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  #1  
Old September 9th 17, 11:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Road Discs

So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.







  #2  
Old September 10th 17, 01:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 2,041
Default Road Discs

I have no experience with disc brakes. None. If building my new dream bike, it would be rim brake. I know rim brakes. Rim brakes are easy to work on. I'm not against learning new things, like disc brakes. But don't see the need. They are not as simple to work on or understand as rim brakes. In all my riding, I've always been able to stop just fine with rim brakes. Loaded touring bike down the Alps, Dolomites, Rockys. Never a problem. Never over heated a rim or burnt up brake pads. I've also ridden in rain and stopped just fine too. Maybe in emergency situations in the rain, the performance improvement of disc would matter. Maybe. But I don't ride crazy and ever need to stop instantly. And disc brakes still need time, distance to stop just like rim brakes. Maybe less distance but I don't see that ever really mattering to me. So my dream bike of the future would have rim brakes.
  #4  
Old September 10th 17, 01:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
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Posts: 1,546
Default Road Discs

jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my
Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've
done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel
bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport
riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike
that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be
available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in
dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix
and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask
because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last
nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry
weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would
be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm
not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue
because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but
to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of
the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.









Well my 2 cents - you say you won't be riding it in any of the conditions
that seem to be indicative for disc brakes. So, in my opinion waiting
until December makes no sense. I'd go for the bike I can get now.

Who the f*ck you calling a curmudgeon? :-).

--
duane
  #5  
Old September 10th 17, 06:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Road Discs

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 15:28:55 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.


Firstly it is not an "Antique". It is a "Classic".
(ask Andrew I believe he drives one :-)

Secondly buy whatever YOU want.
(one assumes you married the one YOU wanted and from your posts that
seems to have worked out pretty well :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #6  
Old September 10th 17, 12:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ned Mantei[_2_]
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Posts: 81
Default Road Discs

On 10-09-17 00:28, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.


I have bikes with rim brakes and one with disc brakes. My experience:

1) With rim brakes obviously the rims will wear out after some years. I
spoke new rims to the old hub and spokes. Since I have very little
practice doing this, it takes me maybe 4 hours to get the spokes
transferred, the wheel reasonably centered and round, and the spokes
evenly tensioned.

2) I bought a mountain bike with disc brakes last October. The first
change of brake pads came in April, and a few days ago I had to install
a new disc on the back wheel (the original disc was worn to the safe
limit). Both things are a lot quicker than spoking a rim, but at least
here in Switzerland rather expensive.

3) With rim brakes I would have pain in my hands from braking during a
long descent in the mountains. Much less or no problem with disc brakes,
which require less pressure. But I'm old, and a younger person probably
wouldn't notice this.

4) Again as an issue on very long descents, I no longer worry about a
tube failure because the rim overheated (happened to me once many years
ago, https://flic.kr/p/9XmmWn ). Disc brakes can also overheat, and then
fade, but this hasn't been a problem for me.

Overall I prefer the disc brakes, but should note that I have no
experience with road bikes.

Ned
  #7  
Old September 10th 17, 04:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,345
Default Road Discs

On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 4:24:13 AM UTC-7, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 10-09-17 00:28, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.


I have bikes with rim brakes and one with disc brakes. My experience:

1) With rim brakes obviously the rims will wear out after some years. I
spoke new rims to the old hub and spokes. Since I have very little
practice doing this, it takes me maybe 4 hours to get the spokes
transferred, the wheel reasonably centered and round, and the spokes
evenly tensioned.

2) I bought a mountain bike with disc brakes last October. The first
change of brake pads came in April, and a few days ago I had to install
a new disc on the back wheel (the original disc was worn to the safe
limit). Both things are a lot quicker than spoking a rim, but at least
here in Switzerland rather expensive.

3) With rim brakes I would have pain in my hands from braking during a
long descent in the mountains. Much less or no problem with disc brakes,
which require less pressure. But I'm old, and a younger person probably
wouldn't notice this.

4) Again as an issue on very long descents, I no longer worry about a
tube failure because the rim overheated (happened to me once many years
ago, https://flic.kr/p/9XmmWn ). Disc brakes can also overheat, and then
fade, but this hasn't been a problem for me.

Overall I prefer the disc brakes, but should note that I have no
experience with road bikes.


Ned, my experience is that the so-called advantages of disk brakes are their downfall.

1. Where you need the brakes the most - descents particularly on twisting roads or sharp turns and the like - you have your hands on the brakes. Disks are so powerful that if you hit a bump you are very likely to pull on the brakes while trying to keep yourself from being thrown off of the bike. This pulls the brake on and with all it's power can stop the front wheel completely rotating the entire bike around the front wheel. Voice of experience.

2. Because the whole idea is power the leverage has to be effectively very high. This means the distance of motion must be very low since the lever has limited motion due to your hand size. So brake pads are VERY thin and because they are small they wear very rapidly.

3. Yes it's easier to replace a disk than a rim. In 40 years of riding I've had to replace one rim from brake pad wear. Since I built many wheels it took me a half hour from start to finish. But of course I do have a wheel stand and spoke tools. Now in Switzerland you may have a hell of a lot more sharp and dangerous descents than we do around here but in the last five years on just ONE altimeter that I used on only some of my bikes I do have 57,000 feet of climbing shown. I have worn some brake shoes to the extent that I replaced them. But only on super-light alloy wheels have I ever shown extensive wear. And I find buying new wheels generally cheaper than buying a new rim. I just bought two sets of Campy Scirocco CX's (stronger than the road version) for $240 per set. These are cheap wheels but I am getting tired of spokes breaking on the lighter road wheels.
  #8  
Old September 11th 17, 10:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 824
Default Road Discs

On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 5:31:04 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 4:24:13 AM UTC-7, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 10-09-17 00:28, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.


I have bikes with rim brakes and one with disc brakes. My experience:

1) With rim brakes obviously the rims will wear out after some years. I
spoke new rims to the old hub and spokes. Since I have very little
practice doing this, it takes me maybe 4 hours to get the spokes
transferred, the wheel reasonably centered and round, and the spokes
evenly tensioned.

2) I bought a mountain bike with disc brakes last October. The first
change of brake pads came in April, and a few days ago I had to install
a new disc on the back wheel (the original disc was worn to the safe
limit). Both things are a lot quicker than spoking a rim, but at least
here in Switzerland rather expensive.

3) With rim brakes I would have pain in my hands from braking during a
long descent in the mountains. Much less or no problem with disc brakes,
which require less pressure. But I'm old, and a younger person probably
wouldn't notice this.

4) Again as an issue on very long descents, I no longer worry about a
tube failure because the rim overheated (happened to me once many years
ago, https://flic.kr/p/9XmmWn ). Disc brakes can also overheat, and then
fade, but this hasn't been a problem for me.

Overall I prefer the disc brakes, but should note that I have no
experience with road bikes.


Ned, my experience is that the so-called advantages of disk brakes are their downfall.

1. Where you need the brakes the most - descents particularly on twisting roads or sharp turns and the like - you have your hands on the brakes. Disks are so powerful that if you hit a bump you are very likely to pull on the brakes while trying to keep yourself from being thrown off of the bike. This pulls the brake on and with all it's power can stop the front wheel completely rotating the entire bike around the front wheel. Voice of experience.



Tom you are the only one I know that have this problem. Descending a twisty steep road you are in the drops with a finger on the lever. Bumps give a vertical motion, braking need a horizontal motions.

On my cross bike off road I am on the hoods all the time and even then I have no problems with bumps, drops or whatever.

Either you have ****ty brakes, poor technique or bumps we don't have here, even off road.

Lou
  #9  
Old September 11th 17, 04:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,345
Default Road Discs

On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 2:20:53 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 5:31:04 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 4:24:13 AM UTC-7, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 10-09-17 00:28, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.


I have bikes with rim brakes and one with disc brakes. My experience:

1) With rim brakes obviously the rims will wear out after some years. I
spoke new rims to the old hub and spokes. Since I have very little
practice doing this, it takes me maybe 4 hours to get the spokes
transferred, the wheel reasonably centered and round, and the spokes
evenly tensioned.

2) I bought a mountain bike with disc brakes last October. The first
change of brake pads came in April, and a few days ago I had to install
a new disc on the back wheel (the original disc was worn to the safe
limit). Both things are a lot quicker than spoking a rim, but at least
here in Switzerland rather expensive.

3) With rim brakes I would have pain in my hands from braking during a
long descent in the mountains. Much less or no problem with disc brakes,
which require less pressure. But I'm old, and a younger person probably
wouldn't notice this.

4) Again as an issue on very long descents, I no longer worry about a
tube failure because the rim overheated (happened to me once many years
ago, https://flic.kr/p/9XmmWn ). Disc brakes can also overheat, and then
fade, but this hasn't been a problem for me.

Overall I prefer the disc brakes, but should note that I have no
experience with road bikes.


Ned, my experience is that the so-called advantages of disk brakes are their downfall.

1. Where you need the brakes the most - descents particularly on twisting roads or sharp turns and the like - you have your hands on the brakes. Disks are so powerful that if you hit a bump you are very likely to pull on the brakes while trying to keep yourself from being thrown off of the bike. This pulls the brake on and with all it's power can stop the front wheel completely rotating the entire bike around the front wheel. Voice of experience.



Tom you are the only one I know that have this problem. Descending a twisty steep road you are in the drops with a finger on the lever. Bumps give a vertical motion, braking need a horizontal motions.

On my cross bike off road I am on the hoods all the time and even then I have no problems with bumps, drops or whatever.

Either you have ****ty brakes, poor technique or bumps we don't have here, even off road.


Lou, I haven't any idea at all how you ride. Telling me I don't know how to ride is pretty silly when apparently you ride a cruiser around on flat roads on a campus or some such where you never see real bumps.

One finger on the brakes indeed! Apparently you ride down hills at 40+ mph with your hands off of the bars.
  #10  
Old September 11th 17, 08:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 824
Default Road Discs

On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:13:00 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 2:20:53 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 5:31:04 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 4:24:13 AM UTC-7, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 10-09-17 00:28, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.


I have bikes with rim brakes and one with disc brakes. My experience:

1) With rim brakes obviously the rims will wear out after some years. I
spoke new rims to the old hub and spokes. Since I have very little
practice doing this, it takes me maybe 4 hours to get the spokes
transferred, the wheel reasonably centered and round, and the spokes
evenly tensioned.

2) I bought a mountain bike with disc brakes last October. The first
change of brake pads came in April, and a few days ago I had to install
a new disc on the back wheel (the original disc was worn to the safe
limit). Both things are a lot quicker than spoking a rim, but at least
here in Switzerland rather expensive.

3) With rim brakes I would have pain in my hands from braking during a
long descent in the mountains. Much less or no problem with disc brakes,
which require less pressure. But I'm old, and a younger person probably
wouldn't notice this.

4) Again as an issue on very long descents, I no longer worry about a
tube failure because the rim overheated (happened to me once many years
ago, https://flic.kr/p/9XmmWn ). Disc brakes can also overheat, and then
fade, but this hasn't been a problem for me.

Overall I prefer the disc brakes, but should note that I have no
experience with road bikes.

Ned, my experience is that the so-called advantages of disk brakes are their downfall.

1. Where you need the brakes the most - descents particularly on twisting roads or sharp turns and the like - you have your hands on the brakes. Disks are so powerful that if you hit a bump you are very likely to pull on the brakes while trying to keep yourself from being thrown off of the bike. This pulls the brake on and with all it's power can stop the front wheel completely rotating the entire bike around the front wheel. Voice of experience.



Tom you are the only one I know that have this problem. Descending a twisty steep road you are in the drops with a finger on the lever. Bumps give a vertical motion, braking need a horizontal motions.

On my cross bike off road I am on the hoods all the time and even then I have no problems with bumps, drops or whatever.

Either you have ****ty brakes, poor technique or bumps we don't have here, even off road.


Lou, I haven't any idea at all how you ride. Telling me I don't know how to ride is pretty silly when apparently you ride a cruiser around on flat roads on a campus or some such where you never see real bumps.

One finger on the brakes indeed! Apparently you ride down hills at 40+ mph with your hands off of the bars.


Tom, I'm not telling you that you don't know how to ride and poor technique wasn't my first option why you warn people that riding over a bump can lock your front wheel with (too) powerful disk brakes. That makes me more curious.

Tom I ride a cross bike with disk brakes off road, it doesn't get bumpier that that even here in pancake flat Netherlands.

We don't have any mountains that is true but I live in the hilly part of the Netherlands, Joerg is always talking about and close to Belgium where they have the worst roads. However the real famous mountains are only one day drive away. One or two times a year I spend a week there and that for almost 30 years so I did my share of climbing and descending.

He, look even without any finger on the brakes:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ztXTQaSqdl7RRs8B3

Even on the descent of the Stelvio I and many others don't need more than two fingers on the brake lever (rimbrakes):

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6yb8NpaAhgHp9s2w2

So why you replaced your disk brakes with V brakes remains a mystery to me.

Lou
 




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