Steel is real - again

On 04/01/16 11:51, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 08:26:30 +0000, Tosspot
wrote:

On 04/01/16 01:07, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jan 2016 20:15:20 GMT, Ralph Barone
wrote:

A new process for heat treating steel produces a product with a higher
strength to weight ratio than aluminum or titanium. As an added bonus, it
can be welded without any need for post-welding heat treating.

www.flashbainite.com

Discuss...

"Bainite", which is a description of the structure of steel, was
discovered in 1920 and, if what I read is correct, results in a steel
that is 7% stronger.

1920! Sewerly we'd be using it by now.


Well, you can look it up for yourself, but from what I read it was
first described by E. S. Davenport and Edgar Bain in the early 1920's.
Who, I believe, both worked for U.S. Steel. Bain died nearly 20 years
ago.

"in the 1920s Davenport and Bain discovered a new steel microstructure
which they provisionally called martensite-troostite, due to it being
intermediate between the already known low-temperature martensite
phase and what was then known as troostite (now fine-pearlite). This
microstructure was subsequently named bainite by Bain's colleagues at
the United States Steel Corporation although it took some time for the
name to be taken up by the scientific community with books as late as
1947 failing to mention bainite by name."

Ah, so the steel was identified some time ago, but we have a new process
to make it.

Flash-Bainite filed the patent in 2004 and make a big thing of it being
a process rather than a new material.

Anyhow, as a fan of steel frames, lugged obviously, I think this is a
good thing[TM] :-)

On 1/4/2016 3:26 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 04/01/16 01:07, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jan 2016 20:15:20 GMT, Ralph Barone
wrote:

A new process for heat treating steel produces a product with a higher
strength to weight ratio than aluminum or titanium. As an added
bonus, it
can be welded without any need for post-welding heat treating.

www.flashbainite.com

Discuss...

"Bainite", which is a description of the structure of steel, was
discovered in 1920 and, if what I read is correct, results in a steel
that is 7% stronger.

1920! Sewerly we'd be using it by now.

IIRC, it's not easy to get it to form via heat treating. "Martempering"
may be one scheme, but it's a heat treating process that requires much
more time than a standard quench & temper, and is limited to thin
sheets. The nice thing about this "flash" process is that it's fast.

All that's by dim memory, BTW. I don't have time to look it up now.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, January 3, 2016 at 3:15:23 PM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:
A new process for heat treating steel produces a product with a higher
strength to weight ratio than aluminum or titanium. As an added bonus, it
can be welded without any need for post-welding heat treating.

www.flashbainite.com

Discuss...

Rutherford...


http://www.greatachievements.org/?id=3805

On 1/3/2016 7:07 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jan 2016 20:15:20 GMT, Ralph Barone
wrote:

A new process for heat treating steel produces a product with a higher
strength to weight ratio than aluminum or titanium. As an added bonus, it
can be welded without any need for post-welding heat treating.

www.flashbainite.com

Discuss...

"Bainite", which is a description of the structure of steel, was
discovered in 1920 and, if what I read is correct, results in a steel
that is 7% stronger.
--
cheers,

John B.


I am not a metallurgist but my understanding is that since
1920 (and especially in the past 20 years) we have enjoyed
large improvements in steel uniformity which is what allows
the steels we use now for bicycles (among other useful
things); more rigor than magic.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/4/2016 6:18 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/4/2016 3:26 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 04/01/16 01:07, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jan 2016 20:15:20 GMT, Ralph Barone
wrote:

A new process for heat treating steel produces a product
with a higher
strength to weight ratio than aluminum or titanium. As
an added
bonus, it
can be welded without any need for post-welding heat
treating.

www.flashbainite.com

Discuss...

"Bainite", which is a description of the structure of
steel, was
discovered in 1920 and, if what I read is correct,
results in a steel
that is 7% stronger.

1920! Sewerly we'd be using it by now.

IIRC, it's not easy to get it to form via heat treating.
"Martempering" may be one scheme, but it's a heat treating
process that requires much more time than a standard quench
& temper, and is limited to thin sheets. The nice thing
about this "flash" process is that it's fast.

All that's by dim memory, BTW. I don't have time to look it
up now.



In the world of fast cars, cryogenic tempering is now
readily available for cams and cranks etc. May be a possible
path for other steel items like frame tubes.

http://finishedracing.com/cryo_pricing.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi wrote:
:On 1/3/2016 7:07 PM, John B. wrote:
: On Sun, 03 Jan 2016 20:15:20 GMT, Ralph Barone
: wrote:
:
: A new process for heat treating steel produces a product with a higher
: strength to weight ratio than aluminum or titanium. As an added bonus, it
: can be welded without any need for post-welding heat treating.
:
: www.flashbainite.com
:
: Discuss...
:
: "Bainite", which is a description of the structure of steel, was
: discovered in 1920 and, if what I read is correct, results in a steel
: that is 7% stronger.
: --
: cheers,
:
: John B.
:

:I am not a metallurgist but my understanding is that since
:1920 (and especially in the past 20 years) we have enjoyed
:large improvements in steel uniformity which is what allows
:the steels we use now for bicycles (among other useful
:things); more rigor than magic.

There have been vast improvements in both the ability to make bulk
material the way it's desired, and then make uniform small section
pieces out of it.



--
sig 108

On 1/4/2016 7:18 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/4/2016 3:26 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 04/01/16 01:07, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jan 2016 20:15:20 GMT, Ralph Barone
wrote:

A new process for heat treating steel produces a product with a higher
strength to weight ratio than aluminum or titanium. As an added
bonus, it
can be welded without any need for post-welding heat treating.

www.flashbainite.com

Discuss...

"Bainite", which is a description of the structure of steel, was
discovered in 1920 and, if what I read is correct, results in a steel
that is 7% stronger.

1920! Sewerly we'd be using it by now.

IIRC, it's not easy to get it to form via heat treating. "Martempering"
may be one scheme, but it's a heat treating process that requires much
more time than a standard quench & temper, and is limited to thin
sheets. The nice thing about this "flash" process is that it's fast.

All that's by dim memory, BTW. I don't have time to look it up now.

OK, that should be "austempering" not "martempering." Martempering is
something else.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 04 Jan 2016 07:51:07 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 1/3/2016 7:07 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jan 2016 20:15:20 GMT, Ralph Barone
wrote:

A new process for heat treating steel produces a product with a higher
strength to weight ratio than aluminum or titanium. As an added bonus, it
can be welded without any need for post-welding heat treating.

www.flashbainite.com

Discuss...

"Bainite", which is a description of the structure of steel, was
discovered in 1920 and, if what I read is correct, results in a steel
that is 7% stronger.
--
cheers,

John B.


I am not a metallurgist but my understanding is that since
1920 (and especially in the past 20 years) we have enjoyed
large improvements in steel uniformity which is what allows
the steels we use now for bicycles (among other useful
things); more rigor than magic.

Bainite is a description of the structure of a steel which is sort of
part way between austenite and martensite.

If you think of a fully annealed steel, which is ductile, as austenite
and a fully hardened steel, which is brittle, as martensite somewhere
in the middle would be Bainite.

(Not a complete description by any means :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 12:15:46 +0000, Tosspot
wrote:

On 04/01/16 11:51, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 08:26:30 +0000, Tosspot
wrote:

On 04/01/16 01:07, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jan 2016 20:15:20 GMT, Ralph Barone
wrote:

A new process for heat treating steel produces a product with a higher
strength to weight ratio than aluminum or titanium. As an added bonus, it
can be welded without any need for post-welding heat treating.

www.flashbainite.com

Discuss...

"Bainite", which is a description of the structure of steel, was
discovered in 1920 and, if what I read is correct, results in a steel
that is 7% stronger.

1920! Sewerly we'd be using it by now.


Well, you can look it up for yourself, but from what I read it was
first described by E. S. Davenport and Edgar Bain in the early 1920's.
Who, I believe, both worked for U.S. Steel. Bain died nearly 20 years
ago.

"in the 1920s Davenport and Bain discovered a new steel microstructure
which they provisionally called martensite-troostite, due to it being
intermediate between the already known low-temperature martensite
phase and what was then known as troostite (now fine-pearlite). This
microstructure was subsequently named bainite by Bain's colleagues at
the United States Steel Corporation although it took some time for the
name to be taken up by the scientific community with books as late as
1947 failing to mention bainite by name."

Ah, so the steel was identified some time ago, but we have a new process
to make it.

Flash-Bainite filed the patent in 2004 and make a big thing of it being
a process rather than a new material.

Anyhow, as a fan of steel frames, lugged obviously, I think this is a
good thing[TM] :-)

One thing though. The Bainite process seems to depend on temperatures
of about 250 - 550 (Celsius) or 400 - 1022 (Fahrenheit) while brazing
requires temperatures are in the 1500 - 2000 (Fahrenheit) range. The
effects of a heat treatment at a lower temperature will be negated by
the higher brazing temperatures.
--
cheers,

John B.