Mason Verdict ( a sober review )

On 15/04/17 10:17, Peter Keller wrote:

The car hit the bicyclist on the driver's side.
What was the bicyclist doing so far away from the left side of the road?

I am often in this position when approaching a right turn. Is that wrong?

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:27:46 +0100, colwyn wrote:

http://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/duncan.../mason-verdict

She didn't see him because car's lights are WAY too bright nowadays. You don't have a chance in hell of seeing pedestrians and cyclists. Remember when there was the 55W limit on headlights? Remember when the MOT stopped them from aiming too high? Nowadays you can have as much light as you want, aimed straight into the face of the oncoming driver, and nobody cares.

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On 18/04/17 00:15, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:27:46 +0100, colwyn
wrote:

http://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/duncan.../mason-verdict

She didn't see him because car's lights are WAY too bright nowadays.
You don't have a chance in hell of seeing pedestrians and cyclists.
Remember when there was the 55W limit on headlights? Remember when the
MOT stopped them from aiming too high? Nowadays you can have as much
light as you want, aimed straight into the face of the oncoming driver,
and nobody cares.

Agree. Streetlights make it unnecessary for vehicles to emit lots of
light - or any light even. Things are more recognisable when seen in
outline.

On 18/04/2017 00:08, TMS320 wrote:

On 15/04/17 10:17, Peter Keller wrote:

The car hit the bicyclist on the driver's side.
What was the bicyclist doing so far away from the left side of the road?

I am often in this position when approaching a right turn. Is that wrong?

It depends on how quickly you get there from wherever you are
beforehand, and whether or not you accord priority to other vehicles
appropriately and in compliance with the rules. The basic rule is that
one should not cause one's vehicle to move into the path of another
vehicle if doing so will necessitate a change of speed or direction for
that other vehicle.

So you will be able to see that the answer to your question is "maybe".

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On 18/04/17 03:26, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2017 00:08, TMS320 wrote:
On 15/04/17 10:17, Peter Keller wrote:

The car hit the bicyclist on the driver's side. What was the
bicyclist doing so far away from the left side of the road?

I am often in this position when approaching a right turn. Is that
wrong?

It depends on how quickly you get there from wherever you are
beforehand, and whether or not you accord priority to other vehicles
appropriately and in compliance with the rules. The basic rule is
that one should not cause one's vehicle to move into the path of
another vehicle if doing so will necessitate a change of speed or
direction for that other vehicle.

So you will be able to see that the answer to your question is
"maybe".

Since I was asking in response to Peter's post I hoped he would give his
view without you butting in.

On 18.04.2017 11:08, TMS320 wrote:
On 15/04/17 10:17, Peter Keller wrote:

The car hit the bicyclist on the driver's side.
What was the bicyclist doing so far away from the left side of the road?

I am often in this position when approaching a right turn. Is that wrong?

Legally, no.
However in times of reduced visibility it may be unwise. I have an
aversion to explaining that I am in the right from bed 13 of the
Intensive Care Unit.
I quite often use a "hook turn" if i need to turn right in heavy
traffic. Cross the intersection on green on the left, then stop in front
of the cars on the left of the cross road (they will have red), then
when the lights turn green go straight ahead.
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On 18.04.2017 19:20, TMS320 wrote:
On 18/04/17 03:26, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2017 00:08, TMS320 wrote:
On 15/04/17 10:17, Peter Keller wrote:

The car hit the bicyclist on the driver's side. What was the
bicyclist doing so far away from the left side of the road?

I am often in this position when approaching a right turn. Is that
wrong?

It depends on how quickly you get there from wherever you are
beforehand, and whether or not you accord priority to other vehicles
appropriately and in compliance with the rules. The basic rule is
that one should not cause one's vehicle to move into the path of
another vehicle if doing so will necessitate a change of speed or
direction for that other vehicle.

So you will be able to see that the answer to your question is
"maybe".

Since I was asking in response to Peter's post I hoped he would give his
view without you butting in.

I have above.
Sorry I can't be here 24/7

On 18/04/2017 08:20, TMS320 wrote:
On 18/04/17 03:26, JNugent wrote:
On 18/04/2017 00:08, TMS320 wrote:
On 15/04/17 10:17, Peter Keller wrote:

The car hit the bicyclist on the driver's side. What was the
bicyclist doing so far away from the left side of the road?

I am often in this position when approaching a right turn. Is that
wrong?

It depends on how quickly you get there from wherever you are
beforehand, and whether or not you accord priority to other vehicles
appropriately and in compliance with the rules. The basic rule is
that one should not cause one's vehicle to move into the path of
another vehicle if doing so will necessitate a change of speed or
direction for that other vehicle.

So you will be able to see that the answer to your question is
"maybe".

Since I was asking in response to Peter's post I hoped he would give his
view without you butting in.

This is a newsgroup.

If you prefer, you may communicate with Peter by email.

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On 18/04/2017 11:03, Peter Keller wrote:

On 18.04.2017 11:08, TMS320 wrote:
On 15/04/17 10:17, Peter Keller wrote:

The car hit the bicyclist on the driver's side.
What was the bicyclist doing so far away from the left side of the road?

I am often in this position when approaching a right turn. Is that wrong?

Legally, no.
However in times of reduced visibility it may be unwise. I have an
aversion to explaining that I am in the right from bed 13 of the
Intensive Care Unit.
I quite often use a "hook turn" if i need to turn right in heavy
traffic. Cross the intersection on green on the left, then stop in front
of the cars on the left of the cross road (they will have red), then
when the lights turn green go straight ahead.

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| |
____________________o| |________________
--------------------!
|
^
|
^---
_____________________ | ________________
o| | |
| ^ |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| ^ |
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Peter, that would not be aggressive enough for many UK cyclists; it
would neither inconvenience nor threaten enough (other) road users to be
acceptable for them.

I think it's fair, though, to reflect on the fact that the Mason
accident didn't occur at a light-controlled crossroads. It happened in
(the upper part of) Regent Street, London W1, between Oxford Circus
(which was behind those involved) and the BBC building and All Souls
Church at Langham Place further north. [see map URL below]

It is said that the cyclist moved from the (non-existent) inside lane to
the offside between the bus-stop seen at this URL and the site of the
colleion some yards further on.

The quote is: "What we do know is that Mick moved across to the outside
lane".

There is, of course, *no* inside lane and *no* "outside lane". There is
only one lane on each side of the centre line.

Cycling UK, confused, much? That's probably the charitable way to put it.

/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYu03LDPsc-D6tUsczoABrQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en



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On 18/04/17 11:03, Peter Keller wrote:
On 18.04.2017 11:08, TMS320 wrote:
On 15/04/17 10:17, Peter Keller wrote:

The car hit the bicyclist on the driver's side. What was the
bicyclist doing so far away from the left side of the road?

I am often in this position when approaching a right turn. Is that
wrong?

Legally, no. However in times of reduced visibility it may be unwise.
I have an aversion to explaining that I am in the right from bed 13
of the Intensive Care Unit.

I will never suggest that blind faith is a substitute for judgement.

I quite often use a "hook turn" if i need
to turn right in heavy traffic. Cross the intersection on green on
the left, then stop in front of the cars on the left of the cross
road (they will have red), then when the lights turn green go
straight ahead.
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
____________________o| |________________
--------------------!
|
^
|
^---
_____________________ | ________________
o| | |
| ^ |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| ^ |
| | |


That is certainly a possible bail out. There are other permutations,
depending on junction layout. But to understand why he was in the
position he was is not a difficult question.