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Cheerfully wrong



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 18th 10, 09:31 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Tony Raven[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,347
Default Cheerfully wrong

In the threads about a cyclist killed by a drunk truck driver Mr
Cheerful said the following:

don't get on the inside of lorries, particularly at junctions, she paid the
ultimate price for her actions.


when did you last see a cyclist stop at a set of traffic lights? Pound to a
penny she rode up the inside.


And yes, I do think she rode up the inside, and by so doing she put herself
into mortal danger, perhaps if she had been trained in road use then this
tragedy need not have occurred.


of course, if she had not been there, she would probably still be alive


I cannot see the point of her exercising a right which got her killed. The
drink overlimit was trivial and probably had no actual effect on the driver.


it is only a few years since that reading would have been legal. A regular
drinker will not show any effects from such a small amount 'over the limit'


And as Mr Pounder said:

"The trial continues"

Mr Pounder


Well now the trial has finished and we can see just how wrong Mr
Cheerless was:

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/n..._phone_jailed/

Drunk lorry driver who ran over cyclist while talking on mobile phone jailed

5:50pm Thursday 18th November 2010

A lorry driver who was over the drink drive limit and on a mobile when
he crushed a Clapham cyclist has been jailed for seven years.

Dennis Putz, 51, from North London killed 39-year-old Catriona Patel, of
Common Mile Close, Clapham, after he drove his lorry over her, just
outside the Tube station on June 29, 2009.

Mrs Patel, a regular cyclist wearing a hi-visibility jacket and a
helmet, was cycling her normal route to work on that Monday morning.

She stopped at a red light, in the cycle reservoir in front of a large
green tipper lorry at 8.23am, at the junction of Kennington Park Road
and Harleyford Street.

As the lights turned green, Mrs Patel pulled off, intending to go
straight across the junction.

Putz, who was over the drink drive limit and was driving with one hand
on the wheel while talking on his mobile phone, turned left.

The truck caught the rear wheel of Mrs Patel's bike, dragging her
underneath the vehicle.

Witnesses watched in horror, as Putz failed to notice the cyclist caught
underneath his lorry. Only when passers by began banging on the side of
his vehicle did Putz finally stop.

She was given first aid at the scene by passers-by and taken by air
ambulance to the Royal London Hospital, with multiple rib fractures and
internal bleeding. She was taken straight into surgery but went into
cardiac arrest. She was pronounced dead at 11:30am that morning.

The post mortem examination found she died from a ruptured spleen,
fractured ribs, lung laceration and pelvic fractures.

Mrs Patel, who had been married for seven years, left behind her husband
Anish.

Putz stated that the cyclist must have been in his blind spot, but the
court heard that she had been in his view for at least 29 seconds before
he moved off and began to turn left. She also remained in view
throughout the turn until he was stopped by members of the public.

Putz, who was drink driving and on the phone was found guilty of death
by dangerous driving, has now received a life time driving ban.

It was revealed during the trial that he had 20 previous
disqualifications, three drink drive convictions and three previous
convictions for reckless driving.

Detective Constable Tony Tobin, the senior investigating officer, said:
"Our thoughts are with Catriona's husband and the rest of her family as
they have to deal with her loss every day.

"Dennis Putz started driving a large tipper truck that day still 1.5
times the legal drink drive limit. He was also using a mobile telephone
as he hit Catriona.

"The combination of the size of vehicle, drink and phone came together
to produce such tragic consequences."

Detective Chief Inspector Nick Chalmers from the Road Death
Investigation Unit, said: "Dennis Putz ignored the duty of care he had
to other road users, which resulted in the tragic death of this young woman.

"The Met takes this sort of crime seriously and the Traffic department
now has some of London's most experienced detectives investigating fatal
road collisions.

"If someone dies on one of the capital's roads as a result of dangerous
driving the investigation will be thorough, professional and relentless."


I won't hold my breath waiting for Mr Cheerless to say he was wrong.


Tony


Ads
  #2  
Old November 18th 10, 10:05 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
chris French
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 308
Default Cheerfully wrong

In message , Tony Raven
writes
In the threads about a cyclist killed by a drunk truck driver Mr
Cheerful said the following:

don't get on the inside of lorries, particularly at junctions, she paid the
ultimate price for her actions.

snip


Well now the trial has finished and we can see just how wrong Mr
Cheerless was:

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/n...s/8675868.Drun
k_lorry_driver_who_ran_over_cyclist_while_talking _on_mobile_phone_jailed/

Drunk lorry driver who ran over cyclist while talking on mobile phone jailed

5:50pm Thursday 18th November 2010

A lorry driver who was over the drink drive limit and on a mobile when
he crushed a Clapham cyclist has been jailed for seven years.

At least there was a reasonable sentence.

It was revealed during the trial that he had 20 previous
disqualifications, three drink drive convictions and three previous
convictions for reckless driving.


20? that must be going some in at most 34 years of driving, rather un
believable, . It sounds like a bit of mistake in the reporting, unless
he was doing something odd like getting disqualified again whilst still
on a disqualification.. I do think that a second disqualification
should mean a permanent ban (or at least very long)
--
Chris French

  #3  
Old November 18th 10, 10:06 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mr Pounder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,547
Default Cheerfully wrong


"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...
In the threads about a cyclist killed by a drunk truck driver Mr Cheerful
said the following:

don't get on the inside of lorries, particularly at junctions, she paid
the
ultimate price for her actions.


when did you last see a cyclist stop at a set of traffic lights? Pound
to a
penny she rode up the inside.


And yes, I do think she rode up the inside, and by so doing she put
herself
into mortal danger, perhaps if she had been trained in road use then this
tragedy need not have occurred.


of course, if she had not been there, she would probably still be alive


I cannot see the point of her exercising a right which got her killed.
The drink overlimit was trivial and probably had no actual effect on the
driver.


it is only a few years since that reading would have been legal. A
regular drinker will not show any effects from such a small amount 'over
the limit'


And as Mr Pounder said:

"The trial continues"

Mr Pounder


Well now the trial has finished and we can see just how wrong Mr Cheerless
was:


Do you have a special little folder in your Amstrad 1640 dedicated to me?

Mr Pounder

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/n..._phone_jailed/

Drunk lorry driver who ran over cyclist while talking on mobile phone
jailed

5:50pm Thursday 18th November 2010

A lorry driver who was over the drink drive limit and on a mobile when he
crushed a Clapham cyclist has been jailed for seven years.

Dennis Putz, 51, from North London killed 39-year-old Catriona Patel, of
Common Mile Close, Clapham, after he drove his lorry over her, just
outside the Tube station on June 29, 2009.

Mrs Patel, a regular cyclist wearing a hi-visibility jacket and a helmet,
was cycling her normal route to work on that Monday morning.

She stopped at a red light, in the cycle reservoir in front of a large
green tipper lorry at 8.23am, at the junction of Kennington Park Road and
Harleyford Street.

As the lights turned green, Mrs Patel pulled off, intending to go straight
across the junction.

Putz, who was over the drink drive limit and was driving with one hand on
the wheel while talking on his mobile phone, turned left.

The truck caught the rear wheel of Mrs Patel's bike, dragging her
underneath the vehicle.

Witnesses watched in horror, as Putz failed to notice the cyclist caught
underneath his lorry. Only when passers by began banging on the side of
his vehicle did Putz finally stop.

She was given first aid at the scene by passers-by and taken by air
ambulance to the Royal London Hospital, with multiple rib fractures and
internal bleeding. She was taken straight into surgery but went into
cardiac arrest. She was pronounced dead at 11:30am that morning.

The post mortem examination found she died from a ruptured spleen,
fractured ribs, lung laceration and pelvic fractures.

Mrs Patel, who had been married for seven years, left behind her husband
Anish.

Putz stated that the cyclist must have been in his blind spot, but the
court heard that she had been in his view for at least 29 seconds before
he moved off and began to turn left. She also remained in view throughout
the turn until he was stopped by members of the public.

Putz, who was drink driving and on the phone was found guilty of death by
dangerous driving, has now received a life time driving ban.

It was revealed during the trial that he had 20 previous
disqualifications, three drink drive convictions and three previous
convictions for reckless driving.

Detective Constable Tony Tobin, the senior investigating officer, said:
"Our thoughts are with Catriona's husband and the rest of her family as
they have to deal with her loss every day.

"Dennis Putz started driving a large tipper truck that day still 1.5 times
the legal drink drive limit. He was also using a mobile telephone as he
hit Catriona.

"The combination of the size of vehicle, drink and phone came together to
produce such tragic consequences."

Detective Chief Inspector Nick Chalmers from the Road Death Investigation
Unit, said: "Dennis Putz ignored the duty of care he had to other road
users, which resulted in the tragic death of this young woman.

"The Met takes this sort of crime seriously and the Traffic department now
has some of London's most experienced detectives investigating fatal road
collisions.

"If someone dies on one of the capital's roads as a result of dangerous
driving the investigation will be thorough, professional and relentless."


I won't hold my breath waiting for Mr Cheerless to say he was wrong.


Tony






  #4  
Old November 19th 10, 02:33 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mrcheerful[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,275
Default Cheerfully wrong

Tony Raven wrote:
In the threads about a cyclist killed by a drunk truck driver Mr
Cheerful said the following:

don't get on the inside of lorries, particularly at junctions, she
paid the ultimate price for her actions.


when did you last see a cyclist stop at a set of traffic lights? Pound to
a penny she rode up the inside.


And yes, I do think she rode up the inside, and by so doing she put
herself into mortal danger, perhaps if she had been trained in road
use then this tragedy need not have occurred.



I won't hold my breath waiting for Mr Cheerless to say he was wrong.


Tony


What is a cycle reservoir?
If it means that the cyclist had stopped , before the arrival of the tipper
in an advanced cycle stop area at the lights and the lorry rammed her after
the lights changed, then that is very different to the way the original
reports read. It is also at odds with the pictures, which showed her debris
on the left of the lorry, if he had turned left striking her back wheel with
the bumper of the lorry then the debris would end up on the right of the
lorry, not the left, particularly since it is said he went some way before
realising.

The whole thing just shows how unsuitable cycles are for use in heavy
traffic, ban them and solve the problem.


  #5  
Old November 19th 10, 06:43 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Tony Raven[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,347
Default Cheerfully wrong

Mrcheerful wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:
In the threads about a cyclist killed by a drunk truck driver Mr
Cheerful said the following:

don't get on the inside of lorries, particularly at junctions, she
paid the ultimate price for her actions.
when did you last see a cyclist stop at a set of traffic lights? Pound to
a penny she rode up the inside.
And yes, I do think she rode up the inside, and by so doing she put
herself into mortal danger, perhaps if she had been trained in road
use then this tragedy need not have occurred.


I won't hold my breath waiting for Mr Cheerless to say he was wrong.


Tony


What is a cycle reservoir?


An ASL

If it means that the cyclist had stopped , before the arrival of the tipper
in an advanced cycle stop area at the lights and the lorry rammed her after
the lights changed, then that is very different to the way the original
reports read.


No, it was very different from the way you interpreted the original
reports in an attempt to blame a cyclist for the actions of a drunk
driver on the phone. Here's the original report for you to check:
http://tinyurl.com/3xo8vsn

It is also at odds with the pictures, which showed her debris
on the left of the lorry, if he had turned left striking her back wheel with
the bumper of the lorry then the debris would end up on the right of the
lorry, not the left, particularly since it is said he went some way before
realising.


Not if she was in front of the lorry on the passenger side of the cab.


The whole thing just shows how unsuitable cycles are for use in heavy
traffic, ban them and solve the problem.


Typical. The driver was drunk and on the phone, had 20 previous
disqualifications, three drink drive convictions and three previous
convictions for reckless driving and yet you still want to blame the
victim not the driver.

Tony
  #6  
Old November 19th 10, 08:44 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mrcheerful[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,275
Default Cheerfully wrong

Tony Raven wrote:
Mrcheerful wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:
In the threads about a cyclist killed by a drunk truck driver Mr
Cheerful said the following:

don't get on the inside of lorries, particularly at junctions, you
still want to blame the

victim not the driver.

Tony


The fact is that there are thousands of truly awful drivers out there, I see
them, you see them, everyone has horror stories of close encounters. But,
cyclists choose to ignore that and try to travel unprotected amongst them.
Rather like the swimmers that go for a dip in shark infested water, when one
gets killed they get all uppitty and say: 'do something about the sharks'

Why not just stay clear of them?


  #7  
Old November 19th 10, 08:57 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Tony Raven[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,347
Default Cheerfully wrong

Mrcheerful wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:
Mrcheerful wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:
In the threads about a cyclist killed by a drunk truck driver Mr
Cheerful said the following:

don't get on the inside of lorries, particularly at junctions, you
still want to blame the

victim not the driver.

Tony


The fact is that there are thousands of truly awful drivers out there, I see
them, you see them, everyone has horror stories of close encounters. But,
cyclists choose to ignore that and try to travel unprotected amongst them.
Rather like the swimmers that go for a dip in shark infested water, when one
gets killed they get all uppitty and say: 'do something about the sharks'

Why not just stay clear of them?



Why not extend your philosophy to other crimes as well rather than
dealing with the source of the problem. It could save a fortune on
policing costs. We don't need police, just stay clear of criminals.
Drivers could drive as drunk and distracted as they want and its
everyone else's responsibility to stay clear of them. Sorted. You
should write to the Daily Mail about it.

Tony
  #8  
Old November 19th 10, 09:00 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mrcheerful[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,275
Default Cheerfully wrong

Tony Raven wrote:
Mrcheerful wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:
Mrcheerful wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:
In the threads about a cyclist killed by a drunk truck driver Mr
Cheerful said the following:

don't get on the inside of lorries, particularly at junctions,
you still want to blame the
victim not the driver.

Tony


The fact is that there are thousands of truly awful drivers out
there, I see them, you see them, everyone has horror stories of
close encounters. But, cyclists choose to ignore that and try to
travel unprotected amongst them. Rather like the swimmers that go
for a dip in shark infested water, when one gets killed they get all
uppitty and say: 'do something about the sharks' Why not just stay clear
of them?



Why not extend your philosophy to other crimes as well rather than
dealing with the source of the problem. It could save a fortune on
policing costs. We don't need police, just stay clear of criminals.
Drivers could drive as drunk and distracted as they want and its
everyone else's responsibility to stay clear of them. Sorted. You
should write to the Daily Mail about it.

Tony


if someone knowingly travels to a really bad place and gets killed, then
yes, it is a crime, but why on earth did they go there?


  #9  
Old November 19th 10, 12:28 PM
mischastar mischastar is offline
Member
 
First recorded activity by CycleBanter: Feb 2010
Posts: 59
Default

What a horrible way to die...drunk drivers are the scum of the earth and should be punished a lot more severely than they are.
  #10  
Old November 19th 10, 08:25 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Squashme
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,146
Default Cheerfully wrong

On Nov 19, 9:00*am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:
Mrcheerful wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:
Mrcheerful wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:
In the threads about a cyclist killed by a drunk truck driver Mr
Cheerful said the following:


don't get on the inside of lorries, particularly at junctions,
you still want to blame the
victim not the driver.


Tony


The fact is that there are thousands of truly awful drivers out
there, I see them, you see them, everyone has horror stories of
close encounters. *But, cyclists choose to ignore that and try to
travel unprotected amongst them. Rather like the swimmers that go
for a dip in shark infested water, when one gets killed they get all
uppitty and say: 'do something about the sharks' Why not just stay clear
of them?


Why not extend your philosophy to other crimes as well rather than
dealing with the source of the problem. *It could save a fortune on
policing costs. *We don't need police, just stay clear of criminals.
Drivers could drive as drunk and distracted as they want and its
everyone else's responsibility to stay clear of them. *Sorted. *You
should write to the Daily Mail about it.


Tony


if someone knowingly travels to a really bad place and gets *killed, then
yes, it is a crime, but why on earth did they go there?


Don't cross the road.
 




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