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The regrettable necessity for a set of torque wrenches on bikes
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:05:07 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
As for standard 15mm open-end pedal wrench, I never once saw a mechanic use an open end torque wrench, and historically, I just reefed on it a bit and called it good. Maybe others have a more scientific approach. Much more scientific, though not required for pedals which can be set permanently by hand with a long T handle hex wrench. For total innocents, you put the hex on the short crossbar of the T into the bolt and pull on the long arm until it starts bending because, if you bought a good-quality tool, it is scaled to the maximum torque you can put on the size of fastener it fits. But crank bolts need a little more application and for them a proper ergonomic approach, away from home, is to park your bike beside a kerb or a stone of the right height, sit on the bike, brace one pedal against the kerb or the stone to stop the axle turning when you apply force, apply leg power on the short on-bike tool set into the crank bolt on the other side. Or you can brace the pedal against a handy lamp or fence post. I'm about 215 pounds, so I take care to keep my backsed planted firmly in the saddle, because otherwise I can easily over tighten bicycle components to the point of stripping them. From a time when I suffered constant creaking from Shimano's Nexus cranksets (they're supposedly Shimano's upmarket gruppo for the Premium 8sp HGB but they're crap), I discovered that 10% over-spec torqueing won't necessarily strip the threads. At home I use a big Bentley-vintage-size torque wrench with a loud click by hand, because the handle is long enough to make crank bolts easy-peasy. But after heart surgery, when I was as weak as a lamb, I decided I could afford another rare and wonderful torque wrench or several, but not another life, so I stepped on the pre-set big torque wrench as well, until it clicked; I had it calibrated afterwards by a competent engineering house and it was in perfect order, but the craftsman who did the calibration told me to keep my bum in the saddle because the lever arm with my 215lbs on it wouldn't necessarily break the torque wrench but because I wouldn't be able to take the load off quickly enough when it clicked and would almost certainly ruin the components. *** More generally, these days you really require a 2-16Nm torque wrench, a tiny thing against my big torque wrench, because, with certain non-critical exceptions like pedal and crank bolts, all the other fittings on the modern best quality bike are heading downwards in their torque spec. When I first saw the spec for tightening the axles through a Rohloff hub gearbox and SON hub dynamo, they were so low, I thought they'd somehow been mistranslated, but they were the same in the German original. They're basically so low that an extra quarter turn would tighten them overspeed. Here's a fancy torque wrench for cafe racers (no, I don't have one -- I have better already, and if I buy another one, it will be electronic-digital): https://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/pr...a-ii-2-16-pro/ There's a disconnect he you buy a bike made from expensively custom-pulled steel tubes and lugs from Ferrari's chassis-pusher, fitted with components of indestructible German agricultural machinery (the Rohloff gearbox wasn't designed for genteel tourers but for mud pluggers, and the SON is so heavy not from necessity but because it is German, and a damn good thing too), and then you're told you have to use a mickey mouse torque wrench every time you touch a bolt... And I'm not even talking about plastic bikes, in which the days of "tight as a duck's [deleted] and then a couple of turns more" bike blacksmiths are long since over. Andre Jute No, that's not an artificial hand, Miss, that's my torque wrench |
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#2
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The regrettable necessity for a set of torque wrenches on bikes
On 2018-09-30 15:33, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:05:07 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote: As for standard 15mm open-end pedal wrench, I never once saw a mechanic use an open end torque wrench, and historically, I just reefed on it a bit and called it good. Maybe others have a more scientific approach. Much more scientific, though not required for pedals which can be set permanently by hand with a long T handle hex wrench. For total innocents, you put the hex on the short crossbar of the T into the bolt and pull on the long arm until it starts bending because, if you bought a good-quality tool, it is scaled to the maximum torque you can put on the size of fastener it fits. But crank bolts need a little more application and for them a proper ergonomic approach, away from home, is to park your bike beside a kerb or a stone of the right height, sit on the bike, brace one pedal against the kerb or the stone to stop the axle turning when you apply force, apply leg power on the short on-bike tool set into the crank bolt on the other side. Or you can brace the pedal against a handy lamp or fence post. I'm about 215 pounds, so I take care to keep my backsed planted firmly in the saddle, because otherwise I can easily over tighten bicycle components to the point of stripping them. From a time when I suffered constant creaking from Shimano's Nexus cranksets (they're supposedly Shimano's upmarket gruppo for the Premium 8sp HGB but they're crap), I discovered that 10% over-spec torqueing won't necessarily strip the threads. At home I use a big Bentley-vintage-size torque wrench with a loud click by hand, because the handle is long enough to make crank bolts easy-peasy. But after heart surgery, when I was as weak as a lamb, I decided I could afford another rare and wonderful torque wrench or several, but not another life, so I stepped on the pre-set big torque wrench as well, until it clicked; I had it calibrated afterwards by a competent engineering house and it was in perfect order, but the craftsman who did the calibration told me to keep my bum in the saddle because the lever arm with my 215lbs on it wouldn't necessarily break the torque wrench but because I wouldn't be able to take the load off quickly enough when it clicked and would almost certainly ruin the components. *** More generally, these days you really require a 2-16Nm torque wrench, a tiny thing against my big torque wrench, because, with certain non-critical exceptions like pedal and crank bolts, all the other fittings on the modern best quality bike are heading downwards in their torque spec. When I first saw the spec for tightening the axles through a Rohloff hub gearbox and SON hub dynamo, they were so low, I thought they'd somehow been mistranslated, but they were the same in the German original. They're basically so low that an extra quarter turn would tighten them overspeed. Here's a fancy torque wrench for cafe racers (no, I don't have one -- I have better already, and if I buy another one, it will be electronic-digital): https://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/pr...a-ii-2-16-pro/ There's a disconnect he you buy a bike made from expensively custom-pulled steel tubes and lugs from Ferrari's chassis-pusher, fitted with components of indestructible German agricultural machinery (the Rohloff gearbox wasn't designed for genteel tourers but for mud pluggers, and the SON is so heavy not from necessity but because it is German, and a damn good thing too), and then you're told you have to use a mickey mouse torque wrench every time you touch a bolt... And I'm not even talking about plastic bikes, in which the days of "tight as a duck's [deleted] and then a couple of turns more" bike blacksmiths are long since over. Andre Jute No, that's not an artificial hand, Miss, that's my torque wrench What are the preferred torque wrenches these days, in the ~2-20Nm range? |
#3
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The regrettable necessity for a set of torque wrenches on bikes
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 7:31:56 PM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote:
On 2018-09-30 15:33, Andre Jute wrote: On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:05:07 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote: As for standard 15mm open-end pedal wrench, I never once saw a mechanic use an open end torque wrench, and historically, I just reefed on it a bit and called it good. Maybe others have a more scientific approach. Much more scientific, though not required for pedals which can be set permanently by hand with a long T handle hex wrench. For total innocents, you put the hex on the short crossbar of the T into the bolt and pull on the long arm until it starts bending because, if you bought a good-quality tool, it is scaled to the maximum torque you can put on the size of fastener it fits. But crank bolts need a little more application and for them a proper ergonomic approach, away from home, is to park your bike beside a kerb or a stone of the right height, sit on the bike, brace one pedal against the kerb or the stone to stop the axle turning when you apply force, apply leg power on the short on-bike tool set into the crank bolt on the other side. Or you can brace the pedal against a handy lamp or fence post. I'm about 215 pounds, so I take care to keep my backsed planted firmly in the saddle, because otherwise I can easily over tighten bicycle components to the point of stripping them. From a time when I suffered constant creaking from Shimano's Nexus cranksets (they're supposedly Shimano's upmarket gruppo for the Premium 8sp HGB but they're crap), I discovered that 10% over-spec torqueing won't necessarily strip the threads. At home I use a big Bentley-vintage-size torque wrench with a loud click by hand, because the handle is long enough to make crank bolts easy-peasy. But after heart surgery, when I was as weak as a lamb, I decided I could afford another rare and wonderful torque wrench or several, but not another life, so I stepped on the pre-set big torque wrench as well, until it clicked; I had it calibrated afterwards by a competent engineering house and it was in perfect order, but the craftsman who did the calibration told me to keep my bum in the saddle because the lever arm with my 215lbs on it wouldn't necessarily break the torque wrench but because I wouldn't be able to take the load off quickly enough when it clicked and would almost certainly ruin the components. *** More generally, these days you really require a 2-16Nm torque wrench, a tiny thing against my big torque wrench, because, with certain non-critical exceptions like pedal and crank bolts, all the other fittings on the modern best quality bike are heading downwards in their torque spec. When I first saw the spec for tightening the axles through a Rohloff hub gearbox and SON hub dynamo, they were so low, I thought they'd somehow been mistranslated, but they were the same in the German original. They're basically so low that an extra quarter turn would tighten them overspeed. Here's a fancy torque wrench for cafe racers (no, I don't have one -- I have better already, and if I buy another one, it will be electronic-digital): https://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/pr...a-ii-2-16-pro/ There's a disconnect he you buy a bike made from expensively custom-pulled steel tubes and lugs from Ferrari's chassis-pusher, fitted with components of indestructible German agricultural machinery (the Rohloff gearbox wasn't designed for genteel tourers but for mud pluggers, and the SON is so heavy not from necessity but because it is German, and a damn good thing too), and then you're told you have to use a mickey mouse torque wrench every time you touch a bolt... And I'm not even talking about plastic bikes, in which the days of "tight as a duck's [deleted] and then a couple of turns more" bike blacksmiths are long since over. Andre Jute No, that's not an artificial hand, Miss, that's my torque wrench What are the preferred torque wrenches these days, in the ~2-20Nm range? Check the photo at http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13067.0 and read the thread. Lotta people like the BBB BTL-73 which I've had for years, but, as the photo demonstrates, you can find the same torque wrench packaged for different brands much less expensively. Generally speaking the decision between the different rebrands, besides the price, is the number and spread of bits included. It helps to know which bits you need (you can find a list of the Rohloff-required bits in the referenced thread too, and page numbers for their source in the Rohloff literature) so that you can check that the case has space for the extra bits. The BBB one used to come in a clamshell plastic case with space for quite a few extra bits, but now it comes in a leather zip around shaped case. In any event, the BBB BTL-73 and its clones just flat-out work, shrug off abuse and use, and aren't too expensive (like the cafe racer Giusta Forza for over four times the price of the BBB BTL-73 which I posted earlier for a giggle). Andre Jute Let me torque you up, sugar bun Andre Jute |
#4
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The regrettable necessity for a set of torque wrenches on bikes
On 2018-09-30 21:48, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 7:31:56 PM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote: On 2018-09-30 15:33, Andre Jute wrote: On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:05:07 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote: As for standard 15mm open-end pedal wrench, I never once saw a mechanic use an open end torque wrench, and historically, I just reefed on it a bit and called it good. Maybe others have a more scientific approach. Much more scientific, though not required for pedals which can be set permanently by hand with a long T handle hex wrench. For total innocents, you put the hex on the short crossbar of the T into the bolt and pull on the long arm until it starts bending because, if you bought a good-quality tool, it is scaled to the maximum torque you can put on the size of fastener it fits. But crank bolts need a little more application and for them a proper ergonomic approach, away from home, is to park your bike beside a kerb or a stone of the right height, sit on the bike, brace one pedal against the kerb or the stone to stop the axle turning when you apply force, apply leg power on the short on-bike tool set into the crank bolt on the other side. Or you can brace the pedal against a handy lamp or fence post. I'm about 215 pounds, so I take care to keep my backsed planted firmly in the saddle, because otherwise I can easily over tighten bicycle components to the point of stripping them. From a time when I suffered constant creaking from Shimano's Nexus cranksets (they're supposedly Shimano's upmarket gruppo for the Premium 8sp HGB but they're crap), I discovered that 10% over-spec torqueing won't necessarily strip the threads. At home I use a big Bentley-vintage-size torque wrench with a loud click by hand, because the handle is long enough to make crank bolts easy-peasy. But after heart surgery, when I was as weak as a lamb, I decided I could afford another rare and wonderful torque wrench or several, but not another life, so I stepped on the pre-set big torque wrench as well, until it clicked; I had it calibrated afterwards by a competent engineering house and it was in perfect order, but the craftsman who did the calibration told me to keep my bum in the saddle because the lever arm with my 215lbs on it wouldn't necessarily break the torque wrench but because I wouldn't be able to take the load off quickly enough when it clicked and would almost certainly ruin the components. *** More generally, these days you really require a 2-16Nm torque wrench, a tiny thing against my big torque wrench, because, with certain non-critical exceptions like pedal and crank bolts, all the other fittings on the modern best quality bike are heading downwards in their torque spec. When I first saw the spec for tightening the axles through a Rohloff hub gearbox and SON hub dynamo, they were so low, I thought they'd somehow been mistranslated, but they were the same in the German original. They're basically so low that an extra quarter turn would tighten them overspeed. Here's a fancy torque wrench for cafe racers (no, I don't have one -- I have better already, and if I buy another one, it will be electronic-digital): https://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/pr...a-ii-2-16-pro/ There's a disconnect he you buy a bike made from expensively custom-pulled steel tubes and lugs from Ferrari's chassis-pusher, fitted with components of indestructible German agricultural machinery (the Rohloff gearbox wasn't designed for genteel tourers but for mud pluggers, and the SON is so heavy not from necessity but because it is German, and a damn good thing too), and then you're told you have to use a mickey mouse torque wrench every time you touch a bolt... And I'm not even talking about plastic bikes, in which the days of "tight as a duck's [deleted] and then a couple of turns more" bike blacksmiths are long since over. Andre Jute No, that's not an artificial hand, Miss, that's my torque wrench What are the preferred torque wrenches these days, in the ~2-20Nm range? Check the photo at http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13067.0 and read the thread. Lotta people like the BBB BTL-73 which I've had for years, but, as the photo demonstrates, you can find the same torque wrench packaged for different brands much less expensively. Generally speaking the decision between the different rebrands, besides the price, is the number and spread of bits included. It helps to know which bits you need (you can find a list of the Rohloff-required bits in the referenced thread too, and page numbers for their source in the Rohloff literature) so that you can check that the case has space for the extra bits. The BBB one used to come in a clamshell plastic case with space for quite a few extra bits, but now it comes in a leather zip around shaped case. In any event, the BBB BTL-73 and its clones just flat-out work, shrug off abuse and use, and aren't too expensive (like the cafe racer Giusta Forza for over four times the price of the BBB BTL-73 which I posted earlier for a giggle). Good read. I was considering the Norbar TTi20 1/4", 4 - 20 N·m, https://www.norbar.com/ru-ru/product...d/309/id/23368 Which looks pretty good for the money at around 80 squids. |
#5
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The regrettable necessity for a set of torque wrenches on bikes
On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 10:00:30 AM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote:
On 2018-09-30 21:48, Andre Jute wrote: On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 7:31:56 PM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote: On 2018-09-30 15:33, Andre Jute wrote: On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:05:07 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote: As for standard 15mm open-end pedal wrench, I never once saw a mechanic use an open end torque wrench, and historically, I just reefed on it a bit and called it good. Maybe others have a more scientific approach. Much more scientific, though not required for pedals which can be set permanently by hand with a long T handle hex wrench. For total innocents, you put the hex on the short crossbar of the T into the bolt and pull on the long arm until it starts bending because, if you bought a good-quality tool, it is scaled to the maximum torque you can put on the size of fastener it fits. But crank bolts need a little more application and for them a proper ergonomic approach, away from home, is to park your bike beside a kerb or a stone of the right height, sit on the bike, brace one pedal against the kerb or the stone to stop the axle turning when you apply force, apply leg power on the short on-bike tool set into the crank bolt on the other side. Or you can brace the pedal against a handy lamp or fence post. I'm about 215 pounds, so I take care to keep my backsed planted firmly in the saddle, because otherwise I can easily over tighten bicycle components to the point of stripping them. From a time when I suffered constant creaking from Shimano's Nexus cranksets (they're supposedly Shimano's upmarket gruppo for the Premium 8sp HGB but they're crap), I discovered that 10% over-spec torqueing won't necessarily strip the threads. At home I use a big Bentley-vintage-size torque wrench with a loud click by hand, because the handle is long enough to make crank bolts easy-peasy. But after heart surgery, when I was as weak as a lamb, I decided I could afford another rare and wonderful torque wrench or several, but not another life, so I stepped on the pre-set big torque wrench as well, until it clicked; I had it calibrated afterwards by a competent engineering house and it was in perfect order, but the craftsman who did the calibration told me to keep my bum in the saddle because the lever arm with my 215lbs on it wouldn't necessarily break the torque wrench but because I wouldn't be able to take the load off quickly enough when it clicked and would almost certainly ruin the components. *** More generally, these days you really require a 2-16Nm torque wrench, a tiny thing against my big torque wrench, because, with certain non-critical exceptions like pedal and crank bolts, all the other fittings on the modern best quality bike are heading downwards in their torque spec. When I first saw the spec for tightening the axles through a Rohloff hub gearbox and SON hub dynamo, they were so low, I thought they'd somehow been mistranslated, but they were the same in the German original. They're basically so low that an extra quarter turn would tighten them overspeed. Here's a fancy torque wrench for cafe racers (no, I don't have one -- I have better already, and if I buy another one, it will be electronic-digital): https://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/pr...a-ii-2-16-pro/ There's a disconnect he you buy a bike made from expensively custom-pulled steel tubes and lugs from Ferrari's chassis-pusher, fitted with components of indestructible German agricultural machinery (the Rohloff gearbox wasn't designed for genteel tourers but for mud pluggers, and the SON is so heavy not from necessity but because it is German, and a damn good thing too), and then you're told you have to use a mickey mouse torque wrench every time you touch a bolt... And I'm not even talking about plastic bikes, in which the days of "tight as a duck's [deleted] and then a couple of turns more" bike blacksmiths are long since over. Andre Jute No, that's not an artificial hand, Miss, that's my torque wrench What are the preferred torque wrenches these days, in the ~2-20Nm range? Check the photo at http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13067.0 and read the thread. Lotta people like the BBB BTL-73 which I've had for years, but, as the photo demonstrates, you can find the same torque wrench packaged for different brands much less expensively. Generally speaking the decision between the different rebrands, besides the price, is the number and spread of bits included. It helps to know which bits you need (you can find a list of the Rohloff-required bits in the referenced thread too, and page numbers for their source in the Rohloff literature) so that you can check that the case has space for the extra bits. The BBB one used to come in a clamshell plastic case with space for quite a few extra bits, but now it comes in a leather zip around shaped case. In any event, the BBB BTL-73 and its clones just flat-out work, shrug off abuse and use, and aren't too expensive (like the cafe racer Giusta Forza for over four times the price of the BBB BTL-73 which I posted earlier for a giggle). Good read. I was considering the Norbar TTi20 1/4", 4 - 20 N·m, https://www.norbar.com/ru-ru/product...d/309/id/23368 Which looks pretty good for the money at around 80 squids. That Norbar is pretty, but it seems expensive to me against he 50 quid or less for the BBB item, much less if branded by someone of lesser image. Also, 4Nm isn't low enough for a Rohloff owner. You want a torque wrench that goes down to at least 2Nm, preferably 1Nm. If you're resigned to paying more than the BBB item costs, have you seen the weight-weenie cyclist-specific torque wrenches Topeak offers? Andre Jute Measuring up |
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