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#61
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Is it possible to live in America without a car?
On 1 Dec 2005 07:25:30 -0800, "
wrote: Jasper Janssen wrote: On 29 Nov 2005 09:59:49 -0800, wrote: Sometime remind me to tell you about the border crossing between Greece and Turkey that preceded it. This sounds interesting. I did a Turkey -Greece in the late 1980's and slept through most of it. I do remember waking up for a moment as we glided by the gun emplacements and later waking up in a lone car on a Greek siding. Apparently our car was shunted across and the rest of the train remained in Turkey. Yeah, the other way round is pretty easy. There's only one train with one car per day that crosses the border, and the Greek trains pick up the passengers from Turkey fairly quickly. However, there are two trains a day that go straight from Athens to said border town. One of them arrives a mere 3 hours or so before the car to Turkey leaves and the other one arrives 11 hours before that. Guess which one I picked by misreading my timetables. Yeah. So there I am, leaving Athens fairly late at night, I arrive in the little border town at not long after dawn, not having slept much, not having anything much to eat with me and I find out... that my train leaves at 15:30. This station, since you probably didn't get so great a look at it, was an utter ghost place. Nothing open in the way of shops, no trains whatsoever coming or going, nobody even keeping an eye on it. I was there with an englishman teaching English as a Second Language in Istanbul who was in the same boat, so we took turns watching our bags so we could explore a little. About a kilometre down the road was the real town, which was just as sleepy. There was a small Byzantine stronghold there which was being restored with EU money. That was pretty much it. Oh, yes, and along the road between town and station were an awful lot of restaurants with large terraces out front, presumably for tables and chairs, that were utterly deserted. I finally managed to convince one of them to sell me some ice cream. I ended up buying some emergency supplies at the Turkish border station on the other side, and arrived in Istanbul at midnight. I was lucky enough to find a tout at the station who could take me to a hostel right beside the station where I could have a private room for 10 euros a night, including breakfast, and I had a good time there. But jesus, is that Greek border town *boring*. Jasper |
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#62
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Is it possible to live in America without a car?
Jasper Janssen wrote: On 1 Dec 2005 07:25:30 -0800, " wrote: Jasper Janssen wrote: On 29 Nov 2005 09:59:49 -0800, wrote: Sometime remind me to tell you about the border crossing between Greece and Turkey that preceded it. This sounds interesting. I did a Turkey -Greece in the late 1980's and slept through most of it. I do remember waking up for a moment as we glided by the gun emplacements and later waking up in a lone car on a Greek siding. Apparently our car was shunted across and the rest of the train remained in Turkey. Yeah, the other way round is pretty easy. There's only one train with one car per day that crosses the border, and the Greek trains pick up the passengers from Turkey fairly quickly. However, there are two trains a day that go straight from Athens to said border town. One of them arrives a mere 3 hours or so before the car to Turkey leaves and the other one arrives 11 hours before that. This sounds familiar. I thought I was on an overnight through train to Salonika. We did not even have an engine AFAIK when we crossed the border. As I mentioned earlier I believe we were shunted across. We arrived at about 06:00 and the Greek train came by at about 11:00. Guess which one I picked by misreading my timetables. It appens. I just barely manged to get the "Express" from Salonika to Athens the next day because a chance-met other Canadian said that he thought I should be able to get a better train and he was right. This was all back in the late 1980's and I understand that at least the Salonika-Athens run has newer and faster trains. Yeah. So there I am, leaving Athens fairly late at night, I arrive in the little border town at not long after dawn, not having slept much, not having anything much to eat with me and I find out... that my train leaves at 15:30. Just like me except in the other direction. Mind you we had also had a 02:30 passport check that required all foreigners to disembark and stumble over to some office. This station, since you probably didn't get so great a look at it, was an utter ghost place. Nothing open in the way of shops, no trains whatsoever coming or going, nobody even keeping an eye on it. When I was there there was a post office /snack bar which I think was actually open. And a fountain and a monument to the fallen of a French infantry regiment. I was there with an englishman teaching English as a Second Language in Istanbul who was in the same boat, so we took turns watching our bags so we could explore a little. About a kilometre down the road was the real town, which was just as sleepy. There was a small Byzantine stronghold there which was being restored with EU money. That was pretty much it. I didn't even find that. I must say the village reminded me of small Northen Ontario towns (villages) Oh, yes, and along the road between town and station were an awful lot of restaurants with large terraces out front, presumably for tables and chairs, that were utterly deserted. I finally managed to convince one of them to sell me some ice cream. Luxury. I think I got a coffee at the post office and finally got something to eat a the somewhat primative snackbar on the train. I ended up buying some emergency supplies at the Turkish border station on the other side, and arrived in Istanbul at midnight. I was lucky enough to find a tout at the station who could take me to a hostel right beside the station where I could have a private room for 10 euros a night, including breakfast, and I had a good time there. But jesus, is that Greek border town *boring*. Jasper Boring hardly comes close IIRC the only sign of life was a team of three men trying to move a freight car using pry bars. Not wildly stimulating. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada |
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Is it possible to live in America without a car?
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 11:59:52 +0000, Dan Connelly wrote:
I've never owned a car, so obviously it is. Sometimes it seems I've spent most of my life in cars (20k+ mi/yr), but I've been living (mostly) without them for almost 4 years. So far so good. Issues: * I rent a car for occasional needs (typically going to cycling events, ironically) I usually carpool with other bike club members. We're all good friends anyway. I rent cars to meet with clients, or to travel to visit family, etc. * shop for food often, rather than weekly. It's better that way, anyway -- less accumulation of stuff I'll never eat, anyway, and fresher food. This is true. Most people rely too much on convenience foods, which take up too much space with all their packaging. I cook entirely from scratch, the only packaged goods being a few canned staples like tomatoes. So my grocery loads are very compact. They can be pretty heavy though! If I had further to go, panniers or a trailer would make sense. But I don't. * I use a courier bag for hauling stuff. I could use a trailer for larger loads, but I just don't have need for that. Two loads a week with a medium-sized backpack does it for me. * Obviously, one needs to choose where to live giving considerable weight to compatibility with a minimal-car lifestyle. This tends to trade off quality for quantity. This is true, but I would choose these areas to begin with, even if I didn't ride a bike. Matt O. |
#64
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Is it possible to live in America without a car?
On 2 Dec 2005 10:39:11 -0800, "
wrote: Jasper Janssen wrote: On 1 Dec 2005 07:25:30 -0800, " wrote: Yeah, the other way round is pretty easy. There's only one train with one car per day that crosses the border, and the Greek trains pick up the passengers from Turkey fairly quickly. However, there are two trains a day that go straight from Athens to said border town. One of them arrives a mere 3 hours or so before the car to Turkey leaves and the other one arrives 11 hours before that. This sounds familiar. I thought I was on an overnight through train to Salonika. We did not even have an engine AFAIK when we crossed the border. As I mentioned earlier I believe we were shunted across. We arrived at about 06:00 and the Greek train came by at about 11:00. Well, the car that I was on did get pushed both ways by an engine, I believe both the car and the engine were Turkish Rail or whatever they call themselves. The car, at least, continued on for the rest of the route after the passport check, but the rest of the train was hooked on first. Guess which one I picked by misreading my timetables. It appens. I just barely manged to get the "Express" from Salonika to Athens the next day because a chance-met other Canadian said that he thought I should be able to get a better train and he was right. This was all back in the late 1980's and I understand that at least the Salonika-Athens run has newer and faster trains. I came to Athens by ferry from Italy, and I can tell you that the Peloponnesos round-journey trains are pretty awful by comparison to those in the rest of Greece. Yeah. So there I am, leaving Athens fairly late at night, I arrive in the little border town at not long after dawn, not having slept much, not having anything much to eat with me and I find out... that my train leaves at 15:30. Just like me except in the other direction. Mind you we had also had a 02:30 passport check that required all foreigners to disembark and stumble over to some office. Ah yes, that happened to me when I left Turkey again -- Istanbul to Bucharest-Romania via Bulgaria. I believe it was the Turkey/Bulgaria border. Most trains they just come by your compartment to check your bleary eyes and the hand holding your passport out to them. There, it's 2:30 or 3:30 or so, they wake you up (I got a sleeper cabin to myself for a few measly euros on top of the Interrail train card) and don't tell you that it's gonna be cold and you'd better put all your kit back on before marching out. At least on that trip I had a lovely cabin all to myself, a good bed, and I bought lots of candy and other edibles in Istanbul. This station, since you probably didn't get so great a look at it, was an utter ghost place. Nothing open in the way of shops, no trains whatsoever coming or going, nobody even keeping an eye on it. When I was there there was a post office /snack bar which I think was actually open. And a fountain and a monument to the fallen of a French infantry regiment. The monument with the fountain was at the Athens-side, road-side of the station wasn't it? I think I spotted that one. They did eventually open up a little counter with water and a few snacks and stale sandwiches in the station itself, but that was when it was getting pretty close to leaving time anyway. I was there with an englishman teaching English as a Second Language in Istanbul who was in the same boat, so we took turns watching our bags so we could explore a little. About a kilometre down the road was the real town, which was just as sleepy. There was a small Byzantine stronghold there which was being restored with EU money. That was pretty much it. I didn't even find that. I must say the village reminded me of small Northen Ontario towns (villages) Never been there. Many of the houses in the village looked abandoned, actually. Oh, yes, and along the road between town and station were an awful lot of restaurants with large terraces out front, presumably for tables and chairs, that were utterly deserted. I finally managed to convince one of them to sell me some ice cream. Luxury. I think I got a coffee at the post office and finally got something to eat a the somewhat primative snackbar on the train. Well, I could even pay them with Euros, by then. It wasn't even particularly cheap. Unlike Turkey and Romania, incidentally (although when I was briefly in Budapest I was hitting relatively high prices again -- a hotel room with bath, both of which I really, really, really needed at that point, cost me the equivalent of 40 euros). I ended up buying some emergency supplies at the Turkish border station on the other side, and arrived in Istanbul at midnight. I was lucky enough to find a tout at the station who could take me to a hostel right beside the station where I could have a private room for 10 euros a night, including breakfast, and I had a good time there. But jesus, is that Greek border town *boring*. Boring hardly comes close IIRC the only sign of life was a team of three men trying to move a freight car using pry bars. Not wildly stimulating. You had men working to watch? Luxury! Jasper |
#65
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Is it possible to live in America without a car?
Jasper Janssen writes:
Yeah, the other way round is pretty easy. There's only one train with one car per day that crosses the border, and the Greek trains pick up the passengers from Turkey fairly quickly. However, there are two trains a day that go straight from Athens to said border town. One of them arrives a mere 3 hours or so before the car to Turkey leaves and the other one arrives 11 hours before that. This sounds familiar. I thought I was on an overnight through train to Salonika. We did not even have an engine AFAIK when we crossed the border. As I mentioned earlier I believe we were shunted across. We arrived at about 06:00 and the Greek train came by at about 11:00. Well, the car that I was on did get pushed both ways by an engine, I believe both the car and the engine were Turkish Rail or whatever they call themselves. The car, at least, continued on for the rest of the route after the passport check, but the rest of the train was hooked on first. Guess which one I picked by misreading my timetables. It appens. I just barely manged to get the "Express" from Salonika to Athens the next day because a chance-met other Canadian said that he thought I should be able to get a better train and he was right. This was all back in the late 1980's and I understand that at least the Salonika-Athens run has newer and faster trains. I came to Athens by ferry from Italy, and I can tell you that the Peloponnesos round-journey trains are pretty awful by comparison to those in the rest of Greece. Yeah. So there I am, leaving Athens fairly late at night, I arrive in the little border town at not long after dawn, not having slept much, not having anything much to eat with me and I find out... that my train leaves at 15:30. Just like me except in the other direction. Mind you we had also had a 02:30 passport check that required all foreigners to disembark and stumble over to some office. Ah yes, that happened to me when I left Turkey again -- Istanbul to Bucharest-Romania via Bulgaria. I believe it was the Turkey/Bulgaria border. Most trains they just come by your compartment to check your bleary eyes and the hand holding your passport out to them. There, it's 2:30 or 3:30 or so, they wake you up (I got a sleeper cabin to myself for a few measly euros on top of the Interrail train card) and don't tell you that it's gonna be cold and you'd better put all your kit back on before marching out. You might fine some appropriate pictures under Tr (Turkey) or Gr (Greece) with links to the stations you most likely encountered at this web site: http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix_frameset.html Jobst Brandt |
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Is it possible to live in America without a car?
Ben Pfaff wrote:
writes: Here's an example: I lived in the SF bay area for several years. I requently had to fly out for business trips. The bay area has 2 major airports and 3 train systems. None of the train systems connect to either of the airports. Not true. BART connects to SFO. There is a free shuttle bus between Santa Clara Caltrain and SJC. (I never go to Oakland airport so no idea there.) There is a (free?) bus from Oakland airport to BART. BART was extended to SFO relatively recently, explaining the difference between you and the previous poster. Airports aren't a fatal problem, because there is usually private transportation even if not public - lots of travelers have to get to and from the airport without a car, even if they have one in the family, or just if they don't want to pay for two weeks of airport parking. In areas with something like Supershuttle, it's only moderately expensive. (Supershuttles drive me crazy, but they are a lot cheaper than taxis.) For trips that happen rarely, this kind of thing is acceptable. It's the everyday stuff that's annoying if you don't have a car. In the city where I grew up, poorer neighborhoods had informal jitney cabs that would do things like take people to the supermarket (which of course are rare in poorer neighborhoods) for less money than an official cab, and take them home too. The assumption that everyone has a car is both recent and often driven by affluence and suburbia. If you ask, "is it possible to live in America without a car?" the answer is obviously yes. If you ask, "is it possible to live a comfortable middle-class existence in America without a car?" it requires more special dedication. |
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Is it possible to live in America without a car?
In article ,
Matt O'Toole writes: * shop for food often, rather than weekly. It's better that way, anyway -- less accumulation of stuff I'll never eat, anyway, and fresher food. This is true. Most people rely too much on convenience foods, which take up too much space with all their packaging. I cook entirely from scratch, the only packaged goods being a few canned staples like tomatoes. So my grocery loads are very compact. They can be pretty heavy though! If I had further to go, panniers or a trailer would make sense. But I don't. Actually I don't mind making multiple grocery shopping trips. I get better quality stuff from specialty shops than from one-stop supermarkets, I can keep better track of my refrigerator/larder/spice rack inventory, I'm less likely to forget obtaining something, and riding is less of a chore when the loads aren't too heavy. By using this multiple-trip approach I've come to the conclusions that Leon's kosher chickens indeed make way better soup than Safeway chickens, and I can spend way too much money at The Cheese Place (but their wares are so irrisistable.) One of these days I've gotta check out the Red Square Bakery. Maybe treat myself to some potato & spinach & broccoli peroshkas, and a loaf or two of that ponderous Russian black rye bread. I don't mind making a 20Km round trip for just a loaf of good bread. cheers, Tom -- -- Nothing is safe from me. Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca |
#68
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Is it possible to live in America without a car?
Jasper Janssen wrote: On 2 Dec 2005 10:39:11 -0800, " wrote: Jasper Janssen wrote: On 1 Dec 2005 07:25:30 -0800, " wrote: Well, the car that I was on did get pushed both ways by an engine, I believe both the car and the engine were Turkish Rail or whatever they call themselves. The car, at least, continued on for the rest of the route after the passport check, but the rest of the train was hooked on first. I think Turkey-Greece relations may be a bit better since I was there. I came to Athens by ferry from Italy, and I can tell you that the Peloponnesos round-journey trains are pretty awful by comparison to those in the rest of Greece. Then the Athens - Salonika units definately have been replaced. The train to Salonika from the border was pretty grim. It looked better than some Egyptian trains I had seen but it was pretty obviously about ready for the scrap heap. Just like me except in the other direction. Mind you we had also had a 02:30 passport check that required all foreigners to disembark and stumble over to some office. Ah yes, that happened to me when I left Turkey again -- Istanbul to Bucharest-Romania via Bulgaria. I believe it was the Turkey/Bulgaria border. Most trains they just come by your compartment to check your bleary eyes and the hand holding your passport out to them. There, it's 2:30 or 3:30 or so, they wake you up (I got a sleeper cabin to myself for a few measly euros on top of the Interrail train card) and don't tell you that it's gonna be cold and you'd better put all your kit back on before marching out. Sounds familiar, but the weird thing was that we did this hours away from the Turkish-Greek border. I cannot remember if there was any kind of customs or immigration on the Greek side. I don't know where my old passport is so I cannot check to see if I actually got a stamp. Somehow I think I did at the post office. When I was there there was a post office /snack bar which I think was actually open. And a fountain and a monument to the fallen of a French infantry regiment. The monument with the fountain was at the Athens-side, road-side of the station wasn't it? I think I spotted that one. They did eventually open up a little counter with water and a few snacks and stale sandwiches in the station itself, but that was when it was getting pretty close to leaving time anyway. That's definately the place Pythos or something like that? I was there with an englishman teaching English as a Second Language in Istanbul who was in the same boat, so we took turns watching our bags so we could explore a little. About a kilometre down the road was the real town, which was just as sleepy. There was a small Byzantine stronghold there which was being restored with EU money. That was pretty much it. I didn't even find that. I must say the village reminded me of small Northen Ontario towns (villages) Never been there. Many of the houses in the village looked abandoned, actually. Depending on what town in Northern Ontario you're in that may be true too but it was more the slightly wild country side and the trees. Also I was there in late April and it was a bit chilly for me and that too reminded me of Northern Ontario. Oh, yes, and along the road between town and station were an awful lot of restaurants with large terraces out front, presumably for tables and chairs, that were utterly deserted. I finally managed to convince one of them to sell me some ice cream. Luxury. I think I got a coffee at the post office and finally got something to eat a the somewhat primative snackbar on the train. Well, I could even pay them with Euros, by then. It wasn't even particularly cheap. Unlike Turkey and Romania, incidentally (although when I was briefly in Budapest I was hitting relatively high prices again -- a hotel room with bath, both of which I really, really, really needed at that point, cost me the equivalent of 40 euros). Euros had not been invented when I was there. I think I managed to cash a cheque at the post office. For some stupid reason I forgot or it didn't occcur to me to get some drachmas before we pulled out of Istanbul. I ended up buying some emergency supplies at the Turkish border station on the other side, and arrived in Istanbul at midnight. I was lucky enough to find a tout at the station who could take me to a hostel right beside the station where I could have a private room for 10 euros a night, including breakfast, and I had a good time there. But jesus, is that Greek border town *boring*. Boring hardly comes close IIRC the only sign of life was a team of three men trying to move a freight car using pry bars. Not wildly stimulating. You had men working to watch? Luxury! Jasper John Kane, Kingston ON Canada |
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