All you apologists can shut up now.

Herrera won the Vuelta in 1987. I think he's safe.

Heras on the other hand ...


"paolo" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
| On May 7, 8:06 am, "
| wrote:
| Eventually someone was going to cave under the weight of the evidence.
|
| I can't wait for all the jock sniffers to come out saying how "brave"
| he is.
|
| This was all somewhat predictable in light of his recent departure
| from Discovery and the pending hearing with the italian olympic review
| group. Either he did the right thing and saved Discovery some
| embarrasment, or Discovery got some smarts and wrote something into
| his contract linking his salary to the outcome of any futrue OP
| results ...i.e. where he couldn't afford to get caught in a lie, and
| stepped up and admitted his involvement (unlikely).
|
| Mostlikely scenario is the authorities told his lawyer that he had a
| better chance at a 1 year suspension if he "cooperated". Combined
| with saving Discovery some angst, the least painful (and costly)
| option was cooperate. 2007 is over for Basso....probably 2008.
|
| My question now is, can he be stripped of any titles he picked-up last
| year, i.e. the 2006 Giro! Or is this all just "implication" stuff and
| we're now moving into 12 months of legal maneuvering. Speaking of
| which, all these OP riders are probably watching how much Landis is
| having to fork over to prove his case, and they're caving and asking
| for leniency (1 vs 2 year suspensions).
|
| It's all rather disheartening. Herera (Vuelta), Landis (TdF) and now
| Basso (Giro). I find it funny that Armstrong blessed both Landis and
| Basso over the last 12 months.
|
|
|

In article om,
"Leo, from Europe" wrote:

On May 7, 7:07 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:

Excuse me? It was McQuaid, a couple days after the TdF, who announced that
the "worst case scenario" was upon us. Well before testing of the B samples.
And in violation of protocol. Hardly an indication of the other side keeping
their mouth shut. Floyd was being tried in the court of public opinion long
before he had a chance to begin to defend himself.

Well, technically it was Floyd and his team.

But I am talking about now-a-days. He and his lawyers are pointing to
all sort of technical mistakes, procedure faults, unreliability of
methods, while his 'opponents' can't reply.

In fairness to Floyd, he is attempting, with whatever motive, to
fundraise for his rather expensive defence.

I have no reason to believe, given what a pro with Floyd's palmares
earns, that he hasn't exhausted much of his personal resources fighting
this.

Given that, when he does his talk-and-beg show, it would be a rather
thin thing if he couldn't say why his cause was just, and demonstrate
some hope that his case will be overturned on the evidence.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

In article
. com,
need more sun wrote:

On May 7, 7:01 pm, Scott wrote:
On May 7, 10:41 am, " wrote:



On May 7, 11:22 am, Scott wrote:

For me, admiration for Basso's confession would only be warranted if
he'd confessed while under no suspicion whatsoever. Then I'd know
that it was his conscience that got to him, not a sense of impending
doom. It's not that hard to confess when you know you're about to be
found guilty, anyway. Criminals do it all the time.

Has anyone confessed while under no suspicion (not counting guys who
had quit, were retired, or were going to retire anyway)?

Justin Spinelli? Don't think he was ever caught with anything as I
recall.

Guys seem to do what they best for their situation. If you're at the
end of your career ... a suspension is the end, so you might as well
deny. Basso could take the suspension and race again. The Landis
thing is puzzling ... why would you blow through so much $ on legal
expenses fighting it ... when even if he wins it's doubtful he would
race again. And even if cleared would he ever make it up?

As much as I despise Pound ... he does have a point in the "deny,
deny, deny" statement.
B.

Floyd, if cleared, will make up lot's of money, if he can show that
there was any sort of deliberate effort to convict him in the absence
of evidence. He'll likely follow with a civil suit against Pound,
WADA, the French lab, etc... for lost wages, earning power, etc...

Plus, if he prevails, his book sales and speaking fees will bring in
mucho deniro.

Without jumping to conclusions,

Nice.

let's look at the other possibility.
If he is guilty, he is a liar who cheated, caused his team to
collapse, has damaged cycling by being the only Tour winner to be
found positive, then has caused further damage to the sport by draging
the anti-doping processes through the mud. As well as having the cheek
to ask fans to pay for his defense.

ASO, WADA, and UCI decided they wanted to find their
own champion guilty. They're idiots. There are better
ways to clean up the sport. Now they are in scrap with
somebody who will take the fight to them. Floyd knows
they can keep him out of cycling, but he will make them hurt.

I stress that I'm not saying he is guilty, (although I certainly
believe he doped in the past), but am laying out the facts as they
stand if he did indeed do it. In which case, I don't know how he
sleeps at night.

Nice.

Only Floyd and a few others know the full truth. But, Floyd, if you
did do it, own the hell up. Because if you are lying, you are helping
to kill the sport you proport to love. Not just once, but many times
over.

If he is innocent, then all the above is irrelevant.

Nice squared.

--
Michael Press

In article .com,
" wrote:

On May 7, 1:01 pm, Scott wrote:

Floyd, if cleared, will make up lot's of money, if he can show that
there was any sort of deliberate effort to convict him in the absence
of evidence. He'll likely follow with a civil suit against Pound,
WADA, the French lab, etc... for lost wages, earning power, etc...

possibly ... seems like quite a gamble though, and any sort of lawsuit
would take years.

Well, if he's properly exonerated, he's at least going to start back on
the path of making a couple million a year. If his new hip works.

Plus, if he prevails, his book sales and speaking fees will bring in
mucho deniro

DeNiro will play him in a movie? :-)

It's the role he was born to play!

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

In article . com,
need more sun wrote:

(snipper)

then has caused further damage to the sport by draging
the anti-doping processes through the mud.

If you've been paying atention, the anti-doping process was already
in the mud. Leaked results, allegedly infallible testing methods,
Pound's pronouncements, etc.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

On May 7, 3:56 pm, "Tom Grosman" wrote:
"paolo" a écrit dans le message de news:
| It's all rather disheartening. Herera (Vuelta), Landis (TdF) and now
| Basso (Giro). I find it funny that Armstrong blessed both Landis and
| Basso over the last 12 months.

Herrera won the Vuelta in 1987. I think he's safe.
Heras on the other hand ...

You never know with the new WADA retroactive testing regimes.
They can review the videotape or even film and tell if a racer
punched the air too aggressively on crossing the finish line.

I think riders who won before the age of still photography can
rest easy, but as Dick Pound says, you can't say you've cleaned
up the sport until you've cleaned up its record books too,

Ben

On May 8, 3:12 am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

In fairness to Floyd, he is attempting, with whatever motive, to
fundraise for his rather expensive defence.

This is why I like him less than others. I wonder if other cyclists
have had so expensive lawyers. And I wonder if other cyclists (apart
Tyler?) have created such a massive media campaign - fully knowing
that the counterpart can't object to their claims to the media.

But then I fully recognize my eurocentric prejudice against some
aspects of US society.

On 7 May 2007 12:54:07 -0700, paolo wrote:


My question now is, can he be stripped of any titles he picked-up last
year, i.e. the 2006 Giro!

According to
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...y07/may08news2
Basso is denying that he doped during last year's Giro. He claims the
blood was being saved for the 2006 Tour.












J. Spaceman

Jason Spaceman wrote:
On 7 May 2007 12:54:07 -0700, paolo wrote:


My question now is, can he be stripped of any titles he picked-up last
year, i.e. the 2006 Giro!

According to
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...y07/may08news2
Basso is denying that he doped during last year's Giro. He claims the
blood was being saved for the 2006 Tour.

The Giro blood was already injected .

Dan

On May 7, 12:41 pm, " wrote:
snipped
Has anyone confessed while under no suspicion (not counting guys who
had quit, were retired, or were going to retire anyway)?

Justin Spinelli? Don't think he was ever caught with anything as I
recall.

snipped
As much as I despise Pound ... he does have a point in the "deny,
deny, deny" statement.
B.

I'm gonna stick up for Justin. Not for the fact that he did dope, but
for the fact that he knew it was a mistake, and despite the evidence
of doping being widespread, he didn't just go with the flow.
He had a conscience, and admitted it, and told his story. He was
treated like **** compared to those who went the "deny, deny, deny"
route, were busted, and treated like nothing ever happened.
People make mistakes. It's how they handle them that's important, and
the way Justin handled his said to me he's a good, solid person. I'd
bet the house that at least some of the people ****ting all over him
publicly, and at races, were, and still are doped to the gills.
He's not a saint, but he sure as hell didn't deserve the **** he
caught either.
Bill C