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#31
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dimensions of wheels derailleurs chainwheels ...where?
I already know what and how I want to make it, now all I want is use standard parts as much as possible. With that I start drawing to see if it fits and if my gears will be OK I have to gamble here because I don't know how much work I can do -rowing. Mind it is hands only but 2 way, push and pull. Uh-oh!! This is going to ruin your rowing stroke. It not only has to be pull only, but the motion described by your hands has to be to pull straight towards you, lift your hands a few inches, move them straight away from you, then drop them a few inches. Over a table - under the table - over the table - under the table. Otherwise next time you get in a boat, you'll suck, and have to re-train your hands. ...personally I go for something I can actually use on the streets while still aiming to make it as efficient as possible within the limits dictated by the practicality/usability. Forget about pushing, then, and get a rest on the recovery instead. |
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#32
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dimensions of wheels derailleurs chainwheels ...where?
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Edmund
wrote: On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 11:47:12 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/27/2015 5:19 AM, Edmund wrote: On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 16:44:21 -0800, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 7:25:28 PM UTC-5, Edmund wrote: On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 21:29:27 +0000, Tosspot wrote: Snipped But that assumes a typical 1/8th pitch. A 3/32 pitch saves another 4% on rolling resistance from the drive chain only. Do you have a source for that? I don't see why a larger pitch should have better efficiency and 4 % is quite a lot. Edmund Tossport used the wrong terminology. There is NO difference in PITCH between a 1/8" chain (4/32") and a 3/32" chain. What is different, as A. muzi pointed out, is the width which is what the 1/8" and 3/32" indicates. Cheers Thanks for that and my bad, 3/32 isn't bigger but smaller then 1/8 (4/32") IF that was the pitch that would theoretically have a better efficiency. The big question is : does a 3/32 chain have better efficiency In Real Life and what about durability and "standard" does it require special tooth wheels? $$$$$$$$ Then it is no option and certainly not for my first attempt to make a handbike. Someone once said "A month in the lab can sometimes save up to an hour in the library." Or something like that. It's not always true, of course. (I still think you need to buy a used bike and a set of calipers and just measure what you're curious about.) But you really should hit the library and read _Bicycling Science_ by Wilson. It contains a lot of fundamental background knowledge that you will need, assuming you continue this project. I don't like to be hindered by any kind of knowledge of the subject :-) Edmund Hopefully your "day job" isn't designing bridges or airplanes :-) -- cheers, John B. |
#33
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dimensions of wheels derailleurs chainwheels ...where?
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:19:49 -0800, Doug Landau wrote:
I already know what and how I want to make it, now all I want is use standard parts as much as possible. With that I start drawing to see if it fits and if my gears will be OK I have to gamble here because I don't know how much work I can do -rowing. Mind it is hands only but 2 way, push and pull. Uh-oh!! This is going to ruin your rowing stroke. It not only has to be pull only, but the motion described by your hands has to be to pull straight towards you, lift your hands a few inches, move them straight away from you, then drop them a few inches. Over a table - under the table - over the table - under the table. Otherwise next time you get in a boat, you'll suck, and have to re-train your hands. I don't go in a boat while rowing is done with mostly with ones legs, my knee is damaged therefore I want to use/train my arms back and abdomen. ...personally I go for something I can actually use on the streets while still aiming to make it as efficient as possible within the limits dictated by the practicality/usability. Forget about pushing, then, and get a rest on the recovery instead. Nope Edmund |
#34
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dimensions of wheels derailleurs chainwheels ...where?
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 10:15:46 -0000 (UTC), Edmund
wrote: On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:19:49 -0800, Doug Landau wrote: I already know what and how I want to make it, now all I want is use standard parts as much as possible. With that I start drawing to see if it fits and if my gears will be OK I have to gamble here because I don't know how much work I can do -rowing. Mind it is hands only but 2 way, push and pull. Uh-oh!! This is going to ruin your rowing stroke. It not only has to be pull only, but the motion described by your hands has to be to pull straight towards you, lift your hands a few inches, move them straight away from you, then drop them a few inches. Over a table - under the table - over the table - under the table. Otherwise next time you get in a boat, you'll suck, and have to re-train your hands. I don't go in a boat while rowing is done with mostly with ones legs, my knee is damaged therefore I want to use/train my arms back and abdomen. I think you will find that rowing with the legs is primarily a part of racing where the boat is fitted with a sliding seat, or an exercise machine. Granted that the time a workman rowed a boat is probably long past, but I can tell you that rowing, say an 18 ft. dory, was not done with the legs :-) ...personally I go for something I can actually use on the streets while still aiming to make it as efficient as possible within the limits dictated by the practicality/usability. Forget about pushing, then, and get a rest on the recovery instead. Nope Edmund -- cheers, John B. |
#35
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dimensions of wheels derailleurs chainwheels ...where?
On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 3:11:28 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 10:15:46 -0000 (UTC), Edmund wrote: On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:19:49 -0800, Doug Landau wrote: I already know what and how I want to make it, now all I want is use standard parts as much as possible. With that I start drawing to see if it fits and if my gears will be OK I have to gamble here because I don't know how much work I can do -rowing. Mind it is hands only but 2 way, push and pull. Uh-oh!! This is going to ruin your rowing stroke. It not only has to be pull only, but the motion described by your hands has to be to pull straight towards you, lift your hands a few inches, move them straight away from you, then drop them a few inches. Over a table - under the table - over the table - under the table. Otherwise next time you get in a boat, you'll suck, and have to re-train your hands. I don't go in a boat while rowing is done with mostly with ones legs, my knee is damaged therefore I want to use/train my arms back and abdomen. I think you will find that rowing with the legs is primarily a part of racing where the boat is fitted with a sliding seat, or an exercise machine. Granted that the time a workman rowed a boat is probably long past, but I can tell you that rowing, say an 18 ft. dory, was not done with the legs :-) The deal with those rowing bikes is that some "recreate" a slide. It's not all upper body. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmHZGGMfHtg Nice idea to work the whole body, but not very practical in a hilly area. Different implementation -- no slide and all upper body: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOIp2P0UYTo Nice wobble! -- Jay Beattie. |
#36
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dimensions of wheels derailleurs chainwheels ...where?
On 12/29/2015 8:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 3:11:28 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote: On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 10:15:46 -0000 (UTC), Edmund wrote: On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:19:49 -0800, Doug Landau wrote: I already know what and how I want to make it, now all I want is use standard parts as much as possible. With that I start drawing to see if it fits and if my gears will be OK I have to gamble here because I don't know how much work I can do -rowing. Mind it is hands only but 2 way, push and pull. Uh-oh!! This is going to ruin your rowing stroke. It not only has to be pull only, but the motion described by your hands has to be to pull straight towards you, lift your hands a few inches, move them straight away from you, then drop them a few inches. Over a table - under the table - over the table - under the table. Otherwise next time you get in a boat, you'll suck, and have to re-train your hands. I don't go in a boat while rowing is done with mostly with ones legs, my knee is damaged therefore I want to use/train my arms back and abdomen. I think you will find that rowing with the legs is primarily a part of racing where the boat is fitted with a sliding seat, or an exercise machine. Granted that the time a workman rowed a boat is probably long past, but I can tell you that rowing, say an 18 ft. dory, was not done with the legs :-) The deal with those rowing bikes is that some "recreate" a slide. It's not all upper body. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmHZGGMfHtg Nice idea to work the whole body, but not very practical in a hilly area. Different implementation -- no slide and all upper body: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOIp2P0UYTo Nice wobble! I tried a two wheel rowing bike for maybe a flat quarter mile this past spring. Very, very tricky! I hadn't felt so clumsy on two wheels since I first learned to ride. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#37
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dimensions of wheels derailleurs chainwheels ...where?
I think you will find that rowing with the legs is primarily a part of racing where the boat is fitted with a sliding seat, or an exercise machine. Granted that the time a workman rowed a boat is probably long past, but I can tell you that rowing, say an 18 ft. dory, was not done with the legs :-) But greek warships were, and that let them row circles around the Phoenicians, and defeat them. |
#38
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dimensions of wheels derailleurs chainwheels ...where?
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 22:25:55 -0800 (PST), Doug Landau
wrote: I think you will find that rowing with the legs is primarily a part of racing where the boat is fitted with a sliding seat, or an exercise machine. Granted that the time a workman rowed a boat is probably long past, but I can tell you that rowing, say an 18 ft. dory, was not done with the legs :-) But greek warships were, and that let them row circles around the Phoenicians, and defeat them. They were? A trireme with sliding seats? But I believe you are referring to the Greek-Persian war, the battle of Salamis where the Greeks lured the Persian fleet into a narrow strait at the eastern end of the island of Salamis where the Greeks won an overwhelming victory. Contemporary writers,Herodotus for one, seem to have believed that the Greek ships were slower then the Persians and the battle was won by superior planning. -- cheers, John B. |
#39
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dimensions of wheels derailleurs chainwheels ...where?
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 17:03:57 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote: On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 3:11:28 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote: On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 10:15:46 -0000 (UTC), Edmund wrote: On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:19:49 -0800, Doug Landau wrote: I already know what and how I want to make it, now all I want is use standard parts as much as possible. With that I start drawing to see if it fits and if my gears will be OK I have to gamble here because I don't know how much work I can do -rowing. Mind it is hands only but 2 way, push and pull. Uh-oh!! This is going to ruin your rowing stroke. It not only has to be pull only, but the motion described by your hands has to be to pull straight towards you, lift your hands a few inches, move them straight away from you, then drop them a few inches. Over a table - under the table - over the table - under the table. Otherwise next time you get in a boat, you'll suck, and have to re-train your hands. I don't go in a boat while rowing is done with mostly with ones legs, my knee is damaged therefore I want to use/train my arms back and abdomen. I think you will find that rowing with the legs is primarily a part of racing where the boat is fitted with a sliding seat, or an exercise machine. Granted that the time a workman rowed a boat is probably long past, but I can tell you that rowing, say an 18 ft. dory, was not done with the legs :-) The deal with those rowing bikes is that some "recreate" a slide. It's not all upper body. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmHZGGMfHtg Nice idea to work the whole body, but not very practical in a hilly area. Different implementation -- no slide and all upper body: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOIp2P0UYTo Nice wobble! -- Jay Beattie. There seems to be several versions. In one reference I see people riding bikes with fixed seats and (apparently) some sort of pedal arrangement to allow both the arms and legs to be used. In another I see some row-bikes that obviously lack this feature and seem to be powered only by the rider's arms and lastly I also see some with sliding seats which seem to be "rowed" exactly the same as a racing shell. -- cheers, John B. |
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