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So Long Tubulars?



 
 
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  #121  
Old July 15th 19, 02:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 347
Default So Long Tubulars?

On 15/07/2019 8:57 a.m., AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 8:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 19:44:42 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/14/2019 6:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 4:33:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 5:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:47:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 3:22 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 5:24:57 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 4:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT),
"
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John
B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

.*** Oh, you mean this guy:

********** Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
********** 3539 Monterey Blvd
********** San Alejandro CA94578
********** 510) 351-3807

**********
http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

********** I thought we had gotten over him, now that
we have other
contributors**** who are equally rude and obnoxious,
always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come
to mind.

********** Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread.* But
looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining
about is only 61 when written.* I am pretty sure ALL of
the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that
old.* I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young
anymore.* Sadly.* Its very depressing that everyone is
so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old
and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous
with age, and
Brandt* describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and
always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr.* born November 20, 1942, ex V.P

I read that:

"Whatever else one thinks of Joe Biden, the speech he
delivered in New
York on Thursday showed him to be the only Democratic
candidate with
his own vision on foreign policy and a full understanding
of just how
badly President Donald Trump's vision is damaging U.S.
interests and
values around the world."
_________________________

***** From here it is easy to see the results of the
Trump "foreign policy"
in other countries and one thing that is happening is that
more and
more exports, and likely imports, from at least Thailand
and Cambodia
are going to China now as opposed to the U.S. And China is
funneling
money into both countries both in the form of low cost
loans and by
opening manufacturing businesses which, of course,
contributes to the
local economy both in the form of taxes and by employing
more locals.

Even Australia, the news yesterday recently, is
considering developing
nuclear weapons as the U.S. foreign policy seems to be
very "wobbly"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/17...uclear-weapons




I see in today's paper that for 2019 US imports from China
are down 13% while imports from ROK are up 13%, from ROC up
23%, from Vietnam up 37% and so on.

Only one of the aforementioned countries has four
supercarrier keels down with a goal of challenging USN.

--
Andrew Muzi
****** www.yellowjersey.org/
****** Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My website search has a slightly different number.

"The Associated Press reported Friday that Chinese imports
from the U.S. were down 31.4 percent from the same time last
year, U.S. imports from China dropped by a far lower rate
â€â€* down just 7.8 percent
over last year."

So it seems Trump has made the trade war much worse with his
actions.* We are hurting China by buying 7.8% less of their
goods.* Yeah Trump.* But hurting USA companies even more by
selling 31.4% less to China.* I'm sure for 3-4 time bankrupt
Trump that means he is winning.* Cut off China's pinky
finger.* Cut off the USA hand.* Winning!!!

Another economist steps forward with his educated ideas. We
are buying less from China because Americans are buying more
from America. This probably is something you cannot fathom.
Moreover, since we are keeping more money in America we have
less need to sell to foreign countries.

That doesn't even make sense. We're not buying significantly
more American products because most of the products from China
apart from steel are no longer manufactured here, like most
things at Walmart. We're now buying that stuff from ROC,
Vietnam, Toadsuckistan -- or the same Chinese stuff is being
rerouted through those countries. Just as much money is
leaving the country, but its going different places.* And more
money is leaving American pockets to pay the tariffs.
http://money.com/money/5646202/costc...ina-trade-war/
Also, tell the farmers about "not needing" to sell to foreign
countries. Your tax dollars are now bailing them out.* More
farm welfare to promote over-production.

BTW, you don't have any idea of how quickly a US-based company
can shift production to another country. Your MAGA hat and
Donald Trump tie are now made in Viet Nam instead of China. I
ride regularly with two executives who have domestic companies
with manufacturing in China.* For one, it took only a few
months to shift the whole operation to Viet Nam.

China should be spanked for its anti-competitive conduct and
misappropriation of US IP, but don't think the dopey tariff
war is the way to do it.* Tariffs are just how Trump is
filling budget holes with the massive reduction in the
corporate rate and other give-aways to the rich and famous.
Once again, ordinary Joe pays.

-- Jay Beattie.







China HAS made a commitment to partake seriously in trade
treaty negotiations.

It's plain that you don't understand anything about anything
like all of the other idiot millennials.


+1 nicely done.

That said, what do you suggest after several successive
POTUSes and Congresses have ignored the problems? As with
the open-border mess, he's left with only a hammer which
doesn't make the problem into a nail; he just likes pounding.

I don't have an answer either, but to the extent that Xi
doesn't like tariffs and the domestic China economy has
weakened, I'll reflect on it before screaming.


Andy, how much of your business is Chinese?* I don't mean
selling to Chinese customers or employing Chinese bike
mechanics.* But of all the products you sell, how much is made
in China?* I think almost all Shimano products are Chinese
made.* FSA and most of the other brands are Chinese.* I think
Campagnolo makes their stuff in China too.* Except for a few
boutique high dollar frames, China.* Tires and tubes are China.
I think Korea, Thailand, Vietnam get some of the business too.
The parts portion of the bike industry is Chinese.* Love it,
hate it.* But that is reality today.* Your service sales are
USA.* Guessing you are not employing too many illegal immigrants
who snuck down from Canada.* And that kind of illustrates a big
trend in USA business over the past number of decades.* USA
exports to the rest of the world is services.* Not manufactured
products.* We are selling minds and ideas and services and
people.* Not factory stuff.* The cheap dumb backward countries
are m

ak
in
g
the stuff.* I've seen articles on the trade imbalance.* When you
add in services the USA sells to the rest of the world, the trade
imbalance drops a lot.* Its not much of an imbalance at all.* But
that does not make as good a headline and isn't as easy to grasp
for the uneducated masses.* "THEY sell more stuff to us than THEY
buy from us.* Bad bad bad."


Less than you imagine.

None of our own products are made in China now.* For only
$11,000 I replaced a $3000 chinese injection mold tool with
one made 25 miles from here four years ago. That ended our
final China vendor[1].

Vredestein tubes are probably made in Netherlands (packaging
is unclear). Michelin are Serbia and Thailand. Campagnolo is
Italy & Romania with wheels from Taiwan ROC. Shimano from
Japan & Malaysia. I spend a very small amount of time
consciously choosing Taiwan ROC product over PRC wherever I
can, such as Sun Race and Kenda product.

Waterford/Gunnar and SOMA are non-Chinese but Bianchi sadly
has some in the mix now.* Which is very noticeable at build
between PRC and ROC bikes BTW.

Could a guy make a few extra $$ selling PRC product over
Velocity USA & SOMA rims? Sure. And I don't judge them. For
me, it's not worthwhile.

[1] It's not all patriotism. Over 15 or so years I was
unable to find one honest man doing business in The Middle
Kingdom. Not the only factor but an expensive one.



I got an email that I had received some of those rear derailleur
jockey wheels from China. Damned if I could find them. I had
received several packages that day but not those parts.

When I contacted the vendor in China essentially what he said was
"We sent it to the address given and USPS said they delivered it."
I was about to get mad and file a complaint. But then I thought -
there was so little money involved and those people in the PRC
have so little I'm not going to complain. A couple of days later I
saw a small plastic envelope sticking between the sofa cushions
and it was my order. It must have been between two of the large
packages and fallen into the crack.

The moral is, don't be too fast to judge.


"We need another run of that product"
****"You need to cut a new tool"
"But we own a tool, you made it a year ago"
****"Uh, we lost it. You need a new one"

I bought a Bob Jackson for my oldest step-daughter from Stone's
Cyclery in Alameda in the late 90's. She took it across the US and
also ran the Jr. Nationals one year.

It's been sitting out in a shed for the last 20 years or so and the
headset was seized solid. I took TriFlow and a hammer to it to free
it up enough to take in to Robinson's Wheelworks in town here. Robby
started out as apprentice to Dennis Stone. I bought a replacement
headset and took it with the BJ into Robby's to have it replaced.

Without even looking he knew that the headset was 27.2 (?) and that
the normal headset base is 26.8 (? those sure sound like seat posts
to me but what the heck). Robby STILL has the tools made in 1070's
to face BJ's down to the standard size. All of his tools look like
they are brand new. All of the cutting edges you have to be careful
with or they will cut you.

Would you rather buy a tool good for 2 years and then needs
replacement or one that is like new after 50 years? I can't even get
decent metric hex wrenches anymore. I still have some old Snap-on
ratchet ends that look like new. All of the stuff I buy now rounds
off to the point that I don't like using them on bicycles.


I am no stranger to purchase, care, sharpening, TiN coatings
and storage of expensive machine cutters:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG


Question: Did you have those "plated" (for want of a better word) and
is so what is the cost? And is the cost* based on square inches to be
covered?

I am assuming* that you would deliver the tool reasonably clean and
they would do some sort of "super cleaning" prior to "plating".

A 500,000-cycle plastic injection mold tool is really
expensive. Never ever had one 'lost' in Japan or USA. The
client's tool is normally stored between runs as part of the
normal business.

--
cheers,

John B.


They go from the sharpening service directly to the vapor deposition
house. It's titanium nitride of few microns or so about $30 per piece.
Beyond that for a higher fee you can buy other even harder coatings now.

typical example:
http://www.praxairsurfacetechnologie...por-deposition



It's more case hardening than plating. Google "Nitriding White Layer"
Ads
  #122  
Old July 15th 19, 03:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,283
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 8:57:39 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 8:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 19:44:42 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/14/2019 6:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 4:33:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 5:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:47:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 3:22 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 5:24:57 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 4:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

. Oh, you mean this guy:

Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
3539 Monterey Blvd
San Alejandro CA94578
510) 351-3807

http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

I thought we had gotten over him, now that we have other
contributors who are equally rude and obnoxious, always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come to mind.

Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread. But looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining about is only 61 when written. I am pretty sure ALL of the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that old. I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young anymore. Sadly.. Its very depressing that everyone is so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous with age, and
Brandt describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. born November 20, 1942, ex V.P

I read that:

"Whatever else one thinks of Joe Biden, the speech he delivered in New
York on Thursday showed him to be the only Democratic candidate with
his own vision on foreign policy and a full understanding of just how
badly President Donald Trump's vision is damaging U.S. interests and
values around the world."
_________________________

From here it is easy to see the results of the Trump "foreign policy"
in other countries and one thing that is happening is that more and
more exports, and likely imports, from at least Thailand and Cambodia
are going to China now as opposed to the U.S. And China is funneling
money into both countries both in the form of low cost loans and by
opening manufacturing businesses which, of course, contributes to the
local economy both in the form of taxes and by employing more locals.

Even Australia, the news yesterday recently, is considering developing
nuclear weapons as the U.S. foreign policy seems to be very "wobbly"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/17...uclear-weapons



I see in today's paper that for 2019 US imports from China
are down 13% while imports from ROK are up 13%, from ROC up
23%, from Vietnam up 37% and so on.

Only one of the aforementioned countries has four
supercarrier keels down with a goal of challenging USN.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My website search has a slightly different number.

"The Associated Press reported Friday that Chinese imports from the U.S. were down 31.4 percent from the same time last year, U.S. imports from China dropped by a far lower rate ††down just 7.8 percent over last year."

So it seems Trump has made the trade war much worse with his actions. We are hurting China by buying 7.8% less of their goods. Yeah Trump. But hurting USA companies even more by selling 31.4% less to China. I'm sure for 3-4 time bankrupt Trump that means he is winning. Cut off China's pinky finger. Cut off the USA hand. Winning!!!

Another economist steps forward with his educated ideas. We are buying less from China because Americans are buying more from America. This probably is something you cannot fathom. Moreover, since we are keeping more money in America we have less need to sell to foreign countries.

That doesn't even make sense. We're not buying significantly more American products because most of the products from China apart from steel are no longer manufactured here, like most things at Walmart. We're now buying that stuff from ROC, Vietnam, Toadsuckistan -- or the same Chinese stuff is being rerouted through those countries. Just as much money is leaving the country, but its going different places. And more money is leaving American pockets to pay the tariffs. http://money.com/money/5646202/costc...ina-trade-war/ Also, tell the farmers about "not needing" to sell to foreign countries. Your tax dollars are now bailing them out. More farm welfare to promote over-production.

BTW, you don't have any idea of how quickly a US-based company can shift production to another country. Your MAGA hat and Donald Trump tie are now made in Viet Nam instead of China. I ride regularly with two executives who have domestic companies with manufacturing in China. For one, it took only a few months to shift the whole operation to Viet Nam.

China should be spanked for its anti-competitive conduct and misappropriation of US IP, but don't think the dopey tariff war is the way to do it. Tariffs are just how Trump is filling budget holes with the massive reduction in the corporate rate and other give-aways to the rich and famous. Once again, ordinary Joe pays.

-- Jay Beattie.







China HAS made a commitment to partake seriously in trade treaty negotiations.

It's plain that you don't understand anything about anything like all of the other idiot millennials.


+1 nicely done.

That said, what do you suggest after several successive
POTUSes and Congresses have ignored the problems? As with
the open-border mess, he's left with only a hammer which
doesn't make the problem into a nail; he just likes pounding.

I don't have an answer either, but to the extent that Xi
doesn't like tariffs and the domestic China economy has
weakened, I'll reflect on it before screaming.


Andy, how much of your business is Chinese? I don't mean selling to Chinese customers or employing Chinese bike mechanics. But of all the products you sell, how much is made in China? I think almost all Shimano products are Chinese made. FSA and most of the other brands are Chinese. I think Campagnolo makes their stuff in China too. Except for a few boutique high dollar frames, China. Tires and tubes are China. I think Korea, Thailand, Vietnam get some of the business too. The parts portion of the bike industry is Chinese. Love it, hate it. But that is reality today. Your service sales are USA. Guessing you are not employing too many illegal immigrants who snuck down from Canada. And that kind of illustrates a big trend in USA business over the past number of decades. USA exports to the rest of the world is services. Not manufactured products. We are selling minds and ideas and services and people. Not factory stuff. The cheap dumb backward countries are m

ak
in
g
the stuff. I've seen articles on the trade imbalance. When you add in services the USA sells to the rest of the world, the trade imbalance drops a lot. Its not much of an imbalance at all. But that does not make as good a headline and isn't as easy to grasp for the uneducated masses. "THEY sell more stuff to us than THEY buy from us. Bad bad bad."


Less than you imagine.

None of our own products are made in China now. For only
$11,000 I replaced a $3000 chinese injection mold tool with
one made 25 miles from here four years ago. That ended our
final China vendor[1].

Vredestein tubes are probably made in Netherlands (packaging
is unclear). Michelin are Serbia and Thailand. Campagnolo is
Italy & Romania with wheels from Taiwan ROC. Shimano from
Japan & Malaysia. I spend a very small amount of time
consciously choosing Taiwan ROC product over PRC wherever I
can, such as Sun Race and Kenda product.

Waterford/Gunnar and SOMA are non-Chinese but Bianchi sadly
has some in the mix now. Which is very noticeable at build
between PRC and ROC bikes BTW.

Could a guy make a few extra $$ selling PRC product over
Velocity USA & SOMA rims? Sure. And I don't judge them. For
me, it's not worthwhile.

[1] It's not all patriotism. Over 15 or so years I was
unable to find one honest man doing business in The Middle
Kingdom. Not the only factor but an expensive one.



I got an email that I had received some of those rear derailleur jockey wheels from China. Damned if I could find them. I had received several packages that day but not those parts.

When I contacted the vendor in China essentially what he said was "We sent it to the address given and USPS said they delivered it." I was about to get mad and file a complaint. But then I thought - there was so little money involved and those people in the PRC have so little I'm not going to complain. A couple of days later I saw a small plastic envelope sticking between the sofa cushions and it was my order. It must have been between two of the large packages and fallen into the crack.

The moral is, don't be too fast to judge.


"We need another run of that product"
"You need to cut a new tool"
"But we own a tool, you made it a year ago"
"Uh, we lost it. You need a new one"

I bought a Bob Jackson for my oldest step-daughter from Stone's Cyclery in Alameda in the late 90's. She took it across the US and also ran the Jr. Nationals one year.

It's been sitting out in a shed for the last 20 years or so and the headset was seized solid. I took TriFlow and a hammer to it to free it up enough to take in to Robinson's Wheelworks in town here. Robby started out as apprentice to Dennis Stone. I bought a replacement headset and took it with the BJ into Robby's to have it replaced.

Without even looking he knew that the headset was 27.2 (?) and that the normal headset base is 26.8 (? those sure sound like seat posts to me but what the heck). Robby STILL has the tools made in 1070's to face BJ's down to the standard size. All of his tools look like they are brand new. All of the cutting edges you have to be careful with or they will cut you.

Would you rather buy a tool good for 2 years and then needs replacement or one that is like new after 50 years? I can't even get decent metric hex wrenches anymore. I still have some old Snap-on ratchet ends that look like new. All of the stuff I buy now rounds off to the point that I don't like using them on bicycles.


I am no stranger to purchase, care, sharpening, TiN coatings
and storage of expensive machine cutters:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG


Question: Did you have those "plated" (for want of a better word) and
is so what is the cost? And is the cost based on square inches to be
covered?

I am assuming that you would deliver the tool reasonably clean and
they would do some sort of "super cleaning" prior to "plating".

A 500,000-cycle plastic injection mold tool is really
expensive. Never ever had one 'lost' in Japan or USA. The
client's tool is normally stored between runs as part of the
normal business.

--
cheers,

John B.


They go from the sharpening service directly to the vapor
deposition house. It's titanium nitride of few microns or so
about $30 per piece. Beyond that for a higher fee you can
buy other even harder coatings now.


AFAIK, gold bike chains have just a cosmetic coating. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
But I wonder how long a TiN coated chain - pins, rollers, all the bits - would
last. Ditto TiN coated cogs. Or do these things exist already?

- Frank Krygowski
  #123  
Old July 15th 19, 03:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 598
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 5:33:29 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 7/14/2019 2:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 05:14:22 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot



Seems to me that you must care give a rats ass what Tom thinks or you wouldn't be posting so many replies to him. VBEG LOL ;)

Cheers


I agree that I probably do post an excessive number of replies to Tom.
But I find it interesting to see just how far he will squirm to avoid
admitting that he really did post some utter B.S.

I also find it interesting to see just how far fetched some of his
fantasies are. Given that the U.S. education system is far from being
the worst in the world I would have considered it very unlikely that
anyone educated in the U.S. could deny history to the extent that Tom
does.


The US has a long and fraught relationship with intellectual rigor. For
all its advancements in public education, there has been and remains a
strong and stubborn anti-intellectual thread in its history. I'm not
talking about anti-intellectualism that improperly appreciates art, I'm
talking about anti-intellectualism that, at its more extreme ends, still
insists the earth is flat. Look at any current newspaper to fill in the
gap between those extremes. A great many USians could take a long walk
in the sea of knowledge and barely get their feet wet, at least if you
believe they mean half the things they say.

Speaking as someone who spent his career in US higher education, you can
educate the ignorant, sometimes you can educate against stupidity, but
you just can't educate against willful ignorance - which fortunately I
saw relatively little of at a selective private university.

Mark J.


Mark, you are a product of the Internet. You think that there are significant numbers of these extremists. Throughout history there have always been people that are extremists one way or the other and the percentage of these in the general population today are not even in the same category.
  #124  
Old July 15th 19, 04:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 598
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 7:37:08 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 8:57:39 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 8:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 19:44:42 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/14/2019 6:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 4:33:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 5:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:47:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 3:22 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 5:24:57 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 4:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

. Oh, you mean this guy:

Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
3539 Monterey Blvd
San Alejandro CA94578
510) 351-3807

http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

I thought we had gotten over him, now that we have other
contributors who are equally rude and obnoxious, always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come to mind.

Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread. But looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining about is only 61 when written. I am pretty sure ALL of the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that old. I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young anymore. Sadly. Its very depressing that everyone is so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous with age, and
Brandt describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. born November 20, 1942, ex V.P

I read that:

"Whatever else one thinks of Joe Biden, the speech he delivered in New
York on Thursday showed him to be the only Democratic candidate with
his own vision on foreign policy and a full understanding of just how
badly President Donald Trump's vision is damaging U.S. interests and
values around the world."
_________________________

From here it is easy to see the results of the Trump "foreign policy"
in other countries and one thing that is happening is that more and
more exports, and likely imports, from at least Thailand and Cambodia
are going to China now as opposed to the U.S. And China is funneling
money into both countries both in the form of low cost loans and by
opening manufacturing businesses which, of course, contributes to the
local economy both in the form of taxes and by employing more locals.

Even Australia, the news yesterday recently, is considering developing
nuclear weapons as the U.S. foreign policy seems to be very "wobbly"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/17...uclear-weapons



I see in today's paper that for 2019 US imports from China
are down 13% while imports from ROK are up 13%, from ROC up
23%, from Vietnam up 37% and so on.

Only one of the aforementioned countries has four
supercarrier keels down with a goal of challenging USN.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My website search has a slightly different number.

"The Associated Press reported Friday that Chinese imports from the U.S. were down 31.4 percent from the same time last year, U.S. imports from China dropped by a far lower rate ††down just 7.8 percent over last year."

So it seems Trump has made the trade war much worse with his actions. We are hurting China by buying 7.8% less of their goods. Yeah Trump. But hurting USA companies even more by selling 31.4% less to China. I'm sure for 3-4 time bankrupt Trump that means he is winning. Cut off China's pinky finger. Cut off the USA hand. Winning!!!

Another economist steps forward with his educated ideas. We are buying less from China because Americans are buying more from America. This probably is something you cannot fathom. Moreover, since we are keeping more money in America we have less need to sell to foreign countries.

That doesn't even make sense. We're not buying significantly more American products because most of the products from China apart from steel are no longer manufactured here, like most things at Walmart. We're now buying that stuff from ROC, Vietnam, Toadsuckistan -- or the same Chinese stuff is being rerouted through those countries. Just as much money is leaving the country, but its going different places. And more money is leaving American pockets to pay the tariffs. http://money.com/money/5646202/costc...ina-trade-war/ Also, tell the farmers about "not needing" to sell to foreign countries. Your tax dollars are now bailing them out. More farm welfare to promote over-production.

BTW, you don't have any idea of how quickly a US-based company can shift production to another country. Your MAGA hat and Donald Trump tie are now made in Viet Nam instead of China. I ride regularly with two executives who have domestic companies with manufacturing in China. For one, it took only a few months to shift the whole operation to Viet Nam.

China should be spanked for its anti-competitive conduct and misappropriation of US IP, but don't think the dopey tariff war is the way to do it. Tariffs are just how Trump is filling budget holes with the massive reduction in the corporate rate and other give-aways to the rich and famous. Once again, ordinary Joe pays.

-- Jay Beattie.







China HAS made a commitment to partake seriously in trade treaty negotiations.

It's plain that you don't understand anything about anything like all of the other idiot millennials.


+1 nicely done.

That said, what do you suggest after several successive
POTUSes and Congresses have ignored the problems? As with
the open-border mess, he's left with only a hammer which
doesn't make the problem into a nail; he just likes pounding.

I don't have an answer either, but to the extent that Xi
doesn't like tariffs and the domestic China economy has
weakened, I'll reflect on it before screaming.


Andy, how much of your business is Chinese? I don't mean selling to Chinese customers or employing Chinese bike mechanics. But of all the products you sell, how much is made in China? I think almost all Shimano products are Chinese made. FSA and most of the other brands are Chinese. I think Campagnolo makes their stuff in China too. Except for a few boutique high dollar frames, China. Tires and tubes are China. I think Korea, Thailand, Vietnam get some of the business too. The parts portion of the bike industry is Chinese. Love it, hate it. But that is reality today. Your service sales are USA. Guessing you are not employing too many illegal immigrants who snuck down from Canada. And that kind of illustrates a big trend in USA business over the past number of decades. USA exports to the rest of the world is services. Not manufactured products. We are selling minds and ideas and services and people. Not factory stuff. The cheap dumb backward countries are m

ak
in
g
the stuff. I've seen articles on the trade imbalance. When you add in services the USA sells to the rest of the world, the trade imbalance drops a lot. Its not much of an imbalance at all. But that does not make as good a headline and isn't as easy to grasp for the uneducated masses. "THEY sell more stuff to us than THEY buy from us. Bad bad bad."


Less than you imagine.

None of our own products are made in China now. For only
$11,000 I replaced a $3000 chinese injection mold tool with
one made 25 miles from here four years ago. That ended our
final China vendor[1].

Vredestein tubes are probably made in Netherlands (packaging
is unclear). Michelin are Serbia and Thailand. Campagnolo is
Italy & Romania with wheels from Taiwan ROC. Shimano from
Japan & Malaysia. I spend a very small amount of time
consciously choosing Taiwan ROC product over PRC wherever I
can, such as Sun Race and Kenda product.

Waterford/Gunnar and SOMA are non-Chinese but Bianchi sadly
has some in the mix now. Which is very noticeable at build
between PRC and ROC bikes BTW.

Could a guy make a few extra $$ selling PRC product over
Velocity USA & SOMA rims? Sure. And I don't judge them. For
me, it's not worthwhile.

[1] It's not all patriotism. Over 15 or so years I was
unable to find one honest man doing business in The Middle
Kingdom. Not the only factor but an expensive one.



I got an email that I had received some of those rear derailleur jockey wheels from China. Damned if I could find them. I had received several packages that day but not those parts.

When I contacted the vendor in China essentially what he said was "We sent it to the address given and USPS said they delivered it." I was about to get mad and file a complaint. But then I thought - there was so little money involved and those people in the PRC have so little I'm not going to complain. A couple of days later I saw a small plastic envelope sticking between the sofa cushions and it was my order. It must have been between two of the large packages and fallen into the crack.

The moral is, don't be too fast to judge.


"We need another run of that product"
"You need to cut a new tool"
"But we own a tool, you made it a year ago"
"Uh, we lost it. You need a new one"

I bought a Bob Jackson for my oldest step-daughter from Stone's Cyclery in Alameda in the late 90's. She took it across the US and also ran the Jr. Nationals one year.

It's been sitting out in a shed for the last 20 years or so and the headset was seized solid. I took TriFlow and a hammer to it to free it up enough to take in to Robinson's Wheelworks in town here. Robby started out as apprentice to Dennis Stone. I bought a replacement headset and took it with the BJ into Robby's to have it replaced.

Without even looking he knew that the headset was 27.2 (?) and that the normal headset base is 26.8 (? those sure sound like seat posts to me but what the heck). Robby STILL has the tools made in 1070's to face BJ's down to the standard size. All of his tools look like they are brand new. All of the cutting edges you have to be careful with or they will cut you.

Would you rather buy a tool good for 2 years and then needs replacement or one that is like new after 50 years? I can't even get decent metric hex wrenches anymore. I still have some old Snap-on ratchet ends that look like new. All of the stuff I buy now rounds off to the point that I don't like using them on bicycles.


I am no stranger to purchase, care, sharpening, TiN coatings
and storage of expensive machine cutters:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG

Question: Did you have those "plated" (for want of a better word) and
is so what is the cost? And is the cost based on square inches to be
covered?

I am assuming that you would deliver the tool reasonably clean and
they would do some sort of "super cleaning" prior to "plating".

A 500,000-cycle plastic injection mold tool is really
expensive. Never ever had one 'lost' in Japan or USA. The
client's tool is normally stored between runs as part of the
normal business.
--
cheers,

John B.


They go from the sharpening service directly to the vapor
deposition house. It's titanium nitride of few microns or so
about $30 per piece. Beyond that for a higher fee you can
buy other even harder coatings now.


AFAIK, gold bike chains have just a cosmetic coating. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
But I wonder how long a TiN coated chain - pins, rollers, all the bits - would
last. Ditto TiN coated cogs. Or do these things exist already?

- Frank Krygowski


In my experience it isn't cosmetic. The one's I've bought haven't shown significant wear since I installed them thousands of miles ago.

The chain wear tool can show NOTHNG.

One problem - the titanium cassette came with an aluminum lockring that will not remain locked. I've ordered a second party aluminum lockring since my memory is that is that I didn't have any problems with those before.

I'm installing all of the light stuff on my steel bikes so that I can honestly compare them with the Colnago. My 62 cm Pinarello is presently only a lb and a half heavier than the Colnago and I took it over a climb yesterday that has 400 meters of climbing (1,300 ft) in a single mile. About half way up there was a woman pushing her bike and I had to tell her that she couldn't mount on something that steep. Her friend was ahead in a driveway and she could mount on the more or less flat and then enter the road and start up again in low gear instead of a 39-21.

I'm intending to re-finish the Basso and it is a little lighter than the Pinarello to start with. I will put lighter stuff still on it - titanium railed Prologo saddle, etc.

I was going to buy shorter spokes to get sufficient spoke tension on the tubeless wheels but then it occurred to me that I have so much to do that I should turn those wheels over to Robinson's Wheelworks. He would be a getter judge of whether you get any significant improvement with aero spokes on a 55 mm deep rim or the lighter round spokes are better for climbing wheels.
  #125  
Old July 15th 19, 06:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,598
Default So Long Tubulars?

On 7/15/2019 9:37 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 8:57:39 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 8:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 19:44:42 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/14/2019 6:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 4:33:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 5:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:47:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 3:22 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 5:24:57 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 4:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

. Oh, you mean this guy:

Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
3539 Monterey Blvd
San Alejandro CA94578
510) 351-3807

http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

I thought we had gotten over him, now that we have other
contributors who are equally rude and obnoxious, always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come to mind.

Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread. But looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining about is only 61 when written. I am pretty sure ALL of the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that old. I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young anymore. Sadly. Its very depressing that everyone is so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous with age, and
Brandt describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. born November 20, 1942, ex V.P

I read that:

"Whatever else one thinks of Joe Biden, the speech he delivered in New
York on Thursday showed him to be the only Democratic candidate with
his own vision on foreign policy and a full understanding of just how
badly President Donald Trump's vision is damaging U.S. interests and
values around the world."
_________________________

From here it is easy to see the results of the Trump "foreign policy"
in other countries and one thing that is happening is that more and
more exports, and likely imports, from at least Thailand and Cambodia
are going to China now as opposed to the U.S. And China is funneling
money into both countries both in the form of low cost loans and by
opening manufacturing businesses which, of course, contributes to the
local economy both in the form of taxes and by employing more locals.

Even Australia, the news yesterday recently, is considering developing
nuclear weapons as the U.S. foreign policy seems to be very "wobbly"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/17...uclear-weapons



I see in today's paper that for 2019 US imports from China
are down 13% while imports from ROK are up 13%, from ROC up
23%, from Vietnam up 37% and so on.

Only one of the aforementioned countries has four
supercarrier keels down with a goal of challenging USN.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My website search has a slightly different number.

"The Associated Press reported Friday that Chinese imports from the U.S. were down 31.4 percent from the same time last year, U.S. imports from China dropped by a far lower rate ††down just 7.8 percent over last year."

So it seems Trump has made the trade war much worse with his actions. We are hurting China by buying 7.8% less of their goods. Yeah Trump. But hurting USA companies even more by selling 31.4% less to China. I'm sure for 3-4 time bankrupt Trump that means he is winning. Cut off China's pinky finger. Cut off the USA hand. Winning!!!

Another economist steps forward with his educated ideas. We are buying less from China because Americans are buying more from America. This probably is something you cannot fathom. Moreover, since we are keeping more money in America we have less need to sell to foreign countries.

That doesn't even make sense. We're not buying significantly more American products because most of the products from China apart from steel are no longer manufactured here, like most things at Walmart. We're now buying that stuff from ROC, Vietnam, Toadsuckistan -- or the same Chinese stuff is being rerouted through those countries. Just as much money is leaving the country, but its going different places. And more money is leaving American pockets to pay the tariffs. http://money.com/money/5646202/costc...ina-trade-war/ Also, tell the farmers about "not needing" to sell to foreign countries. Your tax dollars are now bailing them out. More farm welfare to promote over-production.

BTW, you don't have any idea of how quickly a US-based company can shift production to another country. Your MAGA hat and Donald Trump tie are now made in Viet Nam instead of China. I ride regularly with two executives who have domestic companies with manufacturing in China. For one, it took only a few months to shift the whole operation to Viet Nam.

China should be spanked for its anti-competitive conduct and misappropriation of US IP, but don't think the dopey tariff war is the way to do it. Tariffs are just how Trump is filling budget holes with the massive reduction in the corporate rate and other give-aways to the rich and famous. Once again, ordinary Joe pays.

-- Jay Beattie.







China HAS made a commitment to partake seriously in trade treaty negotiations.

It's plain that you don't understand anything about anything like all of the other idiot millennials.


+1 nicely done.

That said, what do you suggest after several successive
POTUSes and Congresses have ignored the problems? As with
the open-border mess, he's left with only a hammer which
doesn't make the problem into a nail; he just likes pounding.

I don't have an answer either, but to the extent that Xi
doesn't like tariffs and the domestic China economy has
weakened, I'll reflect on it before screaming.


Andy, how much of your business is Chinese? I don't mean selling to Chinese customers or employing Chinese bike mechanics. But of all the products you sell, how much is made in China? I think almost all Shimano products are Chinese made. FSA and most of the other brands are Chinese. I think Campagnolo makes their stuff in China too. Except for a few boutique high dollar frames, China. Tires and tubes are China. I think Korea, Thailand, Vietnam get some of the business too. The parts portion of the bike industry is Chinese. Love it, hate it. But that is reality today. Your service sales are USA. Guessing you are not employing too many illegal immigrants who snuck down from Canada. And that kind of illustrates a big trend in USA business over the past number of decades. USA exports to the rest of the world is services. Not manufactured products. We are selling minds and ideas and services and people. Not factory stuff. The cheap dumb backward countries are

m
ak
in
g
the stuff. I've seen articles on the trade imbalance. When you add in services the USA sells to the rest of the world, the trade imbalance drops a lot. Its not much of an imbalance at all. But that does not make as good a headline and isn't as easy to grasp for the uneducated masses. "THEY sell more stuff to us than THEY buy from us. Bad bad bad."


Less than you imagine.

None of our own products are made in China now. For only
$11,000 I replaced a $3000 chinese injection mold tool with
one made 25 miles from here four years ago. That ended our
final China vendor[1].

Vredestein tubes are probably made in Netherlands (packaging
is unclear). Michelin are Serbia and Thailand. Campagnolo is
Italy & Romania with wheels from Taiwan ROC. Shimano from
Japan & Malaysia. I spend a very small amount of time
consciously choosing Taiwan ROC product over PRC wherever I
can, such as Sun Race and Kenda product.

Waterford/Gunnar and SOMA are non-Chinese but Bianchi sadly
has some in the mix now. Which is very noticeable at build
between PRC and ROC bikes BTW.

Could a guy make a few extra $$ selling PRC product over
Velocity USA & SOMA rims? Sure. And I don't judge them. For
me, it's not worthwhile.

[1] It's not all patriotism. Over 15 or so years I was
unable to find one honest man doing business in The Middle
Kingdom. Not the only factor but an expensive one.



I got an email that I had received some of those rear derailleur jockey wheels from China. Damned if I could find them. I had received several packages that day but not those parts.

When I contacted the vendor in China essentially what he said was "We sent it to the address given and USPS said they delivered it." I was about to get mad and file a complaint. But then I thought - there was so little money involved and those people in the PRC have so little I'm not going to complain. A couple of days later I saw a small plastic envelope sticking between the sofa cushions and it was my order. It must have been between two of the large packages and fallen into the crack.

The moral is, don't be too fast to judge.


"We need another run of that product"
"You need to cut a new tool"
"But we own a tool, you made it a year ago"
"Uh, we lost it. You need a new one"

I bought a Bob Jackson for my oldest step-daughter from Stone's Cyclery in Alameda in the late 90's. She took it across the US and also ran the Jr. Nationals one year.

It's been sitting out in a shed for the last 20 years or so and the headset was seized solid. I took TriFlow and a hammer to it to free it up enough to take in to Robinson's Wheelworks in town here. Robby started out as apprentice to Dennis Stone. I bought a replacement headset and took it with the BJ into Robby's to have it replaced.

Without even looking he knew that the headset was 27.2 (?) and that the normal headset base is 26.8 (? those sure sound like seat posts to me but what the heck). Robby STILL has the tools made in 1070's to face BJ's down to the standard size. All of his tools look like they are brand new. All of the cutting edges you have to be careful with or they will cut you.

Would you rather buy a tool good for 2 years and then needs replacement or one that is like new after 50 years? I can't even get decent metric hex wrenches anymore. I still have some old Snap-on ratchet ends that look like new. All of the stuff I buy now rounds off to the point that I don't like using them on bicycles.


I am no stranger to purchase, care, sharpening, TiN coatings
and storage of expensive machine cutters:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG

Question: Did you have those "plated" (for want of a better word) and
is so what is the cost? And is the cost based on square inches to be
covered?

I am assuming that you would deliver the tool reasonably clean and
they would do some sort of "super cleaning" prior to "plating".

A 500,000-cycle plastic injection mold tool is really
expensive. Never ever had one 'lost' in Japan or USA. The
client's tool is normally stored between runs as part of the
normal business.
--
cheers,

John B.


They go from the sharpening service directly to the vapor
deposition house. It's titanium nitride of few microns or so
about $30 per piece. Beyond that for a higher fee you can
buy other even harder coatings now.


AFAIK, gold bike chains have just a cosmetic coating. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
But I wonder how long a TiN coated chain - pins, rollers, all the bits - would
last. Ditto TiN coated cogs. Or do these things exist already?

- Frank Krygowski


Not sure. Hard coat vapor dep chain rivets, inside sleeves
and sideplates would, in theory, give a much longer lasting
chain. I doubt sprocket finish matters. I don't know about
damage to the coating under rivet assembly pressure. I am
not an expert but surface coating metallurgists would know that.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #126  
Old July 15th 19, 11:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 763
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 07:57:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/14/2019 8:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 19:44:42 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/14/2019 6:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 4:33:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 5:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:47:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 3:22 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 5:24:57 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 4:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

. Oh, you mean this guy:

Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
3539 Monterey Blvd
San Alejandro CA94578
510) 351-3807

http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

I thought we had gotten over him, now that we have other
contributors who are equally rude and obnoxious, always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come to mind.

Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread. But looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining about is only 61 when written. I am pretty sure ALL of the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that old. I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young anymore. Sadly. Its very depressing that everyone is so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous with age, and
Brandt describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. born November 20, 1942, ex V.P

I read that:

"Whatever else one thinks of Joe Biden, the speech he delivered in New
York on Thursday showed him to be the only Democratic candidate with
his own vision on foreign policy and a full understanding of just how
badly President Donald Trump's vision is damaging U.S. interests and
values around the world."
_________________________

From here it is easy to see the results of the Trump "foreign policy"
in other countries and one thing that is happening is that more and
more exports, and likely imports, from at least Thailand and Cambodia
are going to China now as opposed to the U.S. And China is funneling
money into both countries both in the form of low cost loans and by
opening manufacturing businesses which, of course, contributes to the
local economy both in the form of taxes and by employing more locals.

Even Australia, the news yesterday recently, is considering developing
nuclear weapons as the U.S. foreign policy seems to be very "wobbly"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/17...uclear-weapons



I see in today's paper that for 2019 US imports from China
are down 13% while imports from ROK are up 13%, from ROC up
23%, from Vietnam up 37% and so on.

Only one of the aforementioned countries has four
supercarrier keels down with a goal of challenging USN.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My website search has a slightly different number.

"The Associated Press reported Friday that Chinese imports from the U.S. were down 31.4 percent from the same time last year, U.S. imports from China dropped by a far lower rate  down just 7.8 percent over last year."

So it seems Trump has made the trade war much worse with his actions. We are hurting China by buying 7.8% less of their goods. Yeah Trump. But hurting USA companies even more by selling 31.4% less to China. I'm sure for 3-4 time bankrupt Trump that means he is winning. Cut off China's pinky finger. Cut off the USA hand. Winning!!!

Another economist steps forward with his educated ideas. We are buying less from China because Americans are buying more from America. This probably is something you cannot fathom. Moreover, since we are keeping more money in America we have less need to sell to foreign countries.

That doesn't even make sense. We're not buying significantly more American products because most of the products from China apart from steel are no longer manufactured here, like most things at Walmart. We're now buying that stuff from ROC, Vietnam, Toadsuckistan -- or the same Chinese stuff is being rerouted through those countries. Just as much money is leaving the country, but its going different places. And more money is leaving American pockets to pay the tariffs. http://money.com/money/5646202/costc...ina-trade-war/ Also, tell the farmers about "not needing" to sell to foreign countries. Your tax dollars are now bailing them out. More farm welfare to promote over-production.

BTW, you don't have any idea of how quickly a US-based company can shift production to another country. Your MAGA hat and Donald Trump tie are now made in Viet Nam instead of China. I ride regularly with two executives who have domestic companies with manufacturing in China. For one, it took only a few months to shift the whole operation to Viet Nam.

China should be spanked for its anti-competitive conduct and misappropriation of US IP, but don't think the dopey tariff war is the way to do it. Tariffs are just how Trump is filling budget holes with the massive reduction in the corporate rate and other give-aways to the rich and famous. Once again, ordinary Joe pays.

-- Jay Beattie.







China HAS made a commitment to partake seriously in trade treaty negotiations.

It's plain that you don't understand anything about anything like all of the other idiot millennials.


+1 nicely done.

That said, what do you suggest after several successive
POTUSes and Congresses have ignored the problems? As with
the open-border mess, he's left with only a hammer which
doesn't make the problem into a nail; he just likes pounding.

I don't have an answer either, but to the extent that Xi
doesn't like tariffs and the domestic China economy has
weakened, I'll reflect on it before screaming.


Andy, how much of your business is Chinese? I don't mean selling to Chinese customers or employing Chinese bike mechanics. But of all the products you sell, how much is made in China? I think almost all Shimano products are Chinese made. FSA and most of the other brands are Chinese. I think Campagnolo makes their stuff in China too. Except for a few boutique high dollar frames, China. Tires and tubes are China. I think Korea, Thailand, Vietnam get some of the business too. The parts portion of the bike industry is Chinese. Love it, hate it. But that is reality today. Your service sales are USA. Guessing you are not employing too many illegal immigrants who snuck down from Canada. And that kind of illustrates a big trend in USA business over the past number of decades. USA exports to the rest of the world is services. Not manufactured products. We are selling minds and ideas and services and people. Not factory stuff. The cheap dumb backward countries are m

ak
in
g
the stuff. I've seen articles on the trade imbalance. When you add in services the USA sells to the rest of the world, the trade imbalance drops a lot. Its not much of an imbalance at all. But that does not make as good a headline and isn't as easy to grasp for the uneducated masses. "THEY sell more stuff to us than THEY buy from us. Bad bad bad."


Less than you imagine.

None of our own products are made in China now. For only
$11,000 I replaced a $3000 chinese injection mold tool with
one made 25 miles from here four years ago. That ended our
final China vendor[1].

Vredestein tubes are probably made in Netherlands (packaging
is unclear). Michelin are Serbia and Thailand. Campagnolo is
Italy & Romania with wheels from Taiwan ROC. Shimano from
Japan & Malaysia. I spend a very small amount of time
consciously choosing Taiwan ROC product over PRC wherever I
can, such as Sun Race and Kenda product.

Waterford/Gunnar and SOMA are non-Chinese but Bianchi sadly
has some in the mix now. Which is very noticeable at build
between PRC and ROC bikes BTW.

Could a guy make a few extra $$ selling PRC product over
Velocity USA & SOMA rims? Sure. And I don't judge them. For
me, it's not worthwhile.

[1] It's not all patriotism. Over 15 or so years I was
unable to find one honest man doing business in The Middle
Kingdom. Not the only factor but an expensive one.



I got an email that I had received some of those rear derailleur jockey wheels from China. Damned if I could find them. I had received several packages that day but not those parts.

When I contacted the vendor in China essentially what he said was "We sent it to the address given and USPS said they delivered it." I was about to get mad and file a complaint. But then I thought - there was so little money involved and those people in the PRC have so little I'm not going to complain. A couple of days later I saw a small plastic envelope sticking between the sofa cushions and it was my order. It must have been between two of the large packages and fallen into the crack.

The moral is, don't be too fast to judge.


"We need another run of that product"
"You need to cut a new tool"
"But we own a tool, you made it a year ago"
"Uh, we lost it. You need a new one"

I bought a Bob Jackson for my oldest step-daughter from Stone's Cyclery in Alameda in the late 90's. She took it across the US and also ran the Jr. Nationals one year.

It's been sitting out in a shed for the last 20 years or so and the headset was seized solid. I took TriFlow and a hammer to it to free it up enough to take in to Robinson's Wheelworks in town here. Robby started out as apprentice to Dennis Stone. I bought a replacement headset and took it with the BJ into Robby's to have it replaced.

Without even looking he knew that the headset was 27.2 (?) and that the normal headset base is 26.8 (? those sure sound like seat posts to me but what the heck). Robby STILL has the tools made in 1070's to face BJ's down to the standard size. All of his tools look like they are brand new. All of the cutting edges you have to be careful with or they will cut you.

Would you rather buy a tool good for 2 years and then needs replacement or one that is like new after 50 years? I can't even get decent metric hex wrenches anymore. I still have some old Snap-on ratchet ends that look like new. All of the stuff I buy now rounds off to the point that I don't like using them on bicycles.


I am no stranger to purchase, care, sharpening, TiN coatings
and storage of expensive machine cutters:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG


Question: Did you have those "plated" (for want of a better word) and
is so what is the cost? And is the cost based on square inches to be
covered?

I am assuming that you would deliver the tool reasonably clean and
they would do some sort of "super cleaning" prior to "plating".

A 500,000-cycle plastic injection mold tool is really
expensive. Never ever had one 'lost' in Japan or USA. The
client's tool is normally stored between runs as part of the
normal business.

--
cheers,

John B.


They go from the sharpening service directly to the vapor
deposition house. It's titanium nitride of few microns or so
about $30 per piece. Beyond that for a higher fee you can
buy other even harder coatings now.

typical example:
http://www.praxairsurfacetechnologie...por-deposition


Interesting. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #127  
Old July 15th 19, 11:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 763
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 09:04:22 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 15/07/2019 8:57 a.m., AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 8:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 19:44:42 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/14/2019 6:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 4:33:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 5:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:47:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 3:22 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 5:24:57 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 4:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT),
"
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John
B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

.*** Oh, you mean this guy:

********** Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
********** 3539 Monterey Blvd
********** San Alejandro CA94578
********** 510) 351-3807

**********
http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

********** I thought we had gotten over him, now that
we have other
contributors**** who are equally rude and obnoxious,
always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come
to mind.

********** Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread.* But
looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining
about is only 61 when written.* I am pretty sure ALL of
the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that
old.* I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young
anymore.* Sadly.* Its very depressing that everyone is
so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old
and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous
with age, and
Brandt* describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and
always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr.* born November 20, 1942, ex V.P

I read that:

"Whatever else one thinks of Joe Biden, the speech he
delivered in New
York on Thursday showed him to be the only Democratic
candidate with
his own vision on foreign policy and a full understanding
of just how
badly President Donald Trump's vision is damaging U.S.
interests and
values around the world."
_________________________

***** From here it is easy to see the results of the
Trump "foreign policy"
in other countries and one thing that is happening is that
more and
more exports, and likely imports, from at least Thailand
and Cambodia
are going to China now as opposed to the U.S. And China is
funneling
money into both countries both in the form of low cost
loans and by
opening manufacturing businesses which, of course,
contributes to the
local economy both in the form of taxes and by employing
more locals.

Even Australia, the news yesterday recently, is
considering developing
nuclear weapons as the U.S. foreign policy seems to be
very "wobbly"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/17...uclear-weapons




I see in today's paper that for 2019 US imports from China
are down 13% while imports from ROK are up 13%, from ROC up
23%, from Vietnam up 37% and so on.

Only one of the aforementioned countries has four
supercarrier keels down with a goal of challenging USN.

--
Andrew Muzi
****** www.yellowjersey.org/
****** Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My website search has a slightly different number.

"The Associated Press reported Friday that Chinese imports
from the U.S. were down 31.4 percent from the same time last
year, U.S. imports from China dropped by a far lower rate
â€â€* down just 7.8 percent
over last year."

So it seems Trump has made the trade war much worse with his
actions.* We are hurting China by buying 7.8% less of their
goods.* Yeah Trump.* But hurting USA companies even more by
selling 31.4% less to China.* I'm sure for 3-4 time bankrupt
Trump that means he is winning.* Cut off China's pinky
finger.* Cut off the USA hand.* Winning!!!

Another economist steps forward with his educated ideas. We
are buying less from China because Americans are buying more
from America. This probably is something you cannot fathom.
Moreover, since we are keeping more money in America we have
less need to sell to foreign countries.

That doesn't even make sense. We're not buying significantly
more American products because most of the products from China
apart from steel are no longer manufactured here, like most
things at Walmart. We're now buying that stuff from ROC,
Vietnam, Toadsuckistan -- or the same Chinese stuff is being
rerouted through those countries. Just as much money is
leaving the country, but its going different places.* And more
money is leaving American pockets to pay the tariffs.
http://money.com/money/5646202/costc...ina-trade-war/
Also, tell the farmers about "not needing" to sell to foreign
countries. Your tax dollars are now bailing them out.* More
farm welfare to promote over-production.

BTW, you don't have any idea of how quickly a US-based company
can shift production to another country. Your MAGA hat and
Donald Trump tie are now made in Viet Nam instead of China. I
ride regularly with two executives who have domestic companies
with manufacturing in China.* For one, it took only a few
months to shift the whole operation to Viet Nam.

China should be spanked for its anti-competitive conduct and
misappropriation of US IP, but don't think the dopey tariff
war is the way to do it.* Tariffs are just how Trump is
filling budget holes with the massive reduction in the
corporate rate and other give-aways to the rich and famous.
Once again, ordinary Joe pays.

-- Jay Beattie.







China HAS made a commitment to partake seriously in trade
treaty negotiations.

It's plain that you don't understand anything about anything
like all of the other idiot millennials.


+1 nicely done.

That said, what do you suggest after several successive
POTUSes and Congresses have ignored the problems? As with
the open-border mess, he's left with only a hammer which
doesn't make the problem into a nail; he just likes pounding.

I don't have an answer either, but to the extent that Xi
doesn't like tariffs and the domestic China economy has
weakened, I'll reflect on it before screaming.


Andy, how much of your business is Chinese?* I don't mean
selling to Chinese customers or employing Chinese bike
mechanics.* But of all the products you sell, how much is made
in China?* I think almost all Shimano products are Chinese
made.* FSA and most of the other brands are Chinese.* I think
Campagnolo makes their stuff in China too.* Except for a few
boutique high dollar frames, China.* Tires and tubes are China.
I think Korea, Thailand, Vietnam get some of the business too.
The parts portion of the bike industry is Chinese.* Love it,
hate it.* But that is reality today.* Your service sales are
USA.* Guessing you are not employing too many illegal immigrants
who snuck down from Canada.* And that kind of illustrates a big
trend in USA business over the past number of decades.* USA
exports to the rest of the world is services.* Not manufactured
products.* We are selling minds and ideas and services and
people.* Not factory stuff.* The cheap dumb backward countries
are m

ak
in
g
the stuff.* I've seen articles on the trade imbalance.* When you
add in services the USA sells to the rest of the world, the trade
imbalance drops a lot.* Its not much of an imbalance at all.* But
that does not make as good a headline and isn't as easy to grasp
for the uneducated masses.* "THEY sell more stuff to us than THEY
buy from us.* Bad bad bad."


Less than you imagine.

None of our own products are made in China now.* For only
$11,000 I replaced a $3000 chinese injection mold tool with
one made 25 miles from here four years ago. That ended our
final China vendor[1].

Vredestein tubes are probably made in Netherlands (packaging
is unclear). Michelin are Serbia and Thailand. Campagnolo is
Italy & Romania with wheels from Taiwan ROC. Shimano from
Japan & Malaysia. I spend a very small amount of time
consciously choosing Taiwan ROC product over PRC wherever I
can, such as Sun Race and Kenda product.

Waterford/Gunnar and SOMA are non-Chinese but Bianchi sadly
has some in the mix now.* Which is very noticeable at build
between PRC and ROC bikes BTW.

Could a guy make a few extra $$ selling PRC product over
Velocity USA & SOMA rims? Sure. And I don't judge them. For
me, it's not worthwhile.

[1] It's not all patriotism. Over 15 or so years I was
unable to find one honest man doing business in The Middle
Kingdom. Not the only factor but an expensive one.



I got an email that I had received some of those rear derailleur
jockey wheels from China. Damned if I could find them. I had
received several packages that day but not those parts.

When I contacted the vendor in China essentially what he said was
"We sent it to the address given and USPS said they delivered it."
I was about to get mad and file a complaint. But then I thought -
there was so little money involved and those people in the PRC
have so little I'm not going to complain. A couple of days later I
saw a small plastic envelope sticking between the sofa cushions
and it was my order. It must have been between two of the large
packages and fallen into the crack.

The moral is, don't be too fast to judge.


"We need another run of that product"
****"You need to cut a new tool"
"But we own a tool, you made it a year ago"
****"Uh, we lost it. You need a new one"

I bought a Bob Jackson for my oldest step-daughter from Stone's
Cyclery in Alameda in the late 90's. She took it across the US and
also ran the Jr. Nationals one year.

It's been sitting out in a shed for the last 20 years or so and the
headset was seized solid. I took TriFlow and a hammer to it to free
it up enough to take in to Robinson's Wheelworks in town here. Robby
started out as apprentice to Dennis Stone. I bought a replacement
headset and took it with the BJ into Robby's to have it replaced.

Without even looking he knew that the headset was 27.2 (?) and that
the normal headset base is 26.8 (? those sure sound like seat posts
to me but what the heck). Robby STILL has the tools made in 1070's
to face BJ's down to the standard size. All of his tools look like
they are brand new. All of the cutting edges you have to be careful
with or they will cut you.

Would you rather buy a tool good for 2 years and then needs
replacement or one that is like new after 50 years? I can't even get
decent metric hex wrenches anymore. I still have some old Snap-on
ratchet ends that look like new. All of the stuff I buy now rounds
off to the point that I don't like using them on bicycles.


I am no stranger to purchase, care, sharpening, TiN coatings
and storage of expensive machine cutters:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG

Question: Did you have those "plated" (for want of a better word) and
is so what is the cost? And is the cost* based on square inches to be
covered?

I am assuming* that you would deliver the tool reasonably clean and
they would do some sort of "super cleaning" prior to "plating".

A 500,000-cycle plastic injection mold tool is really
expensive. Never ever had one 'lost' in Japan or USA. The
client's tool is normally stored between runs as part of the
normal business.
--
cheers,

John B.


They go from the sharpening service directly to the vapor deposition
house. It's titanium nitride of few microns or so about $30 per piece.
Beyond that for a higher fee you can buy other even harder coatings now.

typical example:
http://www.praxairsurfacetechnologie...por-deposition



It's more case hardening than plating. Google "Nitriding White Layer"


I'm not sure as the original use of the term "case hardening"
described the hardening of the outer surface of an object by adding
carbon to the parent material, specifically iron or steel, while what
Andrew described seems to be the adding of a layer on the surface of
the parent material, sort of like galvanizing or even painting.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #128  
Old July 16th 19, 01:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 347
Default So Long Tubulars?

On 15/07/2019 6:40 p.m., John B. wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 09:04:22 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 15/07/2019 8:57 a.m., AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 8:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 19:44:42 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/14/2019 6:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 4:33:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 5:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:47:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 3:22 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 5:24:57 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 4:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT),
"
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John
B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

.*** Oh, you mean this guy:

********** Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
********** 3539 Monterey Blvd
********** San Alejandro CA94578
********** 510) 351-3807

**********
http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

********** I thought we had gotten over him, now that
we have other
contributors**** who are equally rude and obnoxious,
always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come
to mind.

********** Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread.* But
looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining
about is only 61 when written.* I am pretty sure ALL of
the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that
old.* I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young
anymore.* Sadly.* Its very depressing that everyone is
so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old
and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous
with age, and
Brandt* describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and
always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr.* born November 20, 1942, ex V.P

I read that:

"Whatever else one thinks of Joe Biden, the speech he
delivered in New
York on Thursday showed him to be the only Democratic
candidate with
his own vision on foreign policy and a full understanding
of just how
badly President Donald Trump's vision is damaging U.S.
interests and
values around the world."
_________________________

***** From here it is easy to see the results of the
Trump "foreign policy"
in other countries and one thing that is happening is that
more and
more exports, and likely imports, from at least Thailand
and Cambodia
are going to China now as opposed to the U.S. And China is
funneling
money into both countries both in the form of low cost
loans and by
opening manufacturing businesses which, of course,
contributes to the
local economy both in the form of taxes and by employing
more locals.

Even Australia, the news yesterday recently, is
considering developing
nuclear weapons as the U.S. foreign policy seems to be
very "wobbly"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/17...uclear-weapons




I see in today's paper that for 2019 US imports from China
are down 13% while imports from ROK are up 13%, from ROC up
23%, from Vietnam up 37% and so on.

Only one of the aforementioned countries has four
supercarrier keels down with a goal of challenging USN.

--
Andrew Muzi
****** www.yellowjersey.org/
****** Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My website search has a slightly different number.

"The Associated Press reported Friday that Chinese imports
from the U.S. were down 31.4 percent from the same time last
year, U.S. imports from China dropped by a far lower rate
†â€* down just 7.8 percent
over last year."

So it seems Trump has made the trade war much worse with his
actions.* We are hurting China by buying 7.8% less of their
goods.* Yeah Trump.* But hurting USA companies even more by
selling 31.4% less to China.* I'm sure for 3-4 time bankrupt
Trump that means he is winning.* Cut off China's pinky
finger.* Cut off the USA hand.* Winning!!!

Another economist steps forward with his educated ideas. We
are buying less from China because Americans are buying more
from America. This probably is something you cannot fathom.
Moreover, since we are keeping more money in America we have
less need to sell to foreign countries.

That doesn't even make sense. We're not buying significantly
more American products because most of the products from China
apart from steel are no longer manufactured here, like most
things at Walmart. We're now buying that stuff from ROC,
Vietnam, Toadsuckistan -- or the same Chinese stuff is being
rerouted through those countries. Just as much money is
leaving the country, but its going different places.* And more
money is leaving American pockets to pay the tariffs.
http://money.com/money/5646202/costc...ina-trade-war/
Also, tell the farmers about "not needing" to sell to foreign
countries. Your tax dollars are now bailing them out.* More
farm welfare to promote over-production.

BTW, you don't have any idea of how quickly a US-based company
can shift production to another country. Your MAGA hat and
Donald Trump tie are now made in Viet Nam instead of China. I
ride regularly with two executives who have domestic companies
with manufacturing in China.* For one, it took only a few
months to shift the whole operation to Viet Nam.

China should be spanked for its anti-competitive conduct and
misappropriation of US IP, but don't think the dopey tariff
war is the way to do it.* Tariffs are just how Trump is
filling budget holes with the massive reduction in the
corporate rate and other give-aways to the rich and famous.
Once again, ordinary Joe pays.

-- Jay Beattie.







China HAS made a commitment to partake seriously in trade
treaty negotiations.

It's plain that you don't understand anything about anything
like all of the other idiot millennials.


+1 nicely done.

That said, what do you suggest after several successive
POTUSes and Congresses have ignored the problems? As with
the open-border mess, he's left with only a hammer which
doesn't make the problem into a nail; he just likes pounding.

I don't have an answer either, but to the extent that Xi
doesn't like tariffs and the domestic China economy has
weakened, I'll reflect on it before screaming.


Andy, how much of your business is Chinese?* I don't mean
selling to Chinese customers or employing Chinese bike
mechanics.* But of all the products you sell, how much is made
in China?* I think almost all Shimano products are Chinese
made.* FSA and most of the other brands are Chinese.* I think
Campagnolo makes their stuff in China too.* Except for a few
boutique high dollar frames, China.* Tires and tubes are China.
I think Korea, Thailand, Vietnam get some of the business too.
The parts portion of the bike industry is Chinese.* Love it,
hate it.* But that is reality today.* Your service sales are
USA.* Guessing you are not employing too many illegal immigrants
who snuck down from Canada.* And that kind of illustrates a big
trend in USA business over the past number of decades.* USA
exports to the rest of the world is services.* Not manufactured
products.* We are selling minds and ideas and services and
people.* Not factory stuff.* The cheap dumb backward countries
are m
ak
in
g
the stuff.* I've seen articles on the trade imbalance.* When you
add in services the USA sells to the rest of the world, the trade
imbalance drops a lot.* Its not much of an imbalance at all.* But
that does not make as good a headline and isn't as easy to grasp
for the uneducated masses.* "THEY sell more stuff to us than THEY
buy from us.* Bad bad bad."


Less than you imagine.

None of our own products are made in China now.* For only
$11,000 I replaced a $3000 chinese injection mold tool with
one made 25 miles from here four years ago. That ended our
final China vendor[1].

Vredestein tubes are probably made in Netherlands (packaging
is unclear). Michelin are Serbia and Thailand. Campagnolo is
Italy & Romania with wheels from Taiwan ROC. Shimano from
Japan & Malaysia. I spend a very small amount of time
consciously choosing Taiwan ROC product over PRC wherever I
can, such as Sun Race and Kenda product.

Waterford/Gunnar and SOMA are non-Chinese but Bianchi sadly
has some in the mix now.* Which is very noticeable at build
between PRC and ROC bikes BTW.

Could a guy make a few extra $$ selling PRC product over
Velocity USA & SOMA rims? Sure. And I don't judge them. For
me, it's not worthwhile.

[1] It's not all patriotism. Over 15 or so years I was
unable to find one honest man doing business in The Middle
Kingdom. Not the only factor but an expensive one.



I got an email that I had received some of those rear derailleur
jockey wheels from China. Damned if I could find them. I had
received several packages that day but not those parts.

When I contacted the vendor in China essentially what he said was
"We sent it to the address given and USPS said they delivered it."
I was about to get mad and file a complaint. But then I thought -
there was so little money involved and those people in the PRC
have so little I'm not going to complain. A couple of days later I
saw a small plastic envelope sticking between the sofa cushions
and it was my order. It must have been between two of the large
packages and fallen into the crack.

The moral is, don't be too fast to judge.


"We need another run of that product"
****"You need to cut a new tool"
"But we own a tool, you made it a year ago"
****"Uh, we lost it. You need a new one"

I bought a Bob Jackson for my oldest step-daughter from Stone's
Cyclery in Alameda in the late 90's. She took it across the US and
also ran the Jr. Nationals one year.

It's been sitting out in a shed for the last 20 years or so and the
headset was seized solid. I took TriFlow and a hammer to it to free
it up enough to take in to Robinson's Wheelworks in town here. Robby
started out as apprentice to Dennis Stone. I bought a replacement
headset and took it with the BJ into Robby's to have it replaced.

Without even looking he knew that the headset was 27.2 (?) and that
the normal headset base is 26.8 (? those sure sound like seat posts
to me but what the heck). Robby STILL has the tools made in 1070's
to face BJ's down to the standard size. All of his tools look like
they are brand new. All of the cutting edges you have to be careful
with or they will cut you.

Would you rather buy a tool good for 2 years and then needs
replacement or one that is like new after 50 years? I can't even get
decent metric hex wrenches anymore. I still have some old Snap-on
ratchet ends that look like new. All of the stuff I buy now rounds
off to the point that I don't like using them on bicycles.


I am no stranger to purchase, care, sharpening, TiN coatings
and storage of expensive machine cutters:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG

Question: Did you have those "plated" (for want of a better word) and
is so what is the cost? And is the cost* based on square inches to be
covered?

I am assuming* that you would deliver the tool reasonably clean and
they would do some sort of "super cleaning" prior to "plating".

A 500,000-cycle plastic injection mold tool is really
expensive. Never ever had one 'lost' in Japan or USA. The
client's tool is normally stored between runs as part of the
normal business.
--
cheers,

John B.


They go from the sharpening service directly to the vapor deposition
house. It's titanium nitride of few microns or so about $30 per piece.
Beyond that for a higher fee you can buy other even harder coatings now.

typical example:
http://www.praxairsurfacetechnologie...por-deposition



It's more case hardening than plating. Google "Nitriding White Layer"


I'm not sure as the original use of the term "case hardening"
described the hardening of the outer surface of an object by adding
carbon to the parent material, specifically iron or steel, while what
Andrew described seems to be the adding of a layer on the surface of
the parent material, sort of like galvanizing or even painting.
--
cheers,

John B.


The question was about Nitriding. Not carburizing. As for "adding the
layer" it's not adding a layer exactly. Gas Nitriding typically uses
ammonia (NH3) heated to the point where it dissociates forcing N2 into
the outer layer. Titanium presents some problems that require a thinner
layer so lower temperature and is often costly.
  #129  
Old July 16th 19, 01:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 450
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 1:19:36 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:

As for Trump, he certainly isn't an idiot as his use of the media
during the campaign was masterful.


This only 'works' if the recipient end 'cooperates'.

Lou
  #130  
Old July 16th 19, 02:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 598
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 5:14:55 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 1:19:36 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:

As for Trump, he certainly isn't an idiot as his use of the media
during the campaign was masterful.


This only 'works' if the recipient end 'cooperates'.

Lou


Does it make you feel bad that Hillary lost by 2/3rds of the electoral college?
 




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