Project Fuji S12

Well, I go the Fuji I was talking about. It started raining here, and I rode to work once in it, without a fender, and got soaked and a black roadgrime stripe up my a$$ and up my still-decent-looking backpack... needed fenders, bad.

www.douglandau.net/images/fuji

The bike trips me out. Because AFAICT, it is _almost_ the bike that the much-celebrated Miyata 1000 and Specialized Expedition are, and well before them, and yet wasn't even touted as a full-blown tourer. But it has the triple and the barcons.

It was not quite as $$$-saving as I had hoped, as the owner wanted 400 for it, and I gave him 350, and spent 50 on gas to get it. After spending more on new rubber, wheel bearings, fenders, a rack, chain, etc, it will have cost over half of what a new Raleigh Sojourn does. But it still comes in at 1/2 the price, and I had fun watching for and finding it. Besides I wouldn't want the disc brake that comes on the Raleigh, nor for that matter the index shifting. Any rear wheel will work in the Fuji.

My previous one of these, which was stolen, was much less painful to get into, at $80. But that one was also older, and had a double, and was heavier, being made of Hi-Ten or VaLite, I forget, whereas by the time this one was made they had switched to double-butted CrMo. The difference is noticeable - this one is not such a tank.

I was recently wondering about the difference between this model and the America, and concluded that it was frame material. Now I also wonder if maybe the America had more braze-ons. This bike has no seat tube water bottle mounts, no rack mounts on the seatstays, and only one eyelet per side per end, so nowhere left for a rack after attaching the fenders. I wonder if lots and lots of braze-ons significantly increases the time required to build the frame...

My LBS was unable to find the sealed bearings for the front wheel. And I wanted to start using it. So I went to Good Karma bikes in San Jose which has an impressive collection of used bikes and parts, and bought the wheels that are on the bike for $40/ea., new. Origin8 sealed bearing hubs on 27x1" rims, straight gauge spokes, never used. Another $80 I didn't intend to spend but whatever. At least they are good looking whereas the spokes on the original wheels look like crap.

Furthermore it has these ridiculous narrow bars, 37.5 cm. Fortunately I have a 3TTT quill-stem-and-42cm-double-grooved-bars combo in primo condition leftover from the late 90's, the very thing required.

Also despite having only ever been ridden a few times to the store and back, and having been under the original owner's house all its life, there were rust spots on the seatstays. My local hobby shop having closed last month I had to drive 25 mi. across the valley (should have ridden) to find a can of burgundy model paint, ... and it was the wrong burgundy... but again, .... whatever. I like the bike.

It got me 18 miles to work this morning with no problems. Going to leave now and see if it'll get me home.

dkl

On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 20:22:47 -0800 (PST), Doug Landau
wrote:


Well, I go the Fuji I was talking about. It started raining here, and I rode to work once in it, without a fender, and got soaked and a black roadgrime stripe up my a$$ and up my still-decent-looking backpack... needed fenders, bad.

www.douglandau.net/images/fuji

The bike trips me out. Because AFAICT, it is _almost_ the bike that the much-celebrated Miyata 1000 and Specialized Expedition are, and well before them, and yet wasn't even touted as a full-blown tourer. But it has the triple and the barcons.

It was not quite as $$$-saving as I had hoped, as the owner wanted 400 for it, and I gave him 350, and spent 50 on gas to get it. After spending more on new rubber, wheel bearings, fenders, a rack, chain, etc, it will have cost over half of what a new Raleigh Sojourn does. But it still comes in at 1/2 the price, and I had fun watching for and finding it. Besides I wouldn't want the disc brake that comes on the Raleigh, nor for that matter the index shifting. Any rear wheel will work in the Fuji.

My previous one of these, which was stolen, was much less painful to get into, at $80. But that one was also older, and had a double, and was heavier, being made of Hi-Ten or VaLite, I forget, whereas by the time this one was made they had switched to double-butted CrMo. The difference is noticeable - this one is not such a tank.

I was recently wondering about the difference between this model and the America, and concluded that it was frame material. Now I also wonder if maybe the America had more braze-ons. This bike has no seat tube water bottle mounts, no rack mounts on the seatstays, and only one eyelet per side per end, so nowhere left for a rack after attaching the fenders. I wonder if lots and lots of braze-ons significantly increases the time required to build the frame...

Adding braze-ons is primarily a matter of getting them in the right
place. If you have fixtures to align and hold them it takes minutes
per braze-on to actually braze them on.

My LBS was unable to find the sealed bearings for the front wheel. And I wanted to start using it. So I went to Good Karma bikes in San Jose which has an impressive collection of used bikes and parts, and bought the wheels that are on the bike for $40/ea., new. Origin8 sealed bearing hubs on 27x1" rims, straight gauge spokes, never used. Another $80 I didn't intend to spend but whatever. At least they are good looking whereas the spokes on the original wheels look like crap.

Furthermore it has these ridiculous narrow bars, 37.5 cm. Fortunately I have a 3TTT quill-stem-and-42cm-double-grooved-bars combo in primo condition leftover from the late 90's, the very thing required.

Also despite having only ever been ridden a few times to the store and back, and having been under the original owner's house all its life, there were rust spots on the seatstays. My local hobby shop having closed last month I had to drive 25 mi. across the valley (should have ridden) to find a can of burgundy model paint, ... and it was the wrong burgundy... but again, ... whatever. I like the bike.

It got me 18 miles to work this morning with no problems. Going to leave now and see if it'll get me home.

dkl
--
cheers,

John B.

On 1/7/2016 8:22 PM, Doug Landau wrote:

snip

I was recently wondering about the difference between this model and the America, and concluded that it was frame material. Now I also wonder if maybe the America had more braze-ons. This bike has no seat tube water bottle mounts, no rack mounts on the seatstays, and only one eyelet per side per end, so nowhere left for a rack after attaching the fenders. I wonder if lots and lots of braze-ons significantly increases the time required to build the frame...

My expedition is loaded with braze-ons, having been designed as a
touring bike. Even has internal wiring for a bottom bracket Sanyo dynamo.

For a rear rack, use one of the seat tube adapters:

http://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FMONO or
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X0JQ0A2. Avoid P clamps.

For water bottle mounts on standard diameter steel tubing use these
http://www.dx.com/p/universal-adjustable-aluminum-alloy-cycling-bicycle-flashlight-torch-mount-holder-black-92149
and replace the included thumbscrews with M5x10mm Allen head bolts.

Above all, remember that all the experts agree that drilling holes in
your frame to install Rivnuts is an extremely bad idea.

My LBS was unable to find the sealed bearings for the front wheel. And I wanted to start using it. So I went to Good Karma bikes in San Jose which has an impressive collection of used bikes and parts, and bought the wheels that are on the bike for $40/ea., new. Origin8 sealed bearing hubs on 27x1" rims, straight gauge spokes, never used. Another $80 I didn't intend to spend but whatever. At least they are good looking whereas the spokes on the original wheels look like crap.

Heh, I've donated two bicycles that my son outgrew to Good Karma, but
found their used wheels to be a little pricey. For six more months I can
get QBP stuff at wholesale prices, but I have to wait for it to be
shipped, and the wheels from them were a better deal. I haven't been to
the new Good Karma location yet.

On Thursday, January 7, 2016 at 8:22:51 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
Well, I go the Fuji I was talking about. It started raining here, and I rode to work once in it, without a fender, and got soaked and a black roadgrime stripe up my a$$ and up my still-decent-looking backpack... needed fenders, bad.

www.douglandau.net/images/fuji

The bike trips me out. Because AFAICT, it is _almost_ the bike that the much-celebrated Miyata 1000 and Specialized Expedition are, and well before them, and yet wasn't even touted as a full-blown tourer. But it has the triple and the barcons.

It was not quite as $$$-saving as I had hoped, as the owner wanted 400 for it, and I gave him 350, and spent 50 on gas to get it. After spending more on new rubber, wheel bearings, fenders, a rack, chain, etc, it will have cost over half of what a new Raleigh Sojourn does. But it still comes in at 1/2 the price, and I had fun watching for and finding it. Besides I wouldn't want the disc brake that comes on the Raleigh, nor for that matter the index shifting. Any rear wheel will work in the Fuji.

My previous one of these, which was stolen, was much less painful to get into, at $80. But that one was also older, and had a double, and was heavier, being made of Hi-Ten or VaLite, I forget, whereas by the time this one was made they had switched to double-butted CrMo. The difference is noticeable - this one is not such a tank.


Holy crap, did you drive to LA to get that thing? $50 for gas? I never fail to be amazed at the amount charged (and paid) for mid-fi and lo-fi '80s bikes. The price you paid was not bad for the market, but I just don't understand the market.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 7:12:47 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, January 7, 2016 at 8:22:51 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
Well, I go the Fuji I was talking about. It started raining here, and I rode to work once in it, without a fender, and got soaked and a black roadgrime stripe up my a$$ and up my still-decent-looking backpack... needed fenders, bad.

www.douglandau.net/images/fuji

The bike trips me out. Because AFAICT, it is _almost_ the bike that the much-celebrated Miyata 1000 and Specialized Expedition are, and well before them, and yet wasn't even touted as a full-blown tourer. But it has the triple and the barcons.

It was not quite as $$$-saving as I had hoped, as the owner wanted 400 for it, and I gave him 350, and spent 50 on gas to get it. After spending more on new rubber, wheel bearings, fenders, a rack, chain, etc, it will have cost over half of what a new Raleigh Sojourn does. But it still comes in at 1/2 the price, and I had fun watching for and finding it. Besides I wouldn't want the disc brake that comes on the Raleigh, nor for that matter the index shifting. Any rear wheel will work in the Fuji.

My previous one of these, which was stolen, was much less painful to get into, at $80. But that one was also older, and had a double, and was heavier, being made of Hi-Ten or VaLite, I forget, whereas by the time this one was made they had switched to double-butted CrMo. The difference is noticeable - this one is not such a tank.


Holy crap, did you drive to LA to get that thing? $50 for gas? I never fail to be amazed at the amount charged (and paid) for mid-fi and lo-fi '80s bikes. The price you paid was not bad for the market, but I just don't understand the market.

-- Jay Beattie.

Have you seen what a 4-door dodge dart is going for?

On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 3:04:17 AM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 20:22:47 -0800 (PST), Doug Landau wrote:

I was recently wondering about the difference between this model and the America, and concluded that it was frame material. Now I also wonder if maybe the America had more braze-ons. This bike has no seat tube water bottle mounts, no rack mounts on the seatstays, and only one eyelet per side per end, so nowhere left for a rack after attaching the fenders. I wonder if lots and lots of braze-ons significantly increases the time required to build the frame...

Adding braze-ons is primarily a matter of getting them in the right
place. If you have fixtures to align and hold them it takes minutes
per braze-on to actually braze them on.

Well then why are there not more of them?

On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 05:05:32 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 1/7/2016 8:22 PM, Doug Landau wrote:

snip

I was recently wondering about the difference between this model and the America, and concluded that it was frame material. Now I also wonder if maybe the America had more braze-ons. This bike has no seat tube water bottle mounts, no rack mounts on the seatstays, and only one eyelet per side per end, so nowhere left for a rack after attaching the fenders. I wonder if lots and lots of braze-ons significantly increases the time required to build the frame...

My expedition is loaded with braze-ons, having been designed as a
touring bike. Even has internal wiring for a bottom bracket Sanyo dynamo.

For a rear rack, use one of the seat tube adapters:

http://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FMONO or
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X0JQ0A2. Avoid P clamps.

For water bottle mounts on standard diameter steel tubing use these
http://www.dx.com/p/universal-adjustable-aluminum-alloy-cycling-bicycle-flashlight-torch-mount-holder-black-92149
and replace the included thumbscrews with M5x10mm Allen head bolts.

Above all, remember that all the experts agree that drilling holes in
your frame to install Rivnuts is an extremely bad idea.


There you go again. The O.P. was discussing cost of making a steel
frame and asking about the additional cost of installing more
braze-ons.

Or didn't you know that steel frames seldom, if ever, have riv-nuts
installed during manufacturer, if for no other reason that riv-nuts
are more costly then braze-ons.

It is becoming more and more evident that your knowledge of bicycles
is somewhat nebulous.

(nebulous: lacking definition or definite content )

My LBS was unable to find the sealed bearings for the front wheel. And I wanted to start using it. So I went to Good Karma bikes in San Jose which has an impressive collection of used bikes and parts, and bought the wheels that are on the bike for $40/ea., new. Origin8 sealed bearing hubs on 27x1" rims, straight gauge spokes, never used. Another $80 I didn't intend to spend but whatever. At least they are good looking whereas the spokes on the original wheels look like crap.

Heh, I've donated two bicycles that my son outgrew to Good Karma, but
found their used wheels to be a little pricey. For six more months I can
get QBP stuff at wholesale prices, but I have to wait for it to be
shipped, and the wheels from them were a better deal. I haven't been to
the new Good Karma location yet.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 10:46:06 AM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 7:12:47 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, January 7, 2016 at 8:22:51 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
Well, I go the Fuji I was talking about. It started raining here, and I rode to work once in it, without a fender, and got soaked and a black roadgrime stripe up my a$$ and up my still-decent-looking backpack... needed fenders, bad.

www.douglandau.net/images/fuji

The bike trips me out. Because AFAICT, it is _almost_ the bike that the much-celebrated Miyata 1000 and Specialized Expedition are, and well before them, and yet wasn't even touted as a full-blown tourer. But it has the triple and the barcons.

It was not quite as $$$-saving as I had hoped, as the owner wanted 400 for it, and I gave him 350, and spent 50 on gas to get it. After spending more on new rubber, wheel bearings, fenders, a rack, chain, etc, it will have cost over half of what a new Raleigh Sojourn does. But it still comes in at 1/2 the price, and I had fun watching for and finding it. Besides I wouldn't want the disc brake that comes on the Raleigh, nor for that matter the index shifting. Any rear wheel will work in the Fuji.

My previous one of these, which was stolen, was much less painful to get into, at $80. But that one was also older, and had a double, and was heavier, being made of Hi-Ten or VaLite, I forget, whereas by the time this one was made they had switched to double-butted CrMo. The difference is noticeable - this one is not such a tank.


Holy crap, did you drive to LA to get that thing? $50 for gas? I never fail to be amazed at the amount charged (and paid) for mid-fi and lo-fi '80s bikes. The price you paid was not bad for the market, but I just don't understand the market.

-- Jay Beattie.

Have you seen what a 4-door dodge dart is going for?

I looked. Gak! I don't get it . . . really. The Dart was a POS new. Speaking of . . . http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1974...AOSwEetWAL0 f A mere $800 for a Schwinn Varsity. That will never, ever sell.

I can see getting all sentimental about a Masi or custom built bike. Every so often, I see a Mike Appel frame in the racks -- which is mesmerizing. http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/Appel.htm

I was getting that far-away look while admiring an old Caylor at the beer and handmade bikes show over at the Hub, and lo and behold, Gunnar stepped out from behind a banner, and we talked at length about the good old days (which bored my son to tears). Gunnar is back! http://www.caylorcyclesretooled.com/home.html Top that Folsom: http://hopworksbeer.com/handmadebikeandbeerfest/

If I bought an old frame, however, it would get spaced to 130mm and new equipment. No way I'm going back to NR friction shifting, nominal hub seals ("dust covers") and open-bearing BBs. I have no desire to resurrect all my giant wrenches. They have been repurposed for home defense and clubbing baby harp seals.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 1/8/2016 7:35 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 10:46:06 AM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:

Have you seen what a 4-door dodge dart is going for?

I looked. Gak! I don't get it . . . really. The Dart was a POS new.

There's no accounting for fashion.

Are you drinking PBR yet?

The pendulum swings back and forth, back and forth.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 7:35:58 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
I have no desire to resurrect all my giant wrenches. They have been repurposed for home defense and clubbing baby harp seals.

-- Jay Beattie.

Did you ever find those Shimano Dura Ace AX/600 AX headset wrenches?

Btw, in regards to the Sora thread. Dua Ace AX and 600 AX had adjustable drop bar brake levers.

Cheers