing on my
ride home, I do have to climb some stairs -- but I ride the dirt
path next to the stairs until I stall out or lose traction, which
usually happens at about the same point. It's tricky getting off
my bike without slipping down the hill.


-- Jay Beattie.

I was being sarcastic about how lightly you treat grades. I am now
over 80,000 ft for the year where I get in 2200 to 4,000 feet in a
ride all over 6%. I don't find climbing to be easy and it's hardly
something to talk about as if it is. When I went down to Phoenix
most of the people down there were having problems with overpasses.
There was a 5% rise on one route and everyone was down into a
34/32.

Sure you can climb but it requires a lot of practice. And you
speaking of going up steep climbs half lit doesn't impress me that
you're doing much climbing.

After drinking last night, I did maybe 900 feet of climbing. I was
just going home and not trying to set some hill-climb record. I was
about a third-lit, but it was hot and felt like half-lit. I was
totally Joerg-ish, riding in cargo shorts and a tee-shirt. Gawd.
Nothing like sweaty cotton.


Doesn't bother me one bit. The major upside of cotton is that you can
jump into a lake or get soaked under a playground sprinkler. Afterwards
you have an evaporative cooler on your body that runs 1/2h or so, for
free. For situations where jumping in isn't suitable I carry a cleaned
empty yoghurt beker. Weighs next to nothing but I can slosh water over
myself which then soaks the T-shirt.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 7/27/2018 9:27 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 3:17 PM, Joerg wrote:

I hate climbs. The other thing is, I never know how steep something is
because there aren't any signs and even topo maps are not very useful
for finding out.

Here you go: https://www.cantitoeroad.com/Inclinometer_c_32.html

Maybe $25.


But avoid sudden acceleration/deceleration, as it will cause an error in
the opposite direction that you would initially think it would.

Right.

I have one on one bike. It seems to work reasonably well, although I
think it would have worked better with a more viscous fluid.
--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/28/2018 10:35 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-27 18:27, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 3:17 PM, Joerg wrote:

I hate climbs. The other thing is, I never know how steep something is
because there aren't any signs and even topo maps are not very useful
for finding out.

Here you go: https://www.cantitoeroad.com/Inclinometer_c_32.html

Maybe $25.


But avoid sudden acceleration/deceleration, as it will cause an error in
the opposite direction that you would initially think it would.


Yup. also only goes to 20% but one can offset that first to -10% or so
for uphill.

Might as well use a thin thread and a #6 nut plus a paper gauge at the
lower seat tube - 0$.

Not if you want to read it while riding.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/28/2018 10:39 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-27 19:36, jbeattie wrote:
Gawd.
Nothing like sweaty cotton.


Doesn't bother me one bit. The major upside of cotton is that you can
jump into a lake or get soaked under a playground sprinkler. Afterwards
you have an evaporative cooler on your body that runs 1/2h or so, for
free.

To illustrate the differences in climate: Tuesday, visiting family in
another town, I was riding around town in ordinary cotton shorts that
had gotten badly splashed with water. They were still slightly moist six
hours later.

The humidity is the reason nobody around here bothers with mist coolers
on hot days. Water evaporates too slowly to have much cooling effect.

--
- Frank Krygowski