FSA cranks, Cervelo frame, LOUD ticking

On 20/07/13 06:40, AMuzi wrote:

Modern frame materials are well known amplifiers of small staccato
noises like a failed bearing.


Absolutely. Most A graders in the Vets club have CFRP frames and CF
deep rims. I hear them changing gears a mile off as they rumble down
the road. I prefer smooth and sweet.

--
JS

On Friday, July 19, 2013 7:45:05 PM UTC-4, James wrote:

Absolutely. Most A graders in the Vets club have CFRP frames and CF

deep rims. I hear them changing gears a mile off as they rumble down

the road. I prefer smooth and sweet.

I watched a couple crit races last week. I was struck (again) by how different the sound of the pack is these days, compared to many years ago. Amplified is probably the right word.

- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, July 19, 2013 12:06:46 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, July 19, 2013 5:51:35 AM UTC-4, Lou Holtman wrote:

Op 19-7-2013 0:07, Frank Krygowski schreef:





Just curious if anyone here has experienced such a problem. And is Cervelo usually that uncooperative?





Uncooperative? What do you mean? Should they just send new parts to



everyone who hears a clicking sound, which in 90% of the cases is not



due to a defective part and often they suspect the wrong part? If that



guy expect that kind of service he should not buy a bike from a store



2500 miles away. As if I would buy a bike from a store in the North of



Finland.



I should mention, I met this guy for the first time yesterday; but he seemed like a very pleasant, rational fellow.



Regarding Cervelo's reaction to the initial failure, when the bike was very new, here's how another manufacturer handled something similar: We bought folding Bikes Friday maybe six years ago. When I took my wife's out of its packing box, I saw that the large chainring was somehow bent, probably during shipment. Now I'm perfectly capable of straightening a chainring, but I thought "that shouldn't be." I also had another minor question (not complaint) about the bike. So I phoned Bike Friday.



They first cleared up my other little question. Then, when I mentioned the chainring, the guy on the line immediately apologized and said they'd send me new one. There was no "send us the old one so we can verify" or "take it to an authorized dealer," and he didn't even want me to try to straighten it. Just "What's your address again?"



In the case of this guy's BB, I suppose one could say that they might not trust his diagnostic ability. But for several years now, we've had the capability of shooting and transmitting videos. More realistically, there are hundreds of capable bike shops closer than 2.5 hours drive. Cervelo's insistence that he take the bike ONLY to a distant, already-approved dealer, seems unreasonable to me.



I'm still curious about exactly what the mechanic is going to find when he does open things up. I'm betting on a cracked bearing cage, which I supposed he'll see only if he rips into a sealed bearing, just out of curiosity..



Sorry I didn't get the specific FSA crank model, BTW.



- Frank Krygowski

Many maufactures of many different things will tell you to take the item only to an authorized service department. Failure to use an authorized service department immediately voids any warranty. Why should Cervelo be any different than them? A far as I know Camaganolo still states to use n autorized service departement in order not to void the Camapagnolo warranty. Andrew, is Shimano the same?

Cheers

Frank Krygowski writes:

On Friday, July 19, 2013 5:51:35 AM UTC-4, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 19-7-2013 0:07, Frank Krygowski schreef:


Just curious if anyone here has experienced such a problem. And is Cervelo usually that uncooperative?


Uncooperative? What do you mean? Should they just send new parts to

everyone who hears a clicking sound, which in 90% of the cases is not

due to a defective part and often they suspect the wrong part? If that

guy expect that kind of service he should not buy a bike from a store

2500 miles away. As if I would buy a bike from a store in the North of

Finland.

I should mention, I met this guy for the first time yesterday; but he seemed like a very pleasant, rational fellow.

Regarding Cervelo's reaction to the initial failure, when the bike was very new, here's how another manufacturer handled something similar: We bought folding Bikes Friday maybe six years ago.


Bike Friday, Cervelo - 'nuff said.

When I took my wife's out of its packing box, I saw that the large chainring was somehow bent, probably during shipment. Now I'm perfectly capable of straightening a chainring, but I thought "that shouldn't be." I also had another minor question (not complaint) about the bike. So I phoned Bike Friday.


But your Cervelo guy bought a bike from a dealer (2500 miles
away?) and _put it into service_.

They first cleared up my other little question.

?

Then, when I mentioned the chainring, the guy on the line immediately apologized and said they'd send me new one. There was no "send us the old one so we can verify" or "take it to an authorized dealer," and he didn't even want me to try to straighten it. Just "What's your address again?"


Presumably they had the sales and shipping records, and could
easily see that you'd *just* bought two (2) complete bikes and
the last thing they want to do is turn off that kind of
customer. Also, they may know this kind of thing can happen
to bikes they ship.

In the case of this guy's BB, I suppose one could say that they might not trust his diagnostic ability.


Well, he was dropping the chain and getting rocks stuck in
his pedal - and he was riding with you... Maybe they thought
his name was "Fred".

But for several years now, we've had the capability of shooting and transmitting videos. More realistically, there are hundreds of capable bike shops closer than 2.5 hours drive. Cervelo's insistence that he take the bike ONLY to a distant, already-approved dealer, seems unreasonable to me.


Who's had the capability of shooting and transmitting
videos?

(I can see it now - a new racket creating videos and
editing sound and image effects to get new bike parts
from "cooperative" manufacturers.)

Cervelo sells expensive stuff, right? I'm guessing the guy
didn't even know what he wanted them to do - just complaining
and expecting them to make him happy.

Obviously, he should sell his Cervelo and get a Bike Friday.

Seriously? "My bike is making a ticking noise?" Come on!
You know the drill.

You said he dropped the chain on his CFRP bike? Yikes!
You don't suppose the authorized Cervelo shop sees bikes
that Freds have broken the frame on, resulting in ticking
noises, do you? You don't suppose they might want to have
a look at it, do you?

I'm still curious about exactly what the mechanic is going to find when he does open things up. I'm betting on a cracked bearing cage, which I supposed he'll see only if he rips into a sealed bearing, just out of curiosity.


We're curious, too - and then I see that later in this thread
you say something about the repair being done - but not what
it was.

Sorry I didn't get the specific FSA crank model, BTW.


It's the one with that goes 'round and 'round, right?

Dan writes:

Frank Krygowski writes:

On Friday, July 19, 2013 5:51:35 AM UTC-4, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 19-7-2013 0:07, Frank Krygowski schreef:


Just curious if anyone here has experienced such a problem. And is Cervelo usually that uncooperative?


Uncooperative? What do you mean? Should they just send new parts to

everyone who hears a clicking sound, which in 90% of the cases is not

due to a defective part and often they suspect the wrong part? If that

guy expect that kind of service he should not buy a bike from a store

2500 miles away. As if I would buy a bike from a store in the North of

Finland.

I should mention, I met this guy for the first time yesterday; but he seemed like a very pleasant, rational fellow.

Regarding Cervelo's reaction to the initial failure, when the bike was very new, here's how another manufacturer handled something similar: We bought folding Bikes Friday maybe six years ago.


Bike Friday, Cervelo - 'nuff said.

When I took my wife's out of its packing box, I saw that the large chainring was somehow bent, probably during shipment. Now I'm perfectly capable of straightening a chainring, but I thought "that shouldn't be." I also had another minor question (not complaint) about the bike. So I phoned Bike Friday.


But your Cervelo guy bought a bike from a dealer (2500 miles
away?) and _put it into service_.

They first cleared up my other little question.

?

Then, when I mentioned the chainring, the guy on the line immediately apologized and said they'd send me new one. There was no "send us the old one so we can verify" or "take it to an authorized dealer," and he didn't even want me to try to straighten it. Just "What's your address again?"


Presumably they had the sales and shipping records, and could
easily see that you'd *just* bought two (2) complete bikes and
the last thing they want to do is turn off that kind of
customer. Also, they may know this kind of thing can happen
to bikes they ship.

In the case of this guy's BB, I suppose one could say that they might not trust his diagnostic ability.


Well, he was dropping the chain and getting rocks stuck in
his pedal - and he was riding with you... Maybe they thought
his name was "Fred".

But for several years now, we've had the capability of shooting and transmitting videos. More realistically, there are hundreds of capable bike shops closer than 2.5 hours drive. Cervelo's insistence that he take the bike ONLY to a distant, already-approved dealer, seems unreasonable to me.


Who's had the capability of shooting and transmitting
videos?

(I can see it now - a new racket creating videos and
editing sound and image effects to get new bike parts
from "cooperative" manufacturers.)

Cervelo sells expensive stuff, right? I'm guessing the guy
didn't even know what he wanted them to do - just complaining
and expecting them to make him happy.

Obviously, he should sell his Cervelo and get a Bike Friday.

Seriously? "My bike is making a ticking noise?" Come on!
You know the drill.

You said he dropped the chain on his CFRP bike? Yikes!
You don't suppose the authorized Cervelo shop sees bikes
that Freds have broken the frame on, resulting in ticking
noises, do you? You don't suppose they might want to have
a look at it, do you?

I'm still curious about exactly what the mechanic is going to find when he does open things up. I'm betting on a cracked bearing cage, which I supposed he'll see only if he rips into a sealed bearing, just out of curiosity.


We're curious, too - and then I see that later in this thread
you say something about the repair being done - but not what
it was.



Ah, so this is a problem that *recurred* in less than a
year? Not likely worn or faulty BB or crank, eh?

And the manufacturer is oncooperative because they don't
just keep shipping the guy new crankset / BB's?

Sorry I didn't get the specific FSA crank model, BTW.


It's the one with that goes 'round and 'round, right?

On Friday, July 19, 2013 8:51:45 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, July 18, 2013 11:45:37 PM UTC-4, Jay Beattie wrote:



These are very easy to replace. I don't know why this would be so perplexing for your friend or a challenge for any LBS. Get a $30 BB and a wrench and fix it.



Well, I doubt it was perplexing for the shop he took the bike to. Since he (apparently) never considered doing the work himself, I'm assuming he's just not a guy who works on his own bike.



His perplexation (is that a word?) was generated by the fact that he expected his cranks/spindle/bearings/whatever would not cause so much trouble so soon. Oh, and you could tell he was still ****ed at Cervelo from his treatment after the original failure. (More in my response to Lou, below.)



My perplexation (or curiosity) was not only on the supposedly short service life, but on the amazing loudness of the constant clicking. Even turning the cranks on the stationary bike, it sounded and felt like someone was tapping on the frame with a small hammer.

By the way, you can get some serious clicking with Octalink and ISIS cranks if they come loose. The interface can get shot, but you can still tighten it up -- but it will come loose again, and then you get the clicking again.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, July 21, 2013 12:31:13 AM UTC-4, Jay Beattie wrote:

By the way, you can get some serious clicking with Octalink and ISIS cranks if they come loose. The interface can get shot, but you can still tighten it up -- but it will come loose again, and then you get the clicking again.


You're talking about the splines, right?

I wondered about that (and wondered if anyone would mention it). But I figured that would probably happen only under load, not when the rear wheel was raised and the bike was cranked by hand. Thoughts on that?

- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, July 21, 2013 7:46:04 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, July 21, 2013 12:31:13 AM UTC-4, Jay Beattie wrote:



By the way, you can get some serious clicking with Octalink and ISIS cranks if they come loose. The interface can get shot, but you can still tighten it up -- but it will come loose again, and then you get the clicking again.





You're talking about the splines, right?



I wondered about that (and wondered if anyone would mention it). But I figured that would probably happen only under load, not when the rear wheel was raised and the bike was cranked by hand. Thoughts on that?

You can get clicking with relatively low torque, but I don't know if you can with just hand pressure with the wheel up. If it's really loose, you can feel it in the crank arm.

Octalink (Shimano) and ISIS were both splined patterns, but the Shimano implementation had more durable bearings. Outboard bearings have been far more durable, and they're cheap-ish. I have press-fit BB30 on one bike, and it's too early to tell how long those bearings will last. Tool investment is higher for BB30.

I've been riding aluminum frames for almost 30 years now (starting with 1984 first generation Cannondale), and there is almost always some clicking -- even in the days of cup and cone and then square drive sealed units. The BB30 on my CAAD 9 has been very quiet -- but I also installed the bearings with some mid-strength sleeve/bearing retainer, so they may be a bitch to get out.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, 21 July 2013 15:46:04 UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, July 21, 2013 12:31:13 AM UTC-4, Jay Beattie wrote:



By the way, you can get some serious clicking with Octalink and ISIS cranks if they come loose. The interface can get shot, but you can still tighten it up -- but it will come loose again, and then you get the clicking again.





You're talking about the splines, right?



I wondered about that (and wondered if anyone would mention it). But I figured that would probably happen only under load, not when the rear wheel was raised and the bike was cranked by hand. Thoughts on that?


I'll give them for a silver penny.