How to clean Shimano derailleurs?

On 12/31/2018 9:30 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
:On 12/31/2018 2:39 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
: On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 08:12:27 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
: wrote:
:
: John B. Slocomb wrote:
: On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 06:46:57 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
: wrote:
:
: I've got a Shimano FD-4503 and an RD-M771 off my bike at the moment. They
: have years of dirt, grease and generalized grime on them. What cleaning
: methods are safe for these and what should I avoid? I will take the jockey
: wheels off the rear derailleur, but in general, I'm not really keen on
: taking things apart any more than that.
:
: I have always used a spray can of "engine cleaner" and a paintbrush.
: Spray the cleaner on, let it soak for a while and then wash it off
: with a hose. If there is a lot of really hard caked on stuff then
: spray, soak and scrub with the paint brush and then wash.
:
: I've also just tossed them in a bucket of cleaning solvent and let
: them soak over night and then washed them again with some sort of
: cleaner to get the solvent off. They are pretty much indestructible if
: you don't let the bike fall on them (or hit them with a hammer :-)
:
: I usually spray them with some sort of magic lubricating spray after
: they are clean although the total movement during a 1 hour ride is
: likely measured in inches.
:
: The "jockey wheels" are a pain in the neck as there are various wheels
: for various models of detailers and I usually pick the wrong one :-(
:
: You can buy, although I never have, jockey wheels with some sort of
: magic bearings that you just know will make you countless miles an
: hour faster :-) And of course the price is what one would want to pay
: for something that increased one's speed so dramatically :-)
:
: cheers,
:
: John B.
:
:
: As long as nothing dissolves in paint thinner or is ruined by soap and hot
: water, I'm good. I just wasn't sure if there were hidden plastic parts
: inside that might dissolve. Thanks.
:
: "paint thinner" is a nebulas term. Methyl-
: ethyl-ketone is sometimes used as a paint thinner and it is pretty
: fierce stuff. I don't think I'd want to use it around a bicycle.
:
: When I said "cleaning solvent" I was thinking of the kerosene like
: stuff that is used as a paint thinner. "Mineral spirits" I think it is
: called in the U.S.
:
: cheers,
:
: John B.
:
:

:Auto brake cleaner is mostly alcohol & acetone and is useful
:available and cheap.

Some places, you can still get chlorinated brake cleaners. They're
nice because they leave no residue. I find they work better on tough
grease and gunk buildup. the flamable ones work fine for oil and
grease films and lighter crud. They work on heavier stuff, but its
more work.


I miss having a parts washer....




Yeah the not flammable feature was nice. But chlorinated
solvents are hell on edged tools, especially hot cutters wet
with cutting oil; a spray of trichlor turns them deep brown
in an instant.

One of my former employees brought in a pair of Ford V8
heads, worked away at cleaning them with our brake cleaner
until he couldn't move a stud and then lit a torch. Trouble
is, the workbench, his shoes and several shop cloths were
soaked in alcohol already...

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 10:47:01 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
I've got a Shimano FD-4503 and an RD-M771 off my bike at the moment. They
have years of dirt, grease and generalized grime on them. What cleaning
methods are safe for these and what should I avoid? I will take the jockey
wheels off the rear derailleur, but in general, I'm not really keen on
taking things apart any more than that.

Just to make a suggestion - if you have that much dirt and grime you have no doubt had the bearing surfaces also penetrated. XT derailleurs aren't particularly expensive and a hell of a lot less expensive that constant fiddling with them. I would suggest buying a new one and cleaning it a great deal more often when TriFlow can wash most of the dirt off and not harm the bearing surfaces.

On 31/12/18 7:08 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:

You can buy, although I never have, jockey wheels with some sort of
magic bearings that you just know will make you countless miles an
hour faster :-) And of course the price is what one would want to pay
for something that increased one's speed so dramatically :-)

Campagnolo jockey wheels on my bike have what appears to be a soft
(bronze) metal outer bearing material that runs on a harder steel
sleeve. To make sure I was getting a good dose of grease in to the
bearing assembly, I drilled a hole from the outside of the jockey wheel,
all the way through the soft metal outer bearing material. Now I can
use a grease gun syringe to pump grease in until it squeezes out the
side plates. It has resulted in much less frequent maintenance and
lubrication of those parts.


--
JS

On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 10:05:52 +1100, James
wrote:

On 31/12/18 7:08 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:

You can buy, although I never have, jockey wheels with some sort of
magic bearings that you just know will make you countless miles an
hour faster :-) And of course the price is what one would want to pay
for something that increased one's speed so dramatically :-)

Campagnolo jockey wheels on my bike have what appears to be a soft
(bronze) metal outer bearing material that runs on a harder steel
sleeve. To make sure I was getting a good dose of grease in to the
bearing assembly, I drilled a hole from the outside of the jockey wheel,
all the way through the soft metal outer bearing material. Now I can
use a grease gun syringe to pump grease in until it squeezes out the
side plates. It has resulted in much less frequent maintenance and
lubrication of those parts.


Egad! Here are people complaining about the time spent on lubeing
their chain and there you are creeping around on your hands and knees
with a needle :-)


But, in a more serious vein, do get longer life with the greased
bearings?

I know that you ride a significant number of miles (kilometers)
annually so if anyone is going to wear out jockey wheels it will
likely be you. Does greasing help? If so I wonder could one get, or
make, jockey wheels with sealed ball bearings?

cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 02 Jan 2019 07:19:52 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 10:05:52 +1100, James
wrote:

On 31/12/18 7:08 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:

You can buy, although I never have, jockey wheels with some sort of
magic bearings that you just know will make you countless miles an
hour faster :-) And of course the price is what one would want to pay
for something that increased one's speed so dramatically :-)

Campagnolo jockey wheels on my bike have what appears to be a soft
(bronze) metal outer bearing material that runs on a harder steel
sleeve. To make sure I was getting a good dose of grease in to the
bearing assembly, I drilled a hole from the outside of the jockey wheel,
all the way through the soft metal outer bearing material. Now I can
use a grease gun syringe to pump grease in until it squeezes out the
side plates. It has resulted in much less frequent maintenance and
lubrication of those parts.


Egad! Here are people complaining about the time spent on lubeing
their chain and there you are creeping around on your hands and knees
with a needle :-)


But, in a more serious vein, do /\ get longer life with the greased
bearings?

I know that you ride a significant number of miles (kilometers)
annually so if anyone is going to wear out jockey wheels it will
likely be you. Does greasing help? If so I wonder could one get, or
make, jockey wheels with sealed ball bearings?

cheers,

John B.


Should be "do you get"

cheers,

John B.

On 1/1/2019 7:19 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 10:05:52 +1100, James
wrote:

On 31/12/18 7:08 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:

You can buy, although I never have, jockey wheels with some sort of
magic bearings that you just know will make you countless miles an
hour faster :-) And of course the price is what one would want to pay
for something that increased one's speed so dramatically :-)

Campagnolo jockey wheels on my bike have what appears to be a soft
(bronze) metal outer bearing material that runs on a harder steel
sleeve. To make sure I was getting a good dose of grease in to the
bearing assembly, I drilled a hole from the outside of the jockey wheel,
all the way through the soft metal outer bearing material. Now I can
use a grease gun syringe to pump grease in until it squeezes out the
side plates. It has resulted in much less frequent maintenance and
lubrication of those parts.


Egad! Here are people complaining about the time spent on lubeing
their chain and there you are creeping around on your hands and knees
with a needle :-)


But, in a more serious vein, do get longer life with the greased
bearings?

I know that you ride a significant number of miles (kilometers)
annually so if anyone is going to wear out jockey wheels it will
likely be you. Does greasing help? If so I wonder could one get, or
make, jockey wheels with sealed ball bearings?

I don't do James's mileage, but I have worn out jockey pulleys. The
original set on my 1986 SunTour Superbe derailleur would still work, I
suppose, but the teeth on the cogs were really worn down. And on one
dirty, muddy bike tour, they squealed very badly. After that incident, I
replaced them with an even older set with un-sealed ball bearings that I
dug out of an old Huret derailleur.

You can get sealed bearing idler pulleys. I have a NOS pair in a drawer,
bought at a sort of estate sale.
http://www.bikerecyclery.com/nos-bul...ealed-bearing/


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/1/2019 6:19 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 10:05:52 +1100, James
wrote:

On 31/12/18 7:08 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:

You can buy, although I never have, jockey wheels with some sort of
magic bearings that you just know will make you countless miles an
hour faster :-) And of course the price is what one would want to pay
for something that increased one's speed so dramatically :-)

Campagnolo jockey wheels on my bike have what appears to be a soft
(bronze) metal outer bearing material that runs on a harder steel
sleeve. To make sure I was getting a good dose of grease in to the
bearing assembly, I drilled a hole from the outside of the jockey wheel,
all the way through the soft metal outer bearing material. Now I can
use a grease gun syringe to pump grease in until it squeezes out the
side plates. It has resulted in much less frequent maintenance and
lubrication of those parts.


Egad! Here are people complaining about the time spent on lubeing
their chain and there you are creeping around on your hands and knees
with a needle :-)


But, in a more serious vein, do get longer life with the greased
bearings?

I know that you ride a significant number of miles (kilometers)
annually so if anyone is going to wear out jockey wheels it will
likely be you. Does greasing help? If so I wonder could one get, or
make, jockey wheels with sealed ball bearings?


Sure. They're cheap and common. More than generic Shimano
style rollers but less than actual Campagnolo bronze sleeve
rollers; $20/pair.

Expensive versions exist but I have no experience with them.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 1 Jan 2019 20:14:46 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/1/2019 7:19 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 10:05:52 +1100, James
wrote:

On 31/12/18 7:08 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:

You can buy, although I never have, jockey wheels with some sort of
magic bearings that you just know will make you countless miles an
hour faster :-) And of course the price is what one would want to pay
for something that increased one's speed so dramatically :-)

Campagnolo jockey wheels on my bike have what appears to be a soft
(bronze) metal outer bearing material that runs on a harder steel
sleeve. To make sure I was getting a good dose of grease in to the
bearing assembly, I drilled a hole from the outside of the jockey wheel,
all the way through the soft metal outer bearing material. Now I can
use a grease gun syringe to pump grease in until it squeezes out the
side plates. It has resulted in much less frequent maintenance and
lubrication of those parts.


Egad! Here are people complaining about the time spent on lubeing
their chain and there you are creeping around on your hands and knees
with a needle :-)


But, in a more serious vein, do get longer life with the greased
bearings?

I know that you ride a significant number of miles (kilometers)
annually so if anyone is going to wear out jockey wheels it will
likely be you. Does greasing help? If so I wonder could one get, or
make, jockey wheels with sealed ball bearings?

I don't do James's mileage, but I have worn out jockey pulleys. The
original set on my 1986 SunTour Superbe derailleur would still work, I
suppose, but the teeth on the cogs were really worn down. And on one
dirty, muddy bike tour, they squealed very badly. After that incident, I
replaced them with an even older set with un-sealed ball bearings that I
dug out of an old Huret derailleur.

You can get sealed bearing idler pulleys. I have a NOS pair in a drawer,
bought at a sort of estate sale.
http://www.bikerecyclery.com/nos-bul...ealed-bearing/

Red, and so obviously faster, but still $44.99? One wonders, are they
that much faster :-?

cheers,

John B.

On 2/1/19 11:19 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 10:05:52 +1100, James
wrote:

On 31/12/18 7:08 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:

You can buy, although I never have, jockey wheels with some sort of
magic bearings that you just know will make you countless miles an
hour faster :-) And of course the price is what one would want to pay
for something that increased one's speed so dramatically :-)

Campagnolo jockey wheels on my bike have what appears to be a soft
(bronze) metal outer bearing material that runs on a harder steel
sleeve. To make sure I was getting a good dose of grease in to the
bearing assembly, I drilled a hole from the outside of the jockey wheel,
all the way through the soft metal outer bearing material. Now I can
use a grease gun syringe to pump grease in until it squeezes out the
side plates. It has resulted in much less frequent maintenance and
lubrication of those parts.


Egad! Here are people complaining about the time spent on lubeing
their chain and there you are creeping around on your hands and knees
with a needle :-)


You might imagine something like that, but when the bike is secured on a
bike mechanic stand, accessing the jockey wheels isn't a crawling job.
Finding the hole might be a challenge if the wheel is coated in crud,
but thankfully the wax lubricant I use doesn't leave a thick layer of crud.


But, in a more serious vein, do get longer life with the greased
bearings?


It's been a few thousand kms since I drilled the holes and pumped them
full of grease. I'll try to remember to post a message when I decide to
squirt some more grease in the hole.

I know that you ride a significant number of miles (kilometers)
annually so if anyone is going to wear out jockey wheels it will
likely be you. Does greasing help? If so I wonder could one get, or
make, jockey wheels with sealed ball bearings?

Yes there are jockey wheels available with cough sealed cough ball
bearings.

I had a pair once. The seals didn't last particularly long and then the
less well sealed bearings went very ordinary. I think a plain bearing
is fine provided you can lubricate them well. Trouble I had was packing
them with grease during assembly. So I considered there had to be a
better way to pack them with grease after they were assembled. Hence, a
hole and grease syringe.


There are jockey wheels available with ceramic bushes as well. I assume
if the lube is kept up to them, the wheels wear out long before the
bearing material gets sloppy.

The benefit of squeezing grease in to the middle of the bearing is that
it forces grit out. Hence less need to disassemble and clean.

--
JS

On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 13:02:49 +1100, James
wrote:

On 2/1/19 11:19 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 10:05:52 +1100, James
wrote:

On 31/12/18 7:08 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:

You can buy, although I never have, jockey wheels with some sort of
magic bearings that you just know will make you countless miles an
hour faster :-) And of course the price is what one would want to pay
for something that increased one's speed so dramatically :-)

Campagnolo jockey wheels on my bike have what appears to be a soft
(bronze) metal outer bearing material that runs on a harder steel
sleeve. To make sure I was getting a good dose of grease in to the
bearing assembly, I drilled a hole from the outside of the jockey wheel,
all the way through the soft metal outer bearing material. Now I can
use a grease gun syringe to pump grease in until it squeezes out the
side plates. It has resulted in much less frequent maintenance and
lubrication of those parts.


Egad! Here are people complaining about the time spent on lubeing
their chain and there you are creeping around on your hands and knees
with a needle :-)


You might imagine something like that, but when the bike is secured on a
bike mechanic stand, accessing the jockey wheels isn't a crawling job.
Finding the hole might be a challenge if the wheel is coated in crud,
but thankfully the wax lubricant I use doesn't leave a thick layer of crud.


But, in a more serious vein, do get longer life with the greased
bearings?


It's been a few thousand kms since I drilled the holes and pumped them
full of grease. I'll try to remember to post a message when I decide to
squirt some more grease in the hole.

I know that you ride a significant number of miles (kilometers)
annually so if anyone is going to wear out jockey wheels it will
likely be you. Does greasing help? If so I wonder could one get, or
make, jockey wheels with sealed ball bearings?

Yes there are jockey wheels available with cough sealed cough ball
bearings.

I had a pair once. The seals didn't last particularly long and then the
less well sealed bearings went very ordinary. I think a plain bearing
is fine provided you can lubricate them well. Trouble I had was packing
them with grease during assembly. So I considered there had to be a
better way to pack them with grease after they were assembled. Hence, a
hole and grease syringe.


There are jockey wheels available with ceramic bushes as well. I assume
if the lube is kept up to them, the wheels wear out long before the
bearing material gets sloppy.

The benefit of squeezing grease in to the middle of the bearing is that
it forces grit out. Hence less need to disassemble and clean.

Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them the standard
technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease came out. Now of
course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new car... the first
check is at 10,000 km.


cheers,

John B.