Cartridge bottom brackets

On 4/8/2017 5:23 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 4/8/2017 12:27 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 2:04:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 10:48:45 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 1:43:44 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
Snipped

I have never worn out a bottom bracket or a headset. And I don't
maintain them all that well. Pulling them out every couple of
years, cleaning and greasing them where necessary is all that I
have done. I put so many miles on components (except this year
dammit) that if there was any particular weakness in these parts I
would have spotted it.

Last year a friend got me to come to his place to fix a loose bottom
bracket on a bicycle he was given. It was a Shimano cartridge one
that I forget the # of but it was very unusual in thatthe spindle
had snapped at the shoulder on the left side. I meant to get a
picture of the broken parts but he chucked it before i returned
later with the camera. I've never heard or seen another cartridge
bottom bracket with a broken spindle.

Cheers

We have to remember that wear and manufacturing errors is something
altogether different.

That is true. However I do wish I'd been able to get images of the
broken parts as it would have been interesting to discover how and why
it broke. like i said, I've never seen or heard of another square
taper cartridge bottom braket spindle breaking..

I think that when square-taper spindles dominated the market, spindle
breakages were common enough.

I broke one at the taper/round junction, just outboard of the bearing
surface, on my tandem (~1990). It didn't separate completely, just
"peeled" partway in a spiral. The effect was of the crank suddenly
tilting so that it gyrated as we pedaled.

I think Jobst wrote that this was the common failure location/mode.

I kept the spindle as a souvenir.

Here is a pardo.net photo collection of similar failures, none quite
like mine: http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/0...ttom%20Bracket

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-192.html is particularly
informative.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 5:51:48 PM UTC-4, Barry Beams wrote:
On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 1:57:50 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing the old three piece BB on one of my bikes
with a Shimano cartridge bearing and I see that Shimano markets a
UN-26 and UN-55 cartridge bottom bracket. I believe that the UN-26
has a solid spindle and a plastic bushing on the non-drive side while
there is reference to a hollow spindle and steel bushing on the UN-55.
Both are made for the 69 and 73 mm frames and in roughly the same
spindle lengths.

In normal use is there a practical difference? Disregarding the weight
difference, if any, is there a noticeable difference in service life?

The UN-26 seems to be the cheaper version and is quite common in shops
here while the UN-55 is somewhat rare, probably due to price. But if
the UN-55 lasts (for example) five years while the UN-26 only lasts
two years it is probably worth searching out the higher priced
version.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Yes, Tange's base of operations is in Taiwan. They then use cheap Chinese manufacturing for many of their mundane components. They also made some top of the line steel bicycle frame tubing for serious classics of the past, including bikes like my '92 Schwinn Paramount.
Do not buy from Tange. They are now EVIL.
Tange tried to steal my design back in 2012, costing me six figures in additional costs to bring Oculus to market compared to the licensing deal that Merry Sales signed, then broke when I rejected Tange's cheap crap unauthorized design changes. Tange and Merry Sales intended to do a cheap crap version of my light that would make them a quick buck, then the crap quality would leave me over and done with nothing left to show for it.
So Tange and Merry Sales can rot in hell, but definitely do _Not buy Tange.
Do go with Phil Wood bearings. The Best, for BB's, hubs, anywhere else on the bike.

Not everyone can afford Phil's stuff.

Do you offer a refund if your light does NOT meet a customer;'s needs?

Cheers

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 4:19:59 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 5:51:48 PM UTC-4, Barry Beams wrote:
On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 1:57:50 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing the old three piece BB on one of my bikes
with a Shimano cartridge bearing and I see that Shimano markets a
UN-26 and UN-55 cartridge bottom bracket. I believe that the UN-26
has a solid spindle and a plastic bushing on the non-drive side while
there is reference to a hollow spindle and steel bushing on the UN-55..
Both are made for the 69 and 73 mm frames and in roughly the same
spindle lengths.

In normal use is there a practical difference? Disregarding the weight
difference, if any, is there a noticeable difference in service life?

The UN-26 seems to be the cheaper version and is quite common in shops
here while the UN-55 is somewhat rare, probably due to price. But if
the UN-55 lasts (for example) five years while the UN-26 only lasts
two years it is probably worth searching out the higher priced
version.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Yes, Tange's base of operations is in Taiwan. They then use cheap Chinese manufacturing for many of their mundane components. They also made some top of the line steel bicycle frame tubing for serious classics of the past, including bikes like my '92 Schwinn Paramount.
Do not buy from Tange. They are now EVIL.
Tange tried to steal my design back in 2012, costing me six figures in additional costs to bring Oculus to market compared to the licensing deal that Merry Sales signed, then broke when I rejected Tange's cheap crap unauthorized design changes. Tange and Merry Sales intended to do a cheap crap version of my light that would make them a quick buck, then the crap quality would leave me over and done with nothing left to show for it.
So Tange and Merry Sales can rot in hell, but definitely do _Not buy Tange.
Do go with Phil Wood bearings. The Best, for BB's, hubs, anywhere else on the bike.

Not everyone can afford Phil's stuff.

Do you offer a refund if your light does NOT meet a customer;'s needs?

Cheers


Questions like that posted publicly come across as troll bait. What I post here is posted personally. Business inquiries should be directed to , or call (323) 487-2002 M-F 10:00AM - 8:00PM PST.
Personally, after just finishing light sales and support for another Double Century, today's was the Mulholland Challenge, there a a solid core devout Oculus users who continue to show off and turn on other bikers in a semi-viral sales ratio. No one has had any issues beyond getting the hang of the triple-click switching, or the need to apply the silicone grip tape and pulling the velcro tight to make a fully secure mounting.
The on-site lighting sales and support program with Planet Ultra events is proving to be nicely successful, more than justifying the time and expense. The Mulholland Challenge had four new Oculus users. Two started as rentals, who then chose to keep their lights and buy them.
Two other riders barely on the edge of making the time cutoff at the last rest stop came in very pleased with both their total confidence that they had plenty of battery to finish the event with, and the visibility of the beam on the ten hour burn time setting they were using for their 15 - 20mph steady pace. Plus, they were carrying the spare extra batter that included with every Oculus at no extra charge.
With the ten hour at 20 mph setting on Oculus, plus that the user can quickly replace the battery in the field if needed, few remain to argue that generators are the only way to guarantee all night long lighting. One rider was asking about an Oculus for PBP A rider can go with one battery each night, so three pre-charged spares would be plenty. That's less extra weight than what a generator system and wiring adds, with greater simplicity, no drag on the wheel, and far superior visibility.

On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 2:41:47 AM UTC-4, Barry Beams wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 4:19:59 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 5:51:48 PM UTC-4, Barry Beams wrote:
On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 1:57:50 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing the old three piece BB on one of my bikes
with a Shimano cartridge bearing and I see that Shimano markets a
UN-26 and UN-55 cartridge bottom bracket. I believe that the UN-26
has a solid spindle and a plastic bushing on the non-drive side while
there is reference to a hollow spindle and steel bushing on the UN-55.
Both are made for the 69 and 73 mm frames and in roughly the same
spindle lengths.

In normal use is there a practical difference? Disregarding the weight
difference, if any, is there a noticeable difference in service life?

The UN-26 seems to be the cheaper version and is quite common in shops
here while the UN-55 is somewhat rare, probably due to price. But if
the UN-55 lasts (for example) five years while the UN-26 only lasts
two years it is probably worth searching out the higher priced
version.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Yes, Tange's base of operations is in Taiwan. They then use cheap Chinese manufacturing for many of their mundane components. They also made some top of the line steel bicycle frame tubing for serious classics of the past, including bikes like my '92 Schwinn Paramount.
Do not buy from Tange. They are now EVIL.
Tange tried to steal my design back in 2012, costing me six figures in additional costs to bring Oculus to market compared to the licensing deal that Merry Sales signed, then broke when I rejected Tange's cheap crap unauthorized design changes. Tange and Merry Sales intended to do a cheap crap version of my light that would make them a quick buck, then the crap quality would leave me over and done with nothing left to show for it.
So Tange and Merry Sales can rot in hell, but definitely do _Not buy Tange.
Do go with Phil Wood bearings. The Best, for BB's, hubs, anywhere else on the bike.

Not everyone can afford Phil's stuff.

Do you offer a refund if your light does NOT meet a customer;'s needs?

Cheers


Questions like that posted publicly come across as troll bait. What I post here is posted personally. Business inquiries should be directed to , or call (323) 487-2002 M-F 10:00AM - 8:00PM PST.
Personally, after just finishing light sales and support for another Double Century, today's was the Mulholland Challenge, there a a solid core devout Oculus users who continue to show off and turn on other bikers in a semi-viral sales ratio. No one has had any issues beyond getting the hang of the triple-click switching, or the need to apply the silicone grip tape and pulling the velcro tight to make a fully secure mounting.
The on-site lighting sales and support program with Planet Ultra events is proving to be nicely successful, more than justifying the time and expense. The Mulholland Challenge had four new Oculus users. Two started as rentals, who then chose to keep their lights and buy them.
Two other riders barely on the edge of making the time cutoff at the last rest stop came in very pleased with both their total confidence that they had plenty of battery to finish the event with, and the visibility of the beam on the ten hour burn time setting they were using for their 15 - 20mph steady pace. Plus, they were carrying the spare extra batter that included with every Oculus at no extra charge.
With the ten hour at 20 mph setting on Oculus, plus that the user can quickly replace the battery in the field if needed, few remain to argue that generators are the only way to guarantee all night long lighting. One rider was asking about an Oculus for PBP A rider can go with one battery each night, so three pre-charged spares would be plenty. That's less extra weight than what a generator system and wiring adds, with greater simplicity, no drag on the wheel, and far superior visibility.

You are here marketting your light. You boast about about your light and how great it is but you will not provide a simple yes or no to a simple question about whether you offer a refund if the light is unsatisfactory. Thus I'll stay with product from someone who DOES offer such a warranty.

Cheers

On 09/04/17 16:41, Barry Beams wrote:

Personally, after just finishing light sales and
support for another Double Century, today's was the Mulholland
Challenge, there a a solid core devout Oculus users who continue to
show off and turn on other bikers in a semi-viral sales ratio. No
one has had any issues beyond getting the hang of the triple-click
switching, or the need to apply the silicone grip tape and pulling
the velcro tight to make a fully secure mounting. The on-site
lighting sales and support program with Planet Ultra events is
proving to be nicely successful, more than justifying the time and
expense. The Mulholland Challenge had four new Oculus users. Two
started as rentals, who then chose to keep their lights and buy
them. Two other riders barely on the edge of making the time cutoff
at the last rest stop came in very pleased with both their total
confidence that they had plenty of battery to finish the event with,
and the visibility of the beam on the ten hour burn time setting they
were using for their 15 - 20mph steady pace. Plus, they were
carrying the spare extra batter that included with every Oculus at no
extra charge. With the ten hour at 20 mph setting on Oculus, plus
that the user can quickly replace the battery in the field if needed,
few remain to argue that generators are the only way to guarantee all
night long lighting. One rider was asking about an Oculus for PBP A
rider can go with one battery each night, so three pre-charged spares
would be plenty. That's less extra weight than what a generator
system and wiring adds, with greater simplicity, no drag on the
wheel, and far superior visibility.



I still haven't given my lights any attention or thought beyond turning
them on and off. I used my bicycle lights several times for hours at a
time recently while on a 9 day cycling touring holiday, for before
sunrise starts and during bad weather and fog.

No thoughts of silicone grip or velcro, or additional handlebar clutter,
as my front light is securely attached to the fork crown with the front
brake.

I had no issue with extra weight, or the "complexity" of wiring, or even
unnoticeable drag, with totally acceptable visibility.

--
JS

On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 8:30:34 AM UTC+1, James wrote:

I still haven't given my lights any attention or thought beyond turning
them on and off. I used my bicycle lights several times for hours at a
time recently while on a 9 day cycling touring holiday, for before
sunrise starts and during bad weather and fog.

No thoughts of silicone grip or velcro, or additional handlebar clutter,
as my front light is securely attached to the fork crown with the front
brake.

I had no issue with extra weight, or the "complexity" of wiring, or even
unnoticeable drag, with totally acceptable visibility.

--
JS

You make an interesting point, James.

We can fix the moment exactly when bicycle generator lamps transitioned from being crap (as you could tell from the irrationally passionate defences of dim glimmers here by the dimmer glimmers among the BUMMbuddies) to being adequate. It happened when the BUMM Cyo was first marketed. The Cyo was a lamp no dimmer than VW Beetle lamps from the 6V era, and thus by historical precedent "adequate". There's more to "adequate" bicycle lamps than just enough light output, and shaping it "correctly" to the road, signs, overhead obstructions, not to blind oncoming motorists, not all of which the Cyo actually meets, but then neither did the Beetle (nor, disgracefully, a whole bunch of fast cars from back in the 60s). On balance though the first series Cyo was an eye opener, because it was so shocking how far from sufficiency was every generator lamp before that went before.

But a generator lamp must not only be adequate in the moment to its exigencies, it must be a reliable and constant companion at least till the dawn breaks. And we can fix the moment it became a constant, reliable companion, too. It was when LED light sources appeared to replace limited-life globes. Ironically the generators themselves were always, and certainly in the hub generator age, reliable enough, even the cheapish Sanyo that formed the basis of Shimano's enduring hub generator line.

I think it is great that the other day when a kid inspecting my Cyo asked, "Where's the switch, sir?" I couldn't tell him, because I just leave the thing on whenever the bike moves, so it's been on for years. (Reading the manual on returning home...)

Andre Jute
Illuminati, er, illuminated, er, anyhow, I can see

On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 07:47:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 5:56:55 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2017 3:57 AM, John B. wrote:

I'm thinking of replacing the old three piece BB on one of my bikes
with a Shimano cartridge bearing and I see that Shimano markets a
UN-26 and UN-55 cartridge bottom bracket. I believe that the UN-26
has a solid spindle and a plastic bushing on the non-drive side while
there is reference to a hollow spindle and steel bushing on the UN-55.
Both are made for the 69 and 73 mm frames and in roughly the same
spindle lengths.

In normal use is there a practical difference? Disregarding the weight
difference, if any, is there a noticeable difference in service life?

The UN-26 seems to be the cheaper version and is quite common in shops
here while the UN-55 is somewhat rare, probably due to price. But if
the UN-55 lasts (for example) five years while the UN-26 only lasts
two years it is probably worth searching out the higher priced
version.

No practical difference and I believe both are hollow
spindle now (earlier less expensive models were solid). In
theory, higher quality bearing on the 55 but neither are
true replaceable cartridge bearings[1]. Nylon vs metal left
cup is an argument without practical relevance and the
outside spacer of either spindle may be removed and thrown
out to no detriment.

[1] A pair of name-brand premium seal cartridge bearings
cost more than either Shimano BB:
http://www.philwood.com/products/bearinghome.php

The last one I bought with the plastic didn't even have enough
length for an outside spacer as you say to no detriment.

I am now off Chris King and other high end stuff forever.
I took my fork into the shop to have the bottom cup (actually little
more than a spacer) removed from my Colnago fork and using the Park
tool it couldn't remove that cup without deforming it on a damn
aluminum shank.

Why should I pay $150 for a King headset when I can get an Orange of near equal quality for $10?

At a recent bike show in Bangkok a bunch of Chinese parts makers were
showing their products. I stopped at one stall where guy was showing
head sets and asked him how much a complete 1" head set would be. Of
course he didn't sell one set at a time but in wholesale batches but
he did calculate what one head set would cost a bicycle maker...
US$1.45.

On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 08:36:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 8:05:01 AM UTC-7, Robert Liebermann wrote:
I recommend the Tange LN-3922 BB. Made in Japan (unlike Shimanos), high quality, almost suspiciously cheap, good looking, and comes in many widths. I've got it on several bikes; I used to buy Phils for my fanciest bikes, but I like this one better at 1/5 the cost!

There are more and more top grade parts coming out of Taiwan and Japan
for a LOT cheaper than the American components that do not appear to
me to be any better. While Campy and Chris King headsets are so
expensive an FSA is 1/3rd the price. And Origin8 1/5th.

Now without direct experience with the lower price parts I shouldn't talk them up but the price difference is so dramatic that they are certainly worth a try.

I've dwelt with the Chinese for forty years or more (I even married
one :-) and they are very pragmatic people. They will make and sell
you just exactly what you ask for. You want quality we got quality.
You want cheap, we got that too.

On Fri, 07 Apr 2017 20:14:12 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/7/2017 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 08:04:59 -0700 (PDT), Robert Liebermann
wrote:

I recommend the Tange LN-3922 BB. Made in Japan (unlike Shimanos),
high quality, almost suspiciously cheap, good looking, and comes in many
widths. I've got it on several bikes; I used to buy Phils for my fanciest
bikes, but I like this one better at 1/5 the cost!

:-) Are you sure about the made in Japan thing? I find the following
addresses for Tange Seiki :-)

TANGE SEIKI CO., LTD
1-26, Kurumano-cho Nishi, Sakai-ku
Sakai, Osaka, Japan 590-0940
TEL:+81-72-224-9990
FAX:+81-72-224-9991

TANGE SEIKI TAICHUNG CO.,LTD.
NO.18, Gongyegu 10th Rd., Xitun Dist., Taichung City
40755, Taiwan (R.O.C.)
TEL:+886-4-2358-0100
FAX:+886-4-2358-0669

TANGE SEIKI SHENZHEN CO.,LTD.
No. 141, Yin Tai Rd., Daiang St, Baoan Dist., Shenzhen,
Guangdong, China
TEL:+86-755-27742140
FAX:+86-755-27708372

It's not Tange's only product.

Blue box BB with natural aluminum cups & white box with
steel cups are both marked 'Made in Japan' as are the
Tange-IRD units. (I assume o.e.m. versions would be made
closer to actual bicycle factories.)


My guess is that with any quality manufacturer the quality will be the
same regardless of where it is manufactured.

Caterpillar, for example, started making D-6 tractors and 12' graders
in Indonesia some 25 years ago. the quality was exactly the same as
any other Caterpillar tractor no matter where made.

On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 07:38:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/8/2017 2:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 07 Apr 2017 20:14:12 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/7/2017 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 08:04:59 -0700 (PDT), Robert Liebermann
wrote:

I recommend the Tange LN-3922 BB. Made in Japan (unlike Shimanos),
high quality, almost suspiciously cheap, good looking, and comes in many
widths. I've got it on several bikes; I used to buy Phils for my fanciest
bikes, but I like this one better at 1/5 the cost!

:-) Are you sure about the made in Japan thing? I find the following
addresses for Tange Seiki :-)

TANGE SEIKI CO., LTD
1-26, Kurumano-cho Nishi, Sakai-ku
Sakai, Osaka, Japan 590-0940
TEL:+81-72-224-9990
FAX:+81-72-224-9991

TANGE SEIKI TAICHUNG CO.,LTD.
NO.18, Gongyegu 10th Rd., Xitun Dist., Taichung City
40755, Taiwan (R.O.C.)
TEL:+886-4-2358-0100
FAX:+886-4-2358-0669

TANGE SEIKI SHENZHEN CO.,LTD.
No. 141, Yin Tai Rd., Daiang St, Baoan Dist., Shenzhen,
Guangdong, China
TEL:+86-755-27742140
FAX:+86-755-27708372

It's not Tange's only product.

Blue box BB with natural aluminum cups & white box with
steel cups are both marked 'Made in Japan' as are the
Tange-IRD units. (I assume o.e.m. versions would be made
closer to actual bicycle factories.)

The Tange family seems to have a lot of branches, of which Seiki is
nly one. I believe that Tange bicycle frame tubes are/were rather an
up-market product.

The corporate addresses I posted show a common corporate practice for
Japanese firms. First get started in the home land, then when salaries
and other costs of business rise move to Taiwan and then to more
countries with lower costs of doing business. Shimano, for example,
has plants in Singapore, Malaysia and at least two sites in main land
China.

Minimum salary in Japan is in the US$7.40/hour range and in China it
is approximately US$13.00/day.
--
Cheers,

John B.


Sorry that's not right.
Tange is not an unusual Japanese name. Tange Seiki is
unrelated to Tange Inc. They're both in the Kansai (Osaka)
area but the similarity ends there.

From what I read in their corporate histories that all started in
1920, or thereabout, when "Yasujiro Tange founded a company that would
become one the most iconic in bicycle industry". Whether they are
closely associated today I have no idea but they all seemed to have
began with Grandfather Tange :-)