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Coaster Brake Failure



 
 
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  #31  
Old February 27th 19, 11:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket




Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in
software design.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk



Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using
library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and
been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is
subject to failure :-)

--

Cheers,

John B.
Ads
  #32  
Old February 27th 19, 11:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 07:25:37 +1100, James
wrote:

On 26/2/19 7:06 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 18:09:31 +1100, James
wrote:

On 26/2/19 5:09 pm, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/26/19 12:28 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 20:39:48 +0100, Tosspot
wrote:

On 2/25/19 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket




Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old?

It's fake news.* We all know that the old days were *far* superior to
modern rim/disc brakes.

Honestly, greasing brakes!

Actually the old style single speed coaster brakes did have grease or
oil in them. See
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/coaster-brakes.html
under "Lubrication".

It's brakes and grease, I will never surrender my opinion this is a good
thing[TM].* How do they work?


I think most tractors have wet brakes. Mine does. They seem to work.


Wet as in "water" or wet as in "oil"?


They run in transmission oil. Sealed from the elements and oil cooled.


If, and I am assuming, you mean farm tractor as apposed to road
tractor (and trailer) do the breaks get that hot? I know that
Caterpillar earth moving tractors (Bulldozers) have internal brakes
but I always assumed that was more a matter of keeping things clean
rather than cooling.
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #33  
Old February 28th 19, 12:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 05:54:43 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 07:25:37 +1100, James
wrote:

On 26/2/19 7:06 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 18:09:31 +1100, James
wrote:

On 26/2/19 5:09 pm, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/26/19 12:28 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 20:39:48 +0100, Tosspot
wrote:

On 2/25/19 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket




Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old?

It's fake news.* We all know that the old days were *far* superior to
modern rim/disc brakes.

Honestly, greasing brakes!

Actually the old style single speed coaster brakes did have grease or
oil in them. See
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/coaster-brakes.html
under "Lubrication".

It's brakes and grease, I will never surrender my opinion this is a good
thing[TM].* How do they work?


I think most tractors have wet brakes. Mine does. They seem to work.

Wet as in "water" or wet as in "oil"?


They run in transmission oil. Sealed from the elements and oil cooled.


If, and I am assuming, you mean farm tractor as apposed to road
tractor (and trailer) do the breaks get that hot? I know that
Caterpillar earth moving tractors (Bulldozers) have internal brakes
but I always assumed that was more a matter of keeping things clean
rather than cooling.


do the brakes get hot :-(
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #34  
Old February 28th 19, 07:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,153
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On 28/2/19 10:07 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 05:54:43 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 07:25:37 +1100, James
wrote:

On 26/2/19 7:06 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 18:09:31 +1100, James
wrote:


I think most tractors have wet brakes. Mine does. They seem to work.

Wet as in "water" or wet as in "oil"?

They run in transmission oil. Sealed from the elements and oil cooled.


If, and I am assuming, you mean farm tractor as apposed to road
tractor (and trailer) do the breaks get that hot? I know that
Caterpillar earth moving tractors (Bulldozers) have internal brakes
but I always assumed that was more a matter of keeping things clean
rather than cooling.


do the brakes get hot :-(


Yes a farm tractor. I've never heard of a road tractor (and trailer).
What do you mean by that?

For the work I do with my tractor they don't get at all hot. Apparently
they can heat up though. Like most tractors, the brake pedal is split
in two. Left and right side brakes can be controlled individually, or
the pedals joined as one. To help turn, apparently, you can apply the
brake to one side only, and in boggy or slippery conditions, you can
apply the brake to the side that is spinning so that power is delivered
to the tyre with grip. My tractor also has a rear diff lock and is 4WD,
so it has to be quite slippery or very uneven ground before I get stuck.

I think though reliability is the key. They apparently last much longer
without maintenance than a dry type would that is exposed to dirt and water.

--
JS
  #35  
Old February 28th 19, 09:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:25:28 +1100, James
wrote:

On 28/2/19 10:07 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 05:54:43 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 07:25:37 +1100, James
wrote:

On 26/2/19 7:06 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 18:09:31 +1100, James
wrote:


I think most tractors have wet brakes. Mine does. They seem to work.

Wet as in "water" or wet as in "oil"?

They run in transmission oil. Sealed from the elements and oil cooled.

If, and I am assuming, you mean farm tractor as apposed to road
tractor (and trailer) do the breaks get that hot? I know that
Caterpillar earth moving tractors (Bulldozers) have internal brakes
but I always assumed that was more a matter of keeping things clean
rather than cooling.


do the brakes get hot :-(


Yes a farm tractor. I've never heard of a road tractor (and trailer).
What do you mean by that?


It may be a USian term. A tractor is a short wheelbase truck with a
"fifth wheel" coupling to haul a trailer see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth-wheel_coupling
We use the term "tractor-trailer", or sometimes "Semi-trailer" to
describe the rig, but the front powered truck portion is always called
a tractor.

In Australia I think that they haul more than one trailer and get
called a "road train".

For the work I do with my tractor they don't get at all hot. Apparently
they can heat up though. Like most tractors, the brake pedal is split
in two. Left and right side brakes can be controlled individually, or
the pedals joined as one. To help turn, apparently, you can apply the
brake to one side only, and in boggy or slippery conditions, you can
apply the brake to the side that is spinning so that power is delivered
to the tyre with grip. My tractor also has a rear diff lock and is 4WD,
so it has to be quite slippery or very uneven ground before I get stuck.

I think though reliability is the key. They apparently last much longer
without maintenance than a dry type would that is exposed to dirt and water.


Well, a bull-dozer, technically called a Tractor, has internal
steering brakes but I don't remember ever changing or maintaining
them. They just worked. But of course at full throttle you could
probably outrun one barefooted so stopping from speed didn't enter
into the equation :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #36  
Old February 28th 19, 06:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 840
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On 2/27/2019 12:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/27/2019 3:08 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 27, 2019 at 11:17:07 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/27/2019 10:36 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 27, 2019 at 8:09:00 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket





Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's
optimize it
Â*Â* anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using
library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be
caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

I am saying this as an engineer who designs electroncics.

I have Ultegra Di2 on my super rain bike Synapse.Â* Works great
except that I broke the rear derailleur wire being careless cleaning
the bike in a wash stand.Â* I soldered the broken wire and
shrink-wrapped it. I also bought a new wire, but the repair seems to
be working fine.

The problem with Di2 -- or maybe just 11sp -- is that chain wear
beyond .5% but below .75% really degrades shifting.Â* Down-shifts
hang up.Â* I threw on a new chain last night, and now it shifts
great.Â* I didn't think I had that much mileage on the chain, but I
guess I did. I bought a couple $19 11sp 105 chains from Western
Bikeworks for back-ups.

The great thing about Western is that if you buy $50, it's free
shipping, but if you pick up in store, its $5 off.Â* I can ride to
the store on my way home from work and save $5, although not today
because it snowed, and I slacked-off and car-pooled with my son.

-- Jay Beattie.


SRAM says their new 12 system has bigger chain rollers &
rivets. For which you need a new chain tool.


And for which they have a chain company. Tres convenient. I wonder how
many of the chain manufacturers are going to follow them down that
rabbit hole.


Remember years ago when Shimano tried to get us to buy 10mm chain?


Yup. "It's lighter" or... something. For those of you who missed it,
the links were 10mm long instead of the standard 1/2 inch. I think it
was primarily promoted as a track item (this was before the street
"fixie" fad).

Mark J.

  #37  
Old March 1st 19, 01:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket




Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk



Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using
library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and
been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is
subject to failure :-)


That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a rock.

Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts per charge
is finite. I was told that front shifts are especially hard on the
battery and on mountainous singletrack that's used a lot.

If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend that on a
Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the complete gear range at very
low or zero speed which is very useful in MTB riding. To heck with the
extra weight.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #38  
Old March 1st 19, 02:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:49:52 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket




Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using
library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and
been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is
subject to failure :-)


That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a rock.

Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts per charge
is finite. I was told that front shifts are especially hard on the
battery and on mountainous singletrack that's used a lot.

Well, I don't have an electric shift but I have read that folks that
use the Shimano electric shift have to recharge, or replace the
battery every year or so, which doesn't sound like an impossibly
frequent task.

If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend that on a
Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the complete gear range at very
low or zero speed which is very useful in MTB riding. To heck with the
extra weight.


Good Lord! You have been talking about retirement, you own two cars,
You live in a gated community and can't afford a thousand dollars?
Look at it as an investment, after all you could change the rear wheel
when you change bikes.

The other day I was reading, in another group, about a guy that was
buying a cheap hand phone for a pre-teen kid and it was "only" $180. I
had assumed that all you "round eyes" were rich.
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #39  
Old March 1st 19, 03:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:49:52 -0800, Joerg wrote:

If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend that on a
Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the complete gear range at very
low or zero speed which is very useful in MTB riding. To heck with the
extra weight.


Have they improved the reliability of Rohloffs now.
At one stage it came with a "too much force" caveat and I viewed it as
unreliable off road(real offf road).

  #40  
Old March 1st 19, 03:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Coaster Brake Failure

On 2/28/2019 6:49 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket





Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design
100+ years
old?

They must have improved it.


In German there is the inofficial word
"verschlimmbessern". It sums
up the action of "Here we have a working design but
let's optimize it
anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common
scenario in
software design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk


Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned.
People using
library modules that others have written, assuming
everything in those
we be just fine. And then things aren't.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the
least amount of
electronics and software in there and, for example, will
never be caught
with electronic shifters on a bicycle.

True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables
break and
been restricted to a single gear. It appears that
everything is
subject to failure :-)


That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a
rock.

Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts
per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are
especially hard on the battery and on mountainous
singletrack that's used a lot.

If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend
that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the
complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very
useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight.


Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up:

https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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