Project Fuji S12

On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 12:54:06 -0800 (PST), Doug Landau
wrote:

On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 3:04:17 AM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 20:22:47 -0800 (PST), Doug Landau wrote:

I was recently wondering about the difference between this model and the America, and concluded that it was frame material. Now I also wonder if maybe the America had more braze-ons. This bike has no seat tube water bottle mounts, no rack mounts on the seatstays, and only one eyelet per side per end, so nowhere left for a rack after attaching the fenders. I wonder if lots and lots of braze-ons significantly increases the time required to build the frame...

Adding braze-ons is primarily a matter of getting them in the right
place. If you have fixtures to align and hold them it takes minutes
per braze-on to actually braze them on.

Well then why are there not more of them?


Because it isn't "cool" to have a bunch of braze-ons. Take a look at
any of the top end "road bike" models and not only do they have a
minimum of braze-ons (or riv-nuts) but they have narrow little forks
so you can't put fenders on them.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 2:15:44 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 7:35:58 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
I have no desire to resurrect all my giant wrenches. They have been repurposed for home defense and clubbing baby harp seals.

-- Jay Beattie.

Did you ever find those Shimano Dura Ace AX/600 AX headset wrenches?

Btw, in regards to the Sora thread. Dua Ace AX and 600 AX had adjustable drop bar brake levers.

Cheers

Yes, I sent you a private e-mail. It's a super-good deal: $12.50 including shipping via USP. You have to promise not to resell them on eBay for ten times the price.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 1/8/2016 7:12 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, January 7, 2016 at 8:22:51 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
Well, I go the Fuji I was talking about. It started raining here, and I rode to work once in it, without a fender, and got soaked and a black roadgrime stripe up my a$$ and up my still-decent-looking backpack... needed fenders, bad.

www.douglandau.net/images/fuji

The bike trips me out. Because AFAICT, it is _almost_ the bike that the much-celebrated Miyata 1000 and Specialized Expedition are, and well before them, and yet wasn't even touted as a full-blown tourer. But it has the triple and the barcons.

It was not quite as $$$-saving as I had hoped, as the owner wanted 400 for it, and I gave him 350, and spent 50 on gas to get it. After spending more on new rubber, wheel bearings, fenders, a rack, chain, etc, it will have cost over half of what a new Raleigh Sojourn does. But it still comes in at 1/2 the price, and I had fun watching for and finding it. Besides I wouldn't want the disc brake that comes on the Raleigh, nor for that matter the index shifting. Any rear wheel will work in the Fuji.

My previous one of these, which was stolen, was much less painful to get into, at $80. But that one was also older, and had a double, and was heavier, being made of Hi-Ten or VaLite, I forget, whereas by the time this one was made they had switched to double-butted CrMo. The difference is noticeable - this one is not such a tank.


Holy crap, did you drive to LA to get that thing? $50 for gas? I never fail to be amazed at the amount charged (and paid) for mid-fi and lo-fi '80s bikes. The price you paid was not bad for the market, but I just don't understand the market.

-- Jay Beattie.


Wow, I did not see the $350 thing until now. I see those 80's touring
bikes at our city's citywide garage sale for less than $100, but by the
same token you can see them on craigslist for $800.

The S12 was really what they called "sport touring" not really for
touring, more of a non-racing road bike. I suspect that the "S12"
referred to 12 speed, so at some point a triple got added (which was
common in California in the 1980's).

I'd get one of the 4130 CroMo touring bicycles from Bikesdirect if I
wanted a touring bike for under $1K.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/gran_turismo.htm though
they go through these so fast that you have to luck out to find them in
stock.

On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 10:18:33 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 2:15:44 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 7:35:58 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
I have no desire to resurrect all my giant wrenches. They have been repurposed for home defense and clubbing baby harp seals.

-- Jay Beattie.

Did you ever find those Shimano Dura Ace AX/600 AX headset wrenches?

Btw, in regards to the Sora thread. Dua Ace AX and 600 AX had adjustable drop bar brake levers.

Cheers

Yes, I sent you a private e-mail. It's a super-good deal: $12.50 including shipping via USP. You have to promise not to resell them on eBay for ten times the price.

-- Jay Beattie.

Email sent.

No way would I sell them let alone on Evil Bay! I NEED them for my Dura Ace AX headset. I'm not getting rid of this Dura Ace AX groupset either.

Cheers

On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 8:08:30 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 1/8/2016 7:12 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, January 7, 2016 at 8:22:51 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
Well, I go the Fuji I was talking about. It started raining here, and I rode to work once in it, without a fender, and got soaked and a black roadgrime stripe up my a$$ and up my still-decent-looking backpack... needed fenders, bad.

www.douglandau.net/images/fuji

The bike trips me out. Because AFAICT, it is _almost_ the bike that the much-celebrated Miyata 1000 and Specialized Expedition are, and well before them, and yet wasn't even touted as a full-blown tourer. But it has the triple and the barcons.

It was not quite as $$$-saving as I had hoped, as the owner wanted 400 for it, and I gave him 350, and spent 50 on gas to get it. After spending more on new rubber, wheel bearings, fenders, a rack, chain, etc, it will have cost over half of what a new Raleigh Sojourn does. But it still comes in at 1/2 the price, and I had fun watching for and finding it. Besides I wouldn't want the disc brake that comes on the Raleigh, nor for that matter the index shifting. Any rear wheel will work in the Fuji.

My previous one of these, which was stolen, was much less painful to get into, at $80. But that one was also older, and had a double, and was heavier, being made of Hi-Ten or VaLite, I forget, whereas by the time this one was made they had switched to double-butted CrMo. The difference is noticeable - this one is not such a tank.


Holy crap, did you drive to LA to get that thing? $50 for gas? I never fail to be amazed at the amount charged (and paid) for mid-fi and lo-fi '80s bikes. The price you paid was not bad for the market, but I just don't understand the market.

-- Jay Beattie.


Wow, I did not see the $350 thing until now. I see those 80's touring
bikes at our city's citywide garage sale for less than $100, but by the
same token you can see them on craigslist for $800.

The S12 was really what they called "sport touring" not really for
touring, more of a non-racing road bike. I suspect that the "S12"
referred to 12 speed, so at some point a triple got added (which was
common in California in the 1980's).

I'd get one of the 4130 CroMo touring bicycles from Bikesdirect if I
wanted a touring bike for under $1K.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/gran_turismo.htm though
they go through these so fast that you have to luck out to find them in
stock.

Meh. That thing doesn't even come in a 56.

On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 8:08:47 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 05:05:32 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 1/7/2016 8:22 PM, Doug Landau wrote:

snip

I was recently wondering about the difference between this model and the America, and concluded that it was frame material. Now I also wonder if maybe the America had more braze-ons. This bike has no seat tube water bottle mounts, no rack mounts on the seatstays, and only one eyelet per side per end, so nowhere left for a rack after attaching the fenders. I wonder if lots and lots of braze-ons significantly increases the time required to build the frame...

My expedition is loaded with braze-ons, having been designed as a
touring bike. Even has internal wiring for a bottom bracket Sanyo dynamo..

For a rear rack, use one of the seat tube adapters:

http://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FMONO or
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X0JQ0A2. Avoid P clamps.

For water bottle mounts on standard diameter steel tubing use these
http://www.dx.com/p/universal-adjustable-aluminum-alloy-cycling-bicycle-flashlight-torch-mount-holder-black-92149
and replace the included thumbscrews with M5x10mm Allen head bolts.

Above all, remember that all the experts agree that drilling holes in
your frame to install Rivnuts is an extremely bad idea.


There you go again. The O.P. was discussing cost of making a steel
frame and asking about the additional cost of installing more
braze-ons.

No, I wasn't. I was wondering why the bike didn't come with more of them: if this is because they weren't trying to make it a fully usable touring bike, or if it was for cost-cutting, even though they were, or some other reason such as they weren't perceived as important then.

Wow, I did not see the $350 thing until now. I see those 80's touring
bikes at our city's citywide garage sale for less than $100, but by the
same token you can see them on craigslist for $800.

The $100 bikes are readily available but not in the model you want. I agree 350 was far more than I would have liked to pay but I had my mind set and had been watching the ads for 6 months.

The S12 was really what they called "sport touring" not really for
touring, more of a non-racing road bike.

It was billed that way when it was first introduced as the S10-S but then got the barcons and the triple, and in doing so became, AFAICT, like an America - the touring model - but with cheaper tubing.

I suspect that the "S12"
referred to 12 speed, so at some point a triple got added (which was
common in California in the 1980's).

There were 18speed S-12s.
http://www.classicfuji.com/1983_13_S...ed%29_Page.htm

This pic of an America also shows neither 2nd eyelets nor seattube water bottle mounts. It also reveals a possible explanation for the latter: perhaps because Fuji thinks a pump should go there.

I'd get one of the 4130 CroMo touring bicycles from Bikesdirect if I
wanted a touring bike for under $1K.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/gran_turismo.htm though
they go through these so fast that you have to luck out to find them in
stock.

Somebody at Fuji did the barcons and the triple on purpose. There is an abundance of models like Berkeley, Cambridge, Monterey, Esprit, and S10 for the college/sport crowd.

In fact, there is a significant overabundance of models altogether, I think.

dkl

On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 16:35:55 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

Speaking of . . .
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1974-Restored-Schwinn-10-Speed-Varsity-Road-Bike-/272027129158
A mere $800 for a Schwinn Varsity. That will never, ever sell.

Yep. Looks like $125 to $200 is the selling price range:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1& _nkw=schwinn+varsity&_sop=16

If I bought an old frame, however, it would get spaced to 130mm and new equipment. No way
I'm going back to NR friction shifting, nominal hub seals ("dust covers") and open-bearing BBs.

Sniff. You're insulting my 1984 vintage touring machine:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/slides/Miyata-610.html
It has friction shifters, non-sealed bottom bracket bearings, solid
axles, and some kind of hub seal (I'm too lazy to go look). Also,
notice the vintage rust-like patina on the exposed steel parts, the
crumbling gum brake lever covers, and the decomposing rubber
everywhere. Incidentally, I think it's the only bicycle that I've
ever purchased new from an LBS.

I have no desire to resurrect all my giant wrenches.

These days, you only need one (or maybe two) such wrenches:
https://www.groupon.com/deals/gg-stalwart-15-in-1-bicycle-wrench-2

They have
been repurposed for home defense and clubbing baby harp seals.

No wonder seals are an endangered species with all the sealed bearings
now found on bicycles. Save the seals and go back to cup-n-cone
bearings.






--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 11:11:53 PM UTC-8, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 16:35:55 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

Speaking of . . .
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1974-Restored-Schwinn-10-Speed-Varsity-Road-Bike-/272027129158
A mere $800 for a Schwinn Varsity. That will never, ever sell.

Yep. Looks like $125 to $200 is the selling price range:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1& _nkw=schwinn+varsity&_sop=16

If I bought an old frame, however, it would get spaced to 130mm and new equipment. No way
I'm going back to NR friction shifting, nominal hub seals ("dust covers") and open-bearing BBs.

Sniff. You're insulting my 1984 vintage touring machine:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/slides/Miyata-610.html
It has friction shifters, non-sealed bottom bracket bearings, solid
axles, and some kind of hub seal (I'm too lazy to go look). Also,
notice the vintage rust-like patina on the exposed steel parts, the
crumbling gum brake lever covers, and the decomposing rubber
everywhere. Incidentally, I think it's the only bicycle that I've
ever purchased new from an LBS.

That was a good bang-for-the-buck bike back in the day -- and except for the cellotape, I could still ride something like that on a long tour. I'm not a fan of half-step plus granny and friction shifting, but one can adapt. If I were using it for daily riding, through winter, fall, spring (all the wet months), it would get modernized. The days of spending an afternoon rebuilding hubs, headsets, pedals, BBs, oiling freewheels and greasing cables are behind me.

-- Jay Beattie.