Afraid of LEFT turns

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:53:01 -0500, 1oki wrote:


"Martian Biker" wrote in message
ups.com...
Yes, there is a turn lane on that busy street, which brings up another
question: if I am able to merge into the turn lane successfully, am I
supposed to occupy the middle of the lane (i.e., with cars behind me) or
just on the narrow white line that separates the turn lane from regular
lanes? The latter seems more satisfying for the driver's point of view
and makes it easier to me to stay right immediately after turning, but
it somewhat contradicts the spirit of behaving as a regular driver.

I take the centre of the lane. I do _not_ want to give an auto-addict
thoughts about turning 'with' me.

Yeah, I had that happen yesterday AND I was taking the lane. A Gray Line
tour bus honked at me and forced me into the should AS I WAS TURNING! What
an ass--what part of you don't pass anybody or anything in an intersection
didn't he understand? Especially with a CDL. When I caught up to the bus
after a few turns, there suddenly were two identical ones, so I didn't
know which number to call in--strategy right out of the Dukes of
Hazzard--wait, there's two General Lee's?! :P

I don't take the center, but slightly right of center, or sometimes
slightly left (pun alert) if I really want to take the lane. Comes from my
motorcycling experience--often the middle of a turn lane or intersection
can have a build-up of automotive drippage which you can slip on. Probably
not an issue in a seldom used turn lane on a high speed road--but an
essential thing to remember in the city.

"Martian Biker" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm thinking of biking to work. The most straightforward route
consists of one left turn on a busy street, on which most cars fly by
at 50+ mph.

I know I'm supposed to use hand signals whenever changing lanes, but I
still have the fear that my signals may not be understood by many
furious drivers in southern California. How would you overcome the
fear? Also, at such high vehicular speed, how far from the
intersection would you starting signaling?

I'm a true novice and would like to listen to your suggestions. Many
thanks!


Here are some good links that discuss road riding safety techniques:

http://bicyclesafe.com/

http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/index.htm

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/traffic/accident.htm

As for your left turn - as you get close to it, you need to look for a gap
in the traffic flow. When a gap develops, signal and sprint for the left
turn lane. It's not always easy, however.

Another alternative is the right turn - u-turn approach. Sometimes that's
safe, and faster, depending on traffic flow.

--
~_-*
....G/ \G
http://www.CycliStats.com
CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:02:23 -0800, Martian Biker wrote:

I'm thinking of biking to work. The most straightforward route
consists of one left turn on a busy street, on which most cars fly by
at 50+ mph.

I know I'm supposed to use hand signals whenever changing lanes, but I
still have the fear that my signals may not be understood by many
furious drivers in southern California. How would you overcome the
fear? Also, at such high vehicular speed, how far from the
intersection would you starting signaling?

Is there a light at that intersection? If so, turn right, turn around,
and cross with the light. If not, maybe there is a protected turn (one
with a light) a bit further down.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
_`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
(_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:28:41 -0500, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:02:23 -0800, Martian Biker wrote:

I'm thinking of biking to work. The most straightforward route
consists of one left turn on a busy street, on which most cars fly by
at 50+ mph.

I know I'm supposed to use hand signals whenever changing lanes, but I
still have the fear that my signals may not be understood by many
furious drivers in southern California. How would you overcome the
fear? Also, at such high vehicular speed, how far from the
intersection would you starting signaling?

Is there a light at that intersection? If so, turn right, turn around,
and cross with the light. If not, maybe there is a protected turn (one
with a light) a bit further down.

I think that's the safer option, turning right, or looking further down for
a protected turn, but forgive if I reiterate, it's always possible to find
safer routes - don't be constrained by a thought that you need to take the
same route as you take when driving.

You might even want to go out on a weekend when the traffic is lighter and
ride the route and look for safer options, or at least practice your left
turning with less pressure.

jj

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:01:22 -0500, jj wrote:

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:28:41 -0500, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:02:23 -0800, Martian Biker wrote:

I'm thinking of biking to work. The most straightforward route
consists of one left turn on a busy street, on which most cars fly by
at 50+ mph.

I know I'm supposed to use hand signals whenever changing lanes, but I
still have the fear that my signals may not be understood by many
furious drivers in southern California. How would you overcome the
fear? Also, at such high vehicular speed, how far from the
intersection would you starting signaling?

Is there a light at that intersection? If so, turn right, turn around,
and cross with the light. If not, maybe there is a protected turn (one
with a light) a bit further down.

I think that's the safer option, turning right, or looking further down
for
a protected turn, but forgive if I reiterate, it's always possible to
find
safer routes - don't be constrained by a thought that you need to take
the
same route as you take when driving.

I do not believe one can always find a better route. On my route, I'd
have to go significantly out of my way to provide a safer left turn. And
even then, I'd be going into a "circle of death" (a circle made to allow
traffic to flow around it and exit at certain spots). This might be worse
than trying a left at a bad intersection.

You might even want to go out on a weekend when the traffic is lighter
and
ride the route and look for safer options, or at least practice your left
turning with less pressure.

jj




--
Bob in CT

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:14:43 -0500, "Bob M"
wrote:

it's always possible to find safer routes - don't be constrained by a
thought that you need to take the same route as you take when driving.

I do not believe one can always find a better route. On my route, I'd
have to go significantly out of my way to provide a safer left turn. And
even then, I'd be going into a "circle of death" (a circle made to allow
traffic to flow around it and exit at certain spots). This might be worse
than trying a left at a bad intersection.

Oh yeah, those are bad. Then it's probably best to turn right, U-turn and
then go straight through. What's the name of the road and location so we
can look it up in mappoint?

jj

The intersection that I'm referring to is Katella and Seal Beach Blvd
in Orange County. Both streets have 3 regular wide lanes and both have
50 mph posted speed limit (so, I'd expect the actual vehicular speed is
in excess of 55 mph). There are lights and dedicated turn lanes on
both streets at the intersection.

I think part of my problem is my inexperience. When vehicles move at
55+ mph, I must look for a pretty long traffic gap in the flow (as
GaryG pointed out) one lane at a time in order to change lanes safely.
However, such long gap also means I have to get visual confirmation
from the drivers at far distance -- something that is still difficult
for me.

I like the idea of turning right followed by a U-turn. I will look up
the area today to see how far I must ride before I could do a U-turn on
Katella.

To me the safest route is the route that has the least number of left
turns. Oh yeah I will ride through a not-so-safe neighborhood but I
think it's OK as long as I keep my tires properly inflated to avoid
having flats over there.

I did try out the route on a weekend. My palms sweated a little bit
afterwards, but it was a great aerobic workout.

On 29 Mar 2005 14:28:54 -0800, "Martian Biker"
wrote:

The intersection that I'm referring to is Katella and Seal Beach Blvd
in Orange County. Both streets have 3 regular wide lanes and both have
50 mph posted speed limit (so, I'd expect the actual vehicular speed is
in excess of 55 mph). There are lights and dedicated turn lanes on
both streets at the intersection.

Yeah I can see where that would be daunting. Seems to me you could turn on
Florista Street and enter Katella via Pine or Reagan when there's a gap in
traffic flow - unless of course it's a divided highway.

I think part of my problem is my inexperience. When vehicles move at
55+ mph, I must look for a pretty long traffic gap in the flow (as
GaryG pointed out) one lane at a time in order to change lanes safely.

Certainly part of it is experience, but I wonder if even experienced riders
don't do a bit of 'hoping and praying' crossing over on fast roads like
that. ;-) Though I don't mind taking a small chance like that once in a
while, this is apparently a route you'll be riding every day commuting.
Pick a solution that's the safest - you don't want a 'small risk' to catch
up to you some day.

However, such long gap also means I have to get visual confirmation
from the drivers at far distance -- something that is still difficult
for me.

Believe me, it's difficult for everyone at that speed! ;-) Beware of such
'visuals' - I've found that some people can look right at you and not see
you on a bike. Daydreaming or whatever.

I like the idea of turning right followed by a U-turn. I will look up
the area today to see how far I must ride before I could do a U-turn on
Katella.

Yeah, I always find it easier to line up at the back of the traffic and
ride straight through. Good luck!

jj

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:22:01 -0500, jj wrote:

On 29 Mar 2005 14:28:54 -0800, "Martian Biker"
wrote:

The intersection that I'm referring to is Katella and Seal Beach Blvd
in Orange County. Both streets have 3 regular wide lanes and both have
50 mph posted speed limit (so, I'd expect the actual vehicular speed is
in excess of 55 mph). There are lights and dedicated turn lanes on
both streets at the intersection.

Yeah I can see where that would be daunting. Seems to me you could turn on
Florista Street and enter Katella via Pine or Reagan when there's a gap in
traffic flow - unless of course it's a divided highway.

Oops, disregard that para. I think I'm reading the map wrong and that would
be another left turn or two. ;-(

jj