When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?

oh golly gee when Prudhomme said Rasmussen was evil.

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:00:40 +0200, Morten Reippuert
wrote:

Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
hours like a steam lokomotive.

Suddenly?

oh yes, tjeck your facts - even Indurain for the first years in his
cariar Indurain did the grupetto, he started going uphill well about
the same time EPO hit european cycling.

Amstrong couldn't climb until the 97 vuelta, even after his weightloss
he was still pretty big compared to true climbers. Of cource durring
the 90'es a lot of the bigger guys suddenly leart how to climb like
rockets.

Hincapee, thats evident.

Ulrich huge compared to the pure climbers.

Vinokrov. Look at the size of his legs, he has the stature of a
sprinter.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) http://blog.reippuert.dk

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
hours like a steam lokomotive.

Ullrich went uphill like the locomotive from the very start. There was
never a transformation - he took 2nd in his first TdF. Dude had
everything but the discipline.

You don't think he was juiced from the beginning? He's climbing
abilties in 96 was a surprise to everyone.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) http://blog.reippuert.dk

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Doug Taylor wrote:

Pantani is ANOTHER example. I still like the circumstantial
correlation: Climber - sucky TT - Blood doping - sudden TT
improvement - grand tour victory.

There was absolutly no reason for bloddoping until 2001 since EPO was
better, safer, cheaper and easier.

Blood doping isn't magic: you need a talented, fit, trained cyclist
to win a tour, dope or no. I'm convinced that Basso needed the
training, the wind tunnel AND the dope to win the Giro.

And, no way Skeletor bests a cyclist like a born again clean David
Millar in a TT without "a little help from his friends." That was a
huge clue.

Whatabout Contador, Garate and Cobo?

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) http://blog.reippuert.dk

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

In article
,
Doug Taylor wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:20:15 +0100, Simon Brooke
wrote:

in message , Doug Taylor
') wrote:

His TT. *Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
tours partly by TT results: *Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.

HELLO?

No, he hasn't tested positive, but you'd have to be pretty naive to
ignore the circumstantial evidence.

You're missing an important point here. Note: I'm not defending Rasmussen,
I don't know whether he's doped or not. However, Rasmussen has always been
a time trial specialist, he's just done his time trials on a road bike and
in the mountains. But unlike any other modern climber, his typical exploit
is a very long solo breakaway. He doesn't need anyone to work with him,
and he doesn't need anyone to chase. In effect these rides have been time
trials - they take exactly the same mental discipline as time trials, they
take exactly the same physical stamina as time trials, and they're
considerably tougher than most modern time trials.

We remember one specific time trial in which Rasmussen had every sort of
bad luck and lost his composure and his confidence totally, and we say 'he
can't time trial'. But that's just rubbish. He has put in astounding time
trial performances in all the last three tours - he just hasn't done it on
time trial stages.

Rasmussen /may/ have doped, but his time trial performance isn't any sort
of evidence of it.

The analysis is not entirely off the mark. Not to mention that he was
a mountain biker, and those races are really time trials in the woods.

But in THIS tour, he did a (in?)credible TT in a time trial stage.
Yes, he was defending a yellow jersey in this tour. In past tours,
when his TT stages were crap - and not just the 2006 embarrassment;
check 2005 - his goal was a polka dot jersey and a top 10 g.c.
finish. Could be apples and oranges.

But he came to THIS tour following training in what now appears to be
suspicious circumstances, which in retrospect should have precluded
his starting in the first place.

My guess is that he was blood doped to the gills with a plan to win
the race. Nobody but nobody picked him to be close to the podium
before the race. Then he starts putting big time in the Alps, holds on
with an unlikely TT performance, and then kicks major butt in every
single Pyrenees stage.

Sorry, but the cynical side of me says: Marco Pantani, Roberto Heras,
Ivan Basso, Mickael Rasmussen: Climbers who doped to win (almost win)
grand tours.

Doping will not keep you upright on your bicycle.

--
Michael Press

Doug Taylor wrote:

His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.

Rasmussen wouldn't have won TDF because of TT results.

Not true. He lost than 7 minutes in the 2005 TT

http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/res...es/8592.0.html

So did Cancelara in Albi.

and 8 minutes in 2006

http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/res...s/10535.0.html

This year he defends.

no, he lost by 2:55

Do the math.

do it yourself.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) http://blog.reippuert.dk

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

wrote:

Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
hours like a steam lokomotive.

Heras used to be much worse at TTs, then suddenly he got
good, suspiciously good. Contador is still pretty young,
so some improvement in TTs is not crazy.

Considering his size and weight it's just as crazy as Rasmussen doing
a reasonably good TT.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) http://blog.reippuert.dk

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 02:44:38 +0200, Morten Reippuert
wrote:

And, no way Skeletor bests a cyclist like a born again clean David
Millar in a TT without "a little help from his friends." That was a
huge clue.

Whatabout Contador, Garate and Cobo?

Well, last time I checked they weren't kicked off their national teams
then kicked off their pro team and out of the tour for lying about
their whereabouts and missing out of season dope tests, so I'll give
them the benefit of the doubt.

On Jul 26, 1:42 pm, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

everything but the discipline.

Good name for a band.

R

"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" wrote in message
news
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:00:40 +0200, Morten Reippuert
wrote:

Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
hours like a steam lokomotive.

Suddenly?

oh yes, tjeck your facts - even Indurain for the first years in his
cariar Indurain did the grupetto, he started going uphill well about
the same time EPO hit european cycling.

Amstrong couldn't climb until the 97 vuelta, even after his weightloss
he was still pretty big compared to true climbers. Of cource durring
the 90'es a lot of the bigger guys suddenly leart how to climb like
rockets.

Hincapee, thats evident.

Ulrich huge compared to the pure climbers.

Vinokrov. Look at the size of his legs, he has the stature of a
sprinter.

Morten, suddenly you sound like a fool. The simple facts are that EVERYONE
climbs faster now because everyone is training better, longer and harder.
And the equipment is fantastic. Just last weekend I did a metric century on
my C40 and blew away just about everyone on the climbs and they were small
climbs too. That's the difference between a 17 lb bike and 22 lb bike.

Why is it that climbers aren't up front the way they used to be? Because
strong teams have been putting the pace so high that the little climbers
were completely blown away before the climbs even started. That's how people
like Vino, Ullrich and Armstrong managed to make the climbers look bad.

The only reason that climbers have been dominating this year is because the
pace is a lot slower than normal.