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#41
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MTB disc brake caused wild fire
On 2018-03-30 02:04, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:44:58 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-29 14:34, Roger Merriman wrote: sms wrote: On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote: Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding. Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes. Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have cables that weather eats, etc. All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is cable the others are hydraulic. The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set up you feed them pads which is very easy. Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish) miles commuting disks and preferably Hydro are game changers in terms of performance and maintenance. In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap between the two, my gravel bikes cable disks is about as powerful as the old commute MTB with its older and cheaper Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to my Full suspension MTB. I recently upgrade to 8" rotors front and back. That was the real game changer. I can lock up either wheel with one finger and brake response is prontissimo. Now I no longer have to worry when riding a steep trail with some cargo in the back. But I can lock up either, or both, wheels with vee brakes. With one finger unless I want to lock both wheels which takes two fingers :-) And, I might add, no requirement for bleeding either. Now try that again when the rims are wet. With locking up I mean instantly, tens of milliseconds. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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#43
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MTB disc brake caused wild fire
On 2018-03-30 07:08, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 11:09:37 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 1:41:51 AM UTC+2, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-29 14:32, AMuzi wrote: On 3/29/2018 4:19 PM, wrote: On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 9:47:20 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-29 12:25, wrote: On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote: On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote: Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding. With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that is harder than tool steel, nails and rocks, I'm sure you could build a front wheel for your MTB using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and lever. After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am quite pleased with the brake performance of my MTB. The bleeding is messy but only needs to be done about once a year and takes 1/2h. Once a year? Why? Because after about a year the lever for the rear brake starts feeling soft. Braking is still fine and most other riders just leave it like that but I like the pressure point nice and hard. Also, the slightest amount of air in the line near the caliper can cause a brake failure on a long downhill which here in the hills is not cool. Never bleed my brakes on my cross bike for 4 years now and they feel like they did on day 1. Shimano must be doing something right. Says the guy riding in Nederlands where there are no mountain lions. Of course they work for you. There are also no hills and dirt and stuff, or having to ride through rivers. My MTB brake calipers regularly reach a state where you can't even seem them anymore. The guys using Shimano out here need to bleed them as well, except they can't use the DOT4 fluid from the garage cabinet. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ As I said they are on my crossbike which see more mud and dirt you can image. And lots of steep short up and downhills. In total I spent 3 months in California during my trips. Never had a day of rain, some drizzle/fog in San Francisco... Where do you take your CX bike? Eastern Belgium? Or to the Alps? Mud is really horrid on rim brakes. 1-2sec "free fall" and then a grinding noise while the rim gets eaten. Story time: I was born and raised in California and raced NorCal and used to ride a lot with a guy from Vancouver, Washington. He would step out from his apartment, look up and say "another nice day." I didn't know what he was taking about until I moved to Portland. He would go to Portland every year at Fourth of July for the races at Alpenrose. https://www.bicycleattorney.com/img/...015-oregon.jpg He would come back and tell me that it rained. WTF? In July? We were cooking in July. Anyway, even in the Central Valley you can get some epic rain storms, and in Joergville, maybe a dusting of snow now and then and some rain. It is, however, a dry climate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnBoGhNWXx4 Nah, this is the real Cameron Park: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu7DULHr738 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhKoIsNda8s ... Lots of oak, madrone, bay and brown grass during summer. I miss the smell, and up the road a ways, there is some great climbing . . . on the road. In fact, it is some of the best climbing and scenery in the US, although considerably east of Joerg's house. It's all around us. Road and offroad, and I prefer offroad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH--6YiJcwU Though my ultimate retirement destination would be St.George in Utah. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#44
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MTB disc brake caused wild fire
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 8:03:12 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-30 07:08, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 11:09:37 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 1:41:51 AM UTC+2, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-29 14:32, AMuzi wrote: On 3/29/2018 4:19 PM, wrote: On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 9:47:20 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-29 12:25, wrote: On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote: On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote: Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding. With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that is harder than tool steel, nails and rocks, I'm sure you could build a front wheel for your MTB using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and lever. After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am quite pleased with the brake performance of my MTB. The bleeding is messy but only needs to be done about once a year and takes 1/2h. Once a year? Why? Because after about a year the lever for the rear brake starts feeling soft. Braking is still fine and most other riders just leave it like that but I like the pressure point nice and hard. Also, the slightest amount of air in the line near the caliper can cause a brake failure on a long downhill which here in the hills is not cool. Never bleed my brakes on my cross bike for 4 years now and they feel like they did on day 1. Shimano must be doing something right. Says the guy riding in Nederlands where there are no mountain lions. Of course they work for you. There are also no hills and dirt and stuff, or having to ride through rivers. My MTB brake calipers regularly reach a state where you can't even seem them anymore. The guys using Shimano out here need to bleed them as well, except they can't use the DOT4 fluid from the garage cabinet. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ As I said they are on my crossbike which see more mud and dirt you can image. And lots of steep short up and downhills. In total I spent 3 months in California during my trips. Never had a day of rain, some drizzle/fog in San Francisco... Where do you take your CX bike? Eastern Belgium? Or to the Alps? Mud is really horrid on rim brakes. 1-2sec "free fall" and then a grinding noise while the rim gets eaten. Story time: I was born and raised in California and raced NorCal and used to ride a lot with a guy from Vancouver, Washington. He would step out from his apartment, look up and say "another nice day." I didn't know what he was taking about until I moved to Portland. He would go to Portland every year at Fourth of July for the races at Alpenrose. https://www.bicycleattorney.com/img/...015-oregon.jpg He would come back and tell me that it rained. WTF? In July? We were cooking in July. Anyway, even in the Central Valley you can get some epic rain storms, and in Joergville, maybe a dusting of snow now and then and some rain. It is, however, a dry climate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnBoGhNWXx4 Nah, this is the real Cameron Park: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu7DULHr738 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhKoIsNda8s I've flown in there with my brother a few times -- it's a quick spin from STS and Santa Rosa. I could not imagine living near an airstrip, however. You better visit St. George before moving. It's the moon compared to the Sierra foothills. If I were you, I'd go to Europe -- one of those, warm picturesque places around the Mediterranean. No strip malls. -- Jay Beattie. |
#45
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MTB disc brake caused wild fire
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#46
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MTB disc brake caused wild fire
On 3/30/2018 10:27 AM, Joerg wrote:
Disc brakes afford a substantial increase in safety. I tend to adopt things that increase safety, no matter where. I doubt that. There are literally thousands of things a person could possibly do to increase their "safety." Do you wear your bike helmet when walking in the city, or when driving your car? Do you have six-foot high flippy flags on your bikes? Do you always wear elbow and knee pads? Have you thrown away all sharp knives in your home? Did you remove the stairs in your home and install elevators? Again: There are always detriments as well as benefits. Yes, the marketers and those proselytizing for their own choices go to great length to overstate dangers and overstate benefits. Others are less easily duped. I'll put the latest "visibility" study in a separate thread. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#47
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MTB disc brake caused wild fire
On 3/30/2018 4:56 AM, John B. wrote:
I note that some of those who have so many problems with rim brakes seem to have so many problems with practically everything on the bicycle and, I might add that those who don't seem to have a lot of brake problems don't seem that have a lot of problems with the rest of the bike either :-) Very true. I'll note that further generalization is possible. Some people just have lots more trouble than others. But I suppose it's rude to speculate why. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#48
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MTB disc brake caused wild fire
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 5:03:12 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-30 07:08, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 11:09:37 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 1:41:51 AM UTC+2, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-29 14:32, AMuzi wrote: On 3/29/2018 4:19 PM, wrote: On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 9:47:20 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-29 12:25, wrote: On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote: On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote: Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding. With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that is harder than tool steel, nails and rocks, I'm sure you could build a front wheel for your MTB using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and lever. After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am quite pleased with the brake performance of my MTB. The bleeding is messy but only needs to be done about once a year and takes 1/2h. Once a year? Why? Because after about a year the lever for the rear brake starts feeling soft. Braking is still fine and most other riders just leave it like that but I like the pressure point nice and hard. Also, the slightest amount of air in the line near the caliper can cause a brake failure on a long downhill which here in the hills is not cool. Never bleed my brakes on my cross bike for 4 years now and they feel like they did on day 1. Shimano must be doing something right. Says the guy riding in Nederlands where there are no mountain lions. Of course they work for you. There are also no hills and dirt and stuff, or having to ride through rivers. My MTB brake calipers regularly reach a state where you can't even seem them anymore. The guys using Shimano out here need to bleed them as well, except they can't use the DOT4 fluid from the garage cabinet. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ As I said they are on my crossbike which see more mud and dirt you can image. And lots of steep short up and downhills. In total I spent 3 months in California during my trips. Never had a day of rain, some drizzle/fog in San Francisco... Where do you take your CX bike? Eastern Belgium? Or to the Alps? Just in my backyard, most of the time just across the German border. Once in a while I make a clip of our ride. You can download (it is save) a clip of a typical sunday morning winter ride here https://we.tl/6awaXeHLBp Lou |
#49
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MTB disc brake caused wild fire
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 05:42:22 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 1:16:42 PM UTC+2, John B. wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 02:29:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 11:04:26 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote: On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:44:58 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-29 14:34, Roger Merriman wrote: sms wrote: On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote: Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding. Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes. Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have cables that weather eats, etc. All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is cable the others are hydraulic. The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set up you feed them pads which is very easy. Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish) miles commuting disks and preferably Hydro are game changers in terms of performance and maintenance. In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap between the two, my gravel bikes cable disks is about as powerful as the old commute MTB with its older and cheaper Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to my Full suspension MTB. I recently upgrade to 8" rotors front and back. That was the real game changer. I can lock up either wheel with one finger and brake response is prontissimo. Now I no longer have to worry when riding a steep trail with some cargo in the back. But I can lock up either, or both, wheels with vee brakes. With one finger unless I want to lock both wheels which takes two fingers :-) And, I might add, no requirement for bleeding either. -- Cheers, John B. You keep saying that, but are you also denying that in case of a descent in really wet conditions your rim brakes (V or calipers) brake signifant less than in dry conditions? Lou I don't know, or more factually, I never noticed. And, yes, as I live in a tropical country I do get caught in the rain from time to time. To be frank, I never gave the brakes a thought - they just worked. Then along came this thread and I discovered that the rim brakes that I had always considered satisfactory turned out to be ****! Damn, about 20 years of being satisfied with what I had and now I've got to convert to disc brakes to be able to stop the bike. -- Cheers, John B. No one but Joerg is saying that you die if you use rim brakes. We all use or used rim brakes and we survived. This doesn't mean that (hydraulic) disc brake are better in wet conditions. Lou But "Better"means what? That you can stop faster with a disc? But my rim brakes will skid either or both wheels in the wet. Given that bicycle braking is limited by(1) tire adhesion to the blacktop and/or (2) keeping the rear wheel on the ground how can a brake be better then one that can stop the wheel from turning? -- Cheers, John B. |
#50
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MTB disc brake caused wild fire
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 07:19:42 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-03-30 02:04, John B. wrote: On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:44:58 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-29 14:34, Roger Merriman wrote: sms wrote: On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote: Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding. Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes. Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have cables that weather eats, etc. All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is cable the others are hydraulic. The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set up you feed them pads which is very easy. Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish) miles commuting disks and preferably Hydro are game changers in terms of performance and maintenance. In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap between the two, my gravel bikes cable disks is about as powerful as the old commute MTB with its older and cheaper Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to my Full suspension MTB. I recently upgrade to 8" rotors front and back. That was the real game changer. I can lock up either wheel with one finger and brake response is prontissimo. Now I no longer have to worry when riding a steep trail with some cargo in the back. But I can lock up either, or both, wheels with vee brakes. With one finger unless I want to lock both wheels which takes two fingers :-) And, I might add, no requirement for bleeding either. Now try that again when the rims are wet. With locking up I mean instantly, tens of milliseconds. A recent study demonstrated that an auditory stimulus takes 8 - 10 ms to reach the brain, but on the other hand, a visual stimulus takes 20-40 ms. After the brain recognizes the event it must trigger the muscles to react. Most texts seem to suggest that a good reaction time is anywhere between 0.25 seconds and 0.35 seconds. Or 250 - 350 milliseconds. Your 10 millisecond reaction is much quicker then has been tested in humans.... One can only assume that you are from Krypton. -- Cheers, John B. |
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