Bicycles at Costco (*** seeking advice ***)

snorkeler wrote:

I'm considering buying a mountain bike at Costco Kailua Kona. Hardly
anyone here knowledgeably addresses the cost/benefits. Mostly rants
about 'cheap Chinese stuff' and support your LBS.

I think you're missing the point. If Costco were selling a "no frills"
bike at a low price, it might make sense for a casual newbie rider take
a look. But the idea of a full suspension MTB for $199 virtually
guarantees that it's junk. It would be like selling a three-piece suit
for $20.

Art Harris

Neil Brooks wrote:
"Claire Petersky" wrote:


"Fritz M" wrote in message
groups.com...


(how would a Nihonjin say "Troll"? "too row roo"?)

Tororu, yes, would be the transliteration.

The verb translated, I believe, is the onomonopedaic "bura-bura", which
means to troll or to dangle. "Troll" as a noun I am less sure of. The best
my English-Japanese dictionary is giving me is "itazurazuki no kobito",
which means "mischievious dwarf", I think.


When I look up "itazurazuki no kobito" in *my* English-Japanese
dictionary, it just gives a picture of Bill Baka ;-)

I am 0.00000% Japanese so that holds 0.000000% meaning to me. The JAPs
in WWII would have thought it strange that a 'Baka', my dad, was firing
the 150mm howitzers that were blowing the crap out of them. He never
rode but made 83, soo....
Bill Baka

I'll just wait for someone with some actual experience with such a
Costco bike to post. I'm not interesting in theoreticals or Costco
bashing. Sorry I can't just rationalize buying a $3K bike, which would
obviously be better.

The problem with Art's argument is that it is POSSIBLE for a good mfg
in China to make a good quality component that costs less than one made
in Japan of similar quality, due to radically lower labor costs, and
possibly efficiency advantages. If a mfg. there put together a bike
with good quality but lower price point components, it could still sell
for less, but be a decent bike. Perhaps this is impossible at $199.
Perhaps most of Specialized's low end bikes are made in China anyway.

I'm not anti-LBS, but just in favor of folks being able to buy without
quite so much markup in the middle, take their own risks, and do their
own maintenance if they want to. That's worked out well for me over the
years. I am also in the right circumstances willing to pay more for
better components, and would like it better if Costco had some higher
end bikes, too. Sometimes they do. I may have to wind up buying a
clearance or used bike in order to get the gears I want for hill
climbing anyway.

"snorkeler" wrote:

I'll just wait for someone with some actual experience with such a
Costco bike to post. I'm not interesting in theoreticals or Costco
bashing. Sorry I can't just rationalize buying a $3K bike, which would
obviously be better.

The problem with Art's argument is that it is POSSIBLE for a good mfg
in China to make a good quality component that costs less than one made
in Japan of similar quality, due to radically lower labor costs, and
possibly efficiency advantages. If a mfg. there put together a bike
with good quality but lower price point components, it could still sell
for less, but be a decent bike. Perhaps this is impossible at $199.
Perhaps most of Specialized's low end bikes are made in China anyway.

I'm not anti-LBS, but just in favor of folks being able to buy without
quite so much markup in the middle, take their own risks, and do their
own maintenance if they want to. That's worked out well for me over the
years. I am also in the right circumstances willing to pay more for
better components, and would like it better if Costco had some higher
end bikes, too. Sometimes they do. I may have to wind up buying a
clearance or used bike in order to get the gears I want for hill
climbing anyway.

Though you seem pretty resolute in your position, may I at least tempt
you to look at a couple of other things??

Road bikes: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=69273
Mtb: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=56148

I think what you've presented above is very much like what they call
the "black/white" fallacy. You've sort of ignored a vast amount of
cycling real estate that lives *between* the $199 Costco special and
the $6,000 Moots that I (used to) ride.

The question is one of cost/benefit, right? I think you'd find a
pretty steep bell curve for bikes. IOW: the incremental benefit in
customer satisfaction, durability, and performance of a $500 bike is
dramatic relative to a $200 bike, but the incremental benefit of, say,
my obscenely expensive bike relative to a few score $3,000 bikes is
nowhere near as dramatic.

I think you would do yourself a disservice if you didn't at least
explore a few of these other options, *if only* so that you understand
well what compromises, if any, you'd be making in giving Costco your
money.

Best of luck!

Thanks to Neil Brooks for the cogent reply and links.

I'm not at all wedded to Costco. I just want to find how just what the
costs/benefits are, and it's hard to find. My wife is not sympathetic
to always buying fancy gear. I lean towards durability. She argues that
it just may be possible that in a high corrosion environment like HI,
buying two Costco bikes over a 10 year period might work out better
than a bike three times the price plus its maintenance. Of course,
you'd enjoy a somewhat better bike during the time.

I will study the info on the links. I personally am partial to
ultra-heavy duty, last several generations power tools like Milwaukee
makes (or used to). My bike use is lighter duty, and I have long felt
that we yuppies should exercise some self-discipline and not run out
and buy top end gear until our experience and use truly justify it. So
I tend to underbuy at first till I prove the activity will last, and I
know enough to know what I really want and need. Only then do I deserve
better (not just because I have excess cash).

BTW--I currently ride a Nishiki fully unsuspended mountain bike I
bought 12 years ago on sale at my LBS for all of $200. It has not seen
the inside of a LBS since then, but with good care and lubrication is
working just great (other than a little rust on the steel handlebar
post). Maybe I'm reaping the benefits of buying a (somewhat) better
quality bike!

I recently sprung for Sidi shoes, as I have superwide feet, and
converted to cleats. Great! I pedal this simple bike up Page Mill Road
to skyline, wishing it was geared down a little more, but it does the
job. As with my wife, I have no intention of forsaking it for a trophy
bike now that I can afford better, until there is a damn good reason.
But I might replace the cassette with an 11/34. The bike I'm shopping
for is for our place in Hawaii.

On 31 Mar 2005 13:59:33 -0800, "snorkeler" wrote:

BTW--I currently ride a Nishiki fully unsuspended mountain bike I
bought 12 years ago on sale at my LBS for all of $200. It has not seen
the inside of a LBS since then, but with good care and lubrication is
working just great (other than a little rust on the steel handlebar
post). Maybe I'm reaping the benefits of buying a (somewhat) better
quality bike!

See, that's the kind of deal I don't think you'll match at the big box.

Tell ya what I think would be a fair test; see what components are on the
prospective costco bike and check if they are legit namebrand standard sort of
pieces or weird proprietary things.

Even if it's got low end Sram or Shimano Altus or the like, I'd feel better than
if it were built up with mystery parts of strange trade names.

I recently sprung for Sidi shoes, as I have superwide feet, and
converted to cleats. Great! I pedal this simple bike up Page Mill Road
to skyline, wishing it was geared down a little more, but it does the
job. As with my wife, I have no intention of forsaking it for a trophy
bike now that I can afford better, until there is a damn good reason.
But I might replace the cassette with an 11/34. The bike I'm shopping
for is for our place in Hawaii.

Good luck.

Ron

Per Neil's advice, I looked a little higher.

bikeforums.com has a nice thread on mountain bikes around $500.

It looks like one decent semisweet spot is a hardtail, on sale or used,
in that price zone. I just have to get my $$ target adjusted to the
21st century, and not be so cheap. I do buy the point Costco
durability issues. Costco Kona just carries Dynacraft-made mtn bikes,
and they do seem to have durability issues. They say they hire pro's to
assemble them, though.

Thanks, Neil.

snorkeler wrote:
Per Neil's advice, I looked a little higher.

bikeforums.com has a nice thread on mountain bikes around $500.

It looks like one decent semisweet spot is a hardtail, on sale or
used,
in that price zone. I just have to get my $$ target adjusted to the
21st century, and not be so cheap. I do buy the point Costco
durability issues. Costco Kona just carries Dynacraft-made mtn bikes,
and they do seem to have durability issues. They say they hire pro's
to
assemble them, though.

I saw the Cephas (the Costco bicycle that the original poster wrote
about). Certainly it's a notch above the typical Wal-Mart or Target
bicycle, but g-d is it heavy. The assembly on these was abysmal. Maybe
Costco Kona hires more experienced assemblers than Costco Sunnyvale.

You can find a decent hard tail on sale for around $400. For example,
REI is closing out the 2004 Marin Bear Valley, an excellent hardtail
with a chromoloy steel frame (not junky aluminum), for $390. They only
have 17" left. See:
"http://www.rei.com/outlet/product/47943588.htm?vcat=OUTLET_SSHP_CYCLING_SA"

The 2005 model of this bicycle has an MSRP of $650, and a street price
of about $560. This is but one example of deals to be found. There is
no shortage of bicycles these days, but you have to find a good
retailer who clears out old stock with good sales.

snorkeler wrote:

I personally am partial to
ultra-heavy duty, last several generations power tools like Milwaukee

makes (or used to).

With bikes, "heavy" doesn't always mean heavy duty. Yes, the shocks on
a cheap MTB will be heavy, but not necessarily durable.

My bike use is lighter duty, and I have long felt
that we yuppies should exercise some self-discipline and not run out
and buy top end gear until our experience and use truly justify it.

No one is suggesting you buy "top end gear." There's a large middle
ground that makes sense for most people. You expressed interest in mid
priced hardtails in another post. I agree that's probably what you
should be looking for.

Art Harris