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#101
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 16:18:23 -0500, Duane
wrote: On 05/11/2019 1:24 p.m., AMuzi wrote: On 11/5/2019 12:14 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/5/2019 9:00 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 11/4/2019 9:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/4/2019 1:44 PM, pH wrote: Stop me before I post again..... Okay, last time, then I'm going outside. Here are *26* kits that were around in 2014. There was a TdF rider who was accused of using a motor assist some years back, wasn't there?Â* Kit Number 10 in this list could have been the culprit if true. pH in Aptos https://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kits/ I'm curious about how the Yellow Jersey bike shop is responding to this ebike trend. Andy? We walked away a few years ago when we were unable to provide any service beyond "replace entire system" to customers with products we sold. There's a current front page article in our industry news on that very subject: https://read.dmtmag.com/i/1179600-no...ew s+Audience Lower right, "E-bike Service Can Mean Saying 'No' " This situation may well change, and our opinion will change, but despite the hype the product is generally not ready for average consumers IMHO. We're very good with mechanical, machining, welding/brazing processes and electromechanical systems such as classic autos and motorcycles. E-bike troubles are often not in those realms, rather software, sensors, semiconductor circuits, motor controller systems, batteries and connectors/fixtures of the lowest orders. It's one thing for the importer to reply in text that you have to replace the entire system. It's quite another to look a man in the eye and say that. In my experience, some dealers have that skill.*** :-/ In the early 1970s, I bought a 350cc Kawasaki A7, a rotary valve twin with one of the first motorcycle electronic ignitions - capacitive discharge, surface gap plugs, triggered by a magnet and sensor instead of points. It was wonderful, much better starting and running than my previous 2-stroke bikes. Until one day on a camping trip up in the mountains, a massive thunderstorm hit. My friend and I pulled under shelter to wait it out. When I tried to re-start, one of the electronic boxes emitted sizzles, sparks and smoke. The dealer in my small town claimed that the entire ignition system had to be replaced, and at about half the cost of the bike. According to him, that included the permanent magnet. How does water damage a permanent magnet?? I retrofitted a classic points-and-coil system instead. I have to explain to Engine Guru twice a year that, no, I'm not interested in electronic ignition and yes I'm happy to clean and gap mechanical points. I was once up on US 666 between Payson and Snowflake 3am in a snowstorm [1]. Rental truck was missing and popping. I pulled a matchbook across the points, gapped them by ear and drove on. Mr Engine Guru says modern are much simpler, you just drop in a new electronic module. This is not communication, as we see the problem from different universes. I used to carry spare rotor, points and condenser in my glove compartment and was able to get things going when they broke. The bad part was that I had to do that occasionally. I haven't had a problem like that with an electronic ignition in - well I don't remember the last time. [1]45 years ago that highway was not as nice as now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-1wTo5oVUI I drove cars with points and condenser ignition from about 1948 until about 1972 and except for one instance (the distributor moved) I can't remember ever having any problems with them. Of course, I was a greasy handed mechanic so I did do frequent maintenance but no failures. -- cheers, John B. |
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#102
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On 11/5/2019 8:55 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 01:45:00 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 04:06:38 UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 00:15:43 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 02:24:05 UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 22:51:30 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/4/2019 9:52 PM, news18 wrote: On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 07:06:34 +0700, John B. wrote: On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane wrote: On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote: On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote: (Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at high rpm.) This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates. Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the "transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be utilized by the machinery. The problem is solvable :-) Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...o-go-electric- bicycle/ The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/ the usual 18650 battery format technology. Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now. A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian company called "Elation". 250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business. ...... I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot pedal assist. Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same laws across tha nation, (a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think.. The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals. That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com". Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks. -- cheers, John B. In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle. Cheers Yes but we?re we?re talking more about road bikes I think. https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...electric-road- bikes/?lang=en People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain their levels. But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist up to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor. -- Jay Beattie. I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more expensive and sold out. Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a sport for the impoverished :-) It hasn't been for a while. In the 70's, so long as the wheels went round and stayed that shape, you could go on a ride and enjoy yourself. Now it is mostly about buying the latest useless trash to look good and making sure you stay "connected" to plaster selfies of everything you do, look at, touch, blah, blah, blah. _Bicycling_ magazine is the most popular American cycling magazine. There are good reasons it's mocked as _Buycycling_. If you look at their web page, way down at the bottom there is a notice: "Bicycling participates in various affiliate marketing programs, which means we may get paid commissions on editorially chosen products purchased through our links to retailer sites." Which might make one a bit skeptical about the article titled "The best new whatchamacallit for your bike" :-) -- cheers, John B. Bicycling Magazine went that way in the 1980s. Too bad as they used to have some really great articles in it as well as How to do this repair tips. I don't remember the name of the magazine but back in maybe sometime in the '80's I used to buy a bike magazine that had all kind of good information. How to adjust you seat and handle bars, etc. I even remember a detailed article on how to patch "sew ups" that recommended dental floss to sew the casing. I've still got a roll in one of my tool boxes :-) Then again, many magazines have gone the same route. I can't remember the last time I bought a paper magazine. Mostly ads and a tiny bit of subject related content is why. Remember Popular Mechanics. they used to have some super how to make it articles. I remember one that had, over several issues, detailed instructions and plans to built a midget race car, I even remember that it used a Ford 60 engine :-) Another series had an article about making a knife out of a power hacksaw blade which my father used to make a hunting knife that he used for probably 30 or 40 years. -- cheers, John B. I didn't read about it in Popular Mechanics but I too made many knife blades from power hacksaw blades. The knives I made had curved blades and were most useful for making things that like bowls or spoons. Things that required a hollowed out area on their surface. I guess with magazines it's a downward spiral. Ads take the place of content which reduces readership more and to make up the lost readership revenue (as little as it is) the magazine ads even more ad content further reducing space for articles which further reduces readership which leads to yet more advertising space. Sooner or later the magazine becomes an ad magazine with a minuscule amount of actual article space. Before I stopped buying paper magazines I took a few apart and added up the amount of ad space and the amount of actual content. Even then I was quite surprised at how little actual article content there was and so I stopped buying magazines. I have no idea what modern magazines are like with regards to ad copy versus article content but I don't think it's any better than it was when I stopped buying magazines. Cheers I know little about magazines but in the newspaper business, which I assume is similar, it is income from advertisements that really counts. Which, of course, translates, to some extent, into circulation figures. One of my acquaintances was the publisher of a newspaper (before he died). He assured me that a huge portion of the revenue was from advertising. That included classified ads (which Craigslist and Ebay have all but killed). And there have been times I've stopped renewing a magazine subscription but still gotten issues mailed to me for months after. (That's happening right now with one magazine.) I think it's a way they can inflate their circulation counts when soliciting ads. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#103
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On 11/5/2019 9:23 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 13:08:00 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: If I saw even one review that ended with “This product is a piece of crap and we’re not sure why anyone would buy it”, I would feel a lot better about the rest of the reviews. If you ever see that you can be assured that company does not advertise in that magazine :-) Although there is or was a publication that evaluates different things and rated them. Consumer Digest? Report? Anyway, they once tested a bunch of cheap .22 rifles and downgraded them because they were single shot. Which kind of put me off as at the time all cheap .22 rifles were single shot :-) Consumer Reports has some value, but it's "experts" can be clueless. Back in the 1970s they tested a bunch of then-fashionable "ten speed" bikes. They gave heavy credit to those that would roll the farthest on level ground after coasting down an incline, taking that as a measure of bike quality. They didn't notice that all those "winners" had the then-new 90 psi tires, and the "losers" had 70 psi tires. In fact, they might not have known that it's possible to change tires. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#104
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On 11/5/2019 9:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 11:24:39 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote: John B. wrote: On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 03:34:07 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote: John B. wrote: On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:11:35 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote: (Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at high rpm.) This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates. Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the "transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be utilized by the machinery. The problem is solvable :-) Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/ The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/ the usual 18650 battery format technology. Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now. A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian company called "Elation". 250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business. ...... I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot pedal assist. Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same laws across tha nation, (a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think.. The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals. That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com". Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks. -- cheers, John B. In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle. Cheers Yes but we?re we?re talking more about road bikes I think. https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...bikes/?lang=en People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain their levels. That goes to show how unrealistic some people are. Put an electric motor on the bike and gee! I'm just as fast as I was when I was twenty... Why not put on a bigger motor and Lo! One would be even faster than they were at 20 :-) Or maybe an even larger motor and set records :-) -- cheers, John B. Who the **** said anything about being faster than when they were 20? No one, but someone did say, "People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain their levels. " And I guessed that the "levels" would be what they were when they were young and frisky, i.e., 20 years old , not what they were as they coasted past 70, sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything. -- cheers, John B. Their levels, to me meant last year’s levels before that surgery or whatever. Having had surgery and am still recovering I would hope my "level" does get better. Jeez I know a lot of people around 70 that are in better shape than that. You know a lot of people around 70...Five? Ten? Assuming that you are in the U.S. some 80% percent of the population doesn't even get minimum levels of exercise, to say nothing of developing stamina. If you work try telling all your co-workers that you "just did a 50 mile bicycle ride on Sunday" and watch their faces. Half of them won't believe you and the other half will recoil in amazement that anyone could ride a bicycle such a tendentiously long distance. Back when I was running I once mentioned, at work, that "I usually run 5 miles before breakfast four mornings a week" and people could hardly believe it. FIVE MILES! Ohhh, so long! When our kid was in a grade-school-level scout group, we took the troop on a bike ride. Seven miles! The parents were absolutely astounded! But I should make allowances. I still recall one of the longest rides I did with friends when I was a young teen, "all the way out" to some intersection in the country. It seemed epic, and we were totally beat when we made it back home. I had a chance to duplicate the ride a few years ago. It was less than ten miles. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#105
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 22:42:00 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 11/5/2019 8:55 PM, John B. wrote: On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 01:45:00 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 04:06:38 UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 00:15:43 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 02:24:05 UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 22:51:30 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/4/2019 9:52 PM, news18 wrote: On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 07:06:34 +0700, John B. wrote: On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane wrote: On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote: On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote: (Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at high rpm.) This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates. Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the "transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be utilized by the machinery. The problem is solvable :-) Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...o-go-electric- bicycle/ The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/ the usual 18650 battery format technology. Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now. A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian company called "Elation". 250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business. ...... I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot pedal assist. Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same laws across tha nation, (a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think.. The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals. That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com". Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks. -- cheers, John B. In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle. Cheers Yes but we?re we?re talking more about road bikes I think. https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...electric-road- bikes/?lang=en People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain their levels. But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist up to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor. -- Jay Beattie. I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more expensive and sold out. Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a sport for the impoverished :-) It hasn't been for a while. In the 70's, so long as the wheels went round and stayed that shape, you could go on a ride and enjoy yourself. Now it is mostly about buying the latest useless trash to look good and making sure you stay "connected" to plaster selfies of everything you do, look at, touch, blah, blah, blah. _Bicycling_ magazine is the most popular American cycling magazine. There are good reasons it's mocked as _Buycycling_. If you look at their web page, way down at the bottom there is a notice: "Bicycling participates in various affiliate marketing programs, which means we may get paid commissions on editorially chosen products purchased through our links to retailer sites." Which might make one a bit skeptical about the article titled "The best new whatchamacallit for your bike" :-) -- cheers, John B. Bicycling Magazine went that way in the 1980s. Too bad as they used to have some really great articles in it as well as How to do this repair tips. I don't remember the name of the magazine but back in maybe sometime in the '80's I used to buy a bike magazine that had all kind of good information. How to adjust you seat and handle bars, etc. I even remember a detailed article on how to patch "sew ups" that recommended dental floss to sew the casing. I've still got a roll in one of my tool boxes :-) Then again, many magazines have gone the same route. I can't remember the last time I bought a paper magazine. Mostly ads and a tiny bit of subject related content is why. Remember Popular Mechanics. they used to have some super how to make it articles. I remember one that had, over several issues, detailed instructions and plans to built a midget race car, I even remember that it used a Ford 60 engine :-) Another series had an article about making a knife out of a power hacksaw blade which my father used to make a hunting knife that he used for probably 30 or 40 years. -- cheers, John B. I didn't read about it in Popular Mechanics but I too made many knife blades from power hacksaw blades. The knives I made had curved blades and were most useful for making things that like bowls or spoons. Things that required a hollowed out area on their surface. I guess with magazines it's a downward spiral. Ads take the place of content which reduces readership more and to make up the lost readership revenue (as little as it is) the magazine ads even more ad content further reducing space for articles which further reduces readership which leads to yet more advertising space. Sooner or later the magazine becomes an ad magazine with a minuscule amount of actual article space. Before I stopped buying paper magazines I took a few apart and added up the amount of ad space and the amount of actual content. Even then I was quite surprised at how little actual article content there was and so I stopped buying magazines. I have no idea what modern magazines are like with regards to ad copy versus article content but I don't think it's any better than it was when I stopped buying magazines. Cheers I know little about magazines but in the newspaper business, which I assume is similar, it is income from advertisements that really counts. Which, of course, translates, to some extent, into circulation figures. One of my acquaintances was the publisher of a newspaper (before he died). He assured me that a huge portion of the revenue was from advertising. That included classified ads (which Craigslist and Ebay have all but killed). And there have been times I've stopped renewing a magazine subscription but still gotten issues mailed to me for months after. (That's happening right now with one magazine.) I think it's a way they can inflate their circulation counts when soliciting ads. Certainly one of the selling points that the marketing department uses is the circulation, i.e., how many will get to see your add. But my guess that the reason you get issues after the subscription runs out is more likely to be the louts in the mailing department not checking their list of active subscribers:-) -- cheers, John B. |
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On 11/5/2019 10:04 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 12:47:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: I'm not convinced that golf ever qualified as a "sport." Even bowling is more strenuous. I put golf in the same category as billiards. Neither one is a "sport." "sport /spĂ´rt/ noun: sport; plural noun: sports 1. an activity involving physical exertion and skill..." I should have used a different example :-) In fact, for whatever reason, there is considerable controversy over the question of whether or not golf is a sport. You do walk between 5 and 7 miles on most golf courses. Not around here you don't! You sit down in a golf cart. You walk maybe 30 feet before and after you swing or putt. Full disclosu I adamantly gave up golf in my 20s. I was so frustrated at shooting in the 40s, which I thought was terrible. Why? Because as a young guy, I spent a lot of time caddying for, then playing against my dad. It wasn't until years later that I realized 40s were considered OK. Then I thought about all the golf trophies he had around the house... (He broke par routinely.) But then (to use a" Tom" and change the subject) is bicycling a sport? It can be but it is hardly sporting to ride down to the corner store to get a loaf of bread. That's true. And one the wonderful things about cycling is its versatility. Not surprisingly, the "Danger! Danger!" crowd finds a way to use that against bicycling. There have been many articles that total the injuries from various "sports" like football, basketball, etc. and bicycling. They point out that bicycling's raw count of injuries is higher than almost all "other sports." Why is that so? Because the number of people and the amount of time spent bicycling tremendously exceeds those for (say) basketball. People ride for dozens of reasons, and only a tiny proportion of bicycling really is "sport," in the sense of competing against others. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 22:46:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 11/5/2019 9:23 PM, John B. wrote: On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 13:08:00 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: If I saw even one review that ended with “This product is a piece of crap and we’re not sure why anyone would buy it”, I would feel a lot better about the rest of the reviews. If you ever see that you can be assured that company does not advertise in that magazine :-) Although there is or was a publication that evaluates different things and rated them. Consumer Digest? Report? Anyway, they once tested a bunch of cheap .22 rifles and downgraded them because they were single shot. Which kind of put me off as at the time all cheap .22 rifles were single shot :-) Consumer Reports has some value, but it's "experts" can be clueless. Back in the 1970s they tested a bunch of then-fashionable "ten speed" bikes. They gave heavy credit to those that would roll the farthest on level ground after coasting down an incline, taking that as a measure of bike quality. They didn't notice that all those "winners" had the then-new 90 psi tires, and the "losers" had 70 psi tires. In fact, they might not have known that it's possible to change tires. I've always thought that it might because they are writing for their readers. After all no knowledgeable bicycle person selects a bike from what Consumer Reports said. I was reading them because some friends subscribed and gave us their copies after they had studied them but I certainly wouldn't have used their suggestions for buying a gun, for instance. Although I'm sure that our friends - a young very enthusiastic couple but with very little knowledge of anything - used them for everything that they bought. -- cheers, John B. |
#108
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 22:51:38 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 11/5/2019 9:13 PM, John B. wrote: On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 11:24:39 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote: John B. wrote: On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 03:34:07 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote: John B. wrote: On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:11:35 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote: (Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at high rpm.) This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates. Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the "transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be utilized by the machinery. The problem is solvable :-) Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/ The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/ the usual 18650 battery format technology. Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now. A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian company called "Elation". 250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business. ...... I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot pedal assist. Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same laws across tha nation, (a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think.. The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals. That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com". Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks. -- cheers, John B. In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle. Cheers Yes but we?re we?re talking more about road bikes I think. https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...bikes/?lang=en People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain their levels. That goes to show how unrealistic some people are. Put an electric motor on the bike and gee! I'm just as fast as I was when I was twenty... Why not put on a bigger motor and Lo! One would be even faster than they were at 20 :-) Or maybe an even larger motor and set records :-) -- cheers, John B. Who the **** said anything about being faster than when they were 20? No one, but someone did say, "People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain their levels. " And I guessed that the "levels" would be what they were when they were young and frisky, i.e., 20 years old , not what they were as they coasted past 70, sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything. -- cheers, John B. Their levels, to me meant last year’s levels before that surgery or whatever. Having had surgery and am still recovering I would hope my "level" does get better. Jeez I know a lot of people around 70 that are in better shape than that. You know a lot of people around 70...Five? Ten? Assuming that you are in the U.S. some 80% percent of the population doesn't even get minimum levels of exercise, to say nothing of developing stamina. If you work try telling all your co-workers that you "just did a 50 mile bicycle ride on Sunday" and watch their faces. Half of them won't believe you and the other half will recoil in amazement that anyone could ride a bicycle such a tendentiously long distance. Back when I was running I once mentioned, at work, that "I usually run 5 miles before breakfast four mornings a week" and people could hardly believe it. FIVE MILES! Ohhh, so long! When our kid was in a grade-school-level scout group, we took the troop on a bike ride. Seven miles! The parents were absolutely astounded! But I should make allowances. I still recall one of the longest rides I did with friends when I was a young teen, "all the way out" to some intersection in the country. It seemed epic, and we were totally beat when we made it back home. I had a chance to duplicate the ride a few years ago. It was less than ten miles. We had a 7 mile loop that we used to ride a few times each summer. There was one big hill, certainly a half mile, that you had to push up but other than that it was pretty much rideable. It was pretty much an all day trip and I remember being so tired when we'd get back to town and than I had a mile, of which probably a third was pushing up a hill, to get home. Of this was with "proper" bicycles. Schwinn type with double top tube (strong) , single speed with coaster brake :-) -- cheers, John B. |
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 6:13:41 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 11:24:39 -0000 (UTC), Duane snip Having had surgery and am still recovering I would hope my "level" does get better. I hope that your surgery was elective, minor and that you are having a speedy recovery. pH in Aptos snip |
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 23:03:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 11/5/2019 10:04 PM, John B. wrote: On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 12:47:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: I'm not convinced that golf ever qualified as a "sport." Even bowling is more strenuous. I put golf in the same category as billiards. Neither one is a "sport." "sport /spôrt/ noun: sport; plural noun: sports 1. an activity involving physical exertion and skill..." I should have used a different example :-) In fact, for whatever reason, there is considerable controversy over the question of whether or not golf is a sport. You do walk between 5 and 7 miles on most golf courses. Not around here you don't! You sit down in a golf cart. You walk maybe 30 feet before and after you swing or putt. I'd forgotten that there were golf carts. I never played a course that had them. I took up golf in about 1973 or 4 and played until perhaps 1985, or so. Full disclosu I adamantly gave up golf in my 20s. I was so frustrated at shooting in the 40s, which I thought was terrible. Why? Because as a young guy, I spent a lot of time caddying for, then playing against my dad. It wasn't until years later that I realized 40s were considered OK. Then I thought about all the golf trophies he had around the house... (He broke par routinely.) But then (to use a" Tom" and change the subject) is bicycling a sport? It can be but it is hardly sporting to ride down to the corner store to get a loaf of bread. That's true. And one the wonderful things about cycling is its versatility. Not surprisingly, the "Danger! Danger!" crowd finds a way to use that against bicycling. There have been many articles that total the injuries from various "sports" like football, basketball, etc. and bicycling. They point out that bicycling's raw count of injuries is higher than almost all "other sports." But, as I have recounted innumerable times, the bicyclist is at fault in many of the cases and in the case of single vehicle accidents, nearly always at fault. My guess is that if, somehow, cyclists could be convinced to ride in accordance with the highway code and use simple common sense that injuries would be in the negligible category. As an aside, have you ever noticed that the safety harpies never make positive statements. Never "a helmet will save your life", but "a helmet may prevent...", or "bright flashing lights may...", and so on. Why is that so? Because the number of people and the amount of time spent bicycling tremendously exceeds those for (say) basketball. People ride for dozens of reasons, and only a tiny proportion of bicycling really is "sport," in the sense of competing against others. -- cheers, John B. |
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