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Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 2nd 19, 10:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
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Posts: 502
Default Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?


See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

In the narration he mentions that a 24 speed gear set, or even more,
would be perfectly feasible. No wires, no cables, either.
--

Cheers,

John B.
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  #2  
Old June 2nd 19, 12:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 4,681
Default Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?

On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 5:49:03 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

In the narration he mentions that a 24 speed gear set, or even more,
would be perfectly feasible. No wires, no cables, either.
--

Cheers,

John B.


Seems to be a concept bicycle not an actual bicycle. I'd like to see how the bicyclist initiates a shift. I'd also like to see it in actual use.

I wonder what the cost will be?

Cheers
  #3  
Old June 2nd 19, 01:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 502
Default Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 04:42:01 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 5:49:03 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

In the narration he mentions that a 24 speed gear set, or even more,
would be perfectly feasible. No wires, no cables, either.
--

Cheers,

John B.


Seems to be a concept bicycle not an actual bicycle. I'd like to see how the bicyclist initiates a shift. I'd also like to see it in actual use.

I wonder what the cost will be?

Cheers


In the latter part of the narration he explains the shift. It is a bit
complex as it apparently uses different "Paths" on the "cassette"
depending on the speed of rotation.

see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFAQ6CzNm7s
for a repeat of the above reference or google on "CeramicSpeed Driven
chainless drivetrain" for about 11,000 hits.

Apparently they have built at least one complete bike as one of the
sites has a picture of someone riding one
https://hiconsumption.com/2018/07/ce...ss-drivetrain/

In reading the fantastic claims for reduced friction one should
remember that a chain drive may well have as high as 98% efficiency.
https://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/Driv...fficiency.aspx
So essentially the Ceramic system may provide 1% greater efficiency
than a well functioning conventional system.

--

Cheers,

John B.
  #4  
Old June 2nd 19, 01:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,681
Default Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?

On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 8:18:56 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 04:42:01 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 5:49:03 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

In the narration he mentions that a 24 speed gear set, or even more,
would be perfectly feasible. No wires, no cables, either.
--

Cheers,

John B.


Seems to be a concept bicycle not an actual bicycle. I'd like to see how the bicyclist initiates a shift. I'd also like to see it in actual use.

I wonder what the cost will be?

Cheers


In the latter part of the narration he explains the shift. It is a bit
complex as it apparently uses different "Paths" on the "cassette"
depending on the speed of rotation.

see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFAQ6CzNm7s
for a repeat of the above reference or google on "CeramicSpeed Driven
chainless drivetrain" for about 11,000 hits.

Apparently they have built at least one complete bike as one of the
sites has a picture of someone riding one
https://hiconsumption.com/2018/07/ce...ss-drivetrain/

In reading the fantastic claims for reduced friction one should
remember that a chain drive may well have as high as 98% efficiency.
https://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/Driv...fficiency.aspx
So essentially the Ceramic system may provide 1% greater efficiency
than a well functioning conventional system.

--

Cheers,

John B.


But HOW DO YOU SHIFT? Is it a lever, a grip shifter? What?

Cheers
  #5  
Old June 2nd 19, 05:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,925
Default Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?

On 6/2/2019 5:48 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

In the narration he mentions that a 24 speed gear set, or even more,
would be perfectly feasible. No wires, no cables, either.


I estimate that a New! Innovative! Revolutionary! Better! bicycle
transmission has been invented every two years or so.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #6  
Old June 2nd 19, 05:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,980
Default Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?

On 6/2/2019 11:18 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/2/2019 5:48 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

In the narration he mentions that a 24 speed gear set, or
even more,
would be perfectly feasible. No wires, no cables, either.


I estimate that a New! Innovative! Revolutionary! Better!
bicycle transmission has been invented every two years or so.


I would expect a hypoid gear set in an oil bath to be
relatively efficient compared to a chain. Any ME comments on
an open crown & pinion set?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #7  
Old June 2nd 19, 06:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 7,925
Default Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?

On 6/2/2019 12:39 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/2/2019 11:18 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/2/2019 5:48 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

In the narration he mentions that a 24 speed gear set, or
even more,
would be perfectly feasible. No wires, no cables, either.


I estimate that a New! Innovative! Revolutionary! Better!
bicycle transmission has been invented every two years or so.


I would expect a hypoid gear set in an oil bath to be relatively
efficient compared to a chain. Any ME comments on an open crown & pinion
set?


I'm pretty sure a chain is the most efficient mechanical transmission by
far. It can get over 98% efficiency under good conditions.

Going entirely by memory, I think one pair of spur gears are typically
90 - 95% (depending on manufacturing accuracy), and hypoids, etc. are
less. You can think of hypoids as a sort of semi-worm gear, and the more
sliding contact, the more friction.

Somewhere around here I may have typical numbers - unless they were
donated to my successors when I retired.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #8  
Old June 2nd 19, 11:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 502
Default Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 05:36:35 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 8:18:56 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 04:42:01 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 5:49:03 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

In the narration he mentions that a 24 speed gear set, or even more,
would be perfectly feasible. No wires, no cables, either.
--

Cheers,

John B.

Seems to be a concept bicycle not an actual bicycle. I'd like to see how the bicyclist initiates a shift. I'd also like to see it in actual use.

I wonder what the cost will be?

Cheers


In the latter part of the narration he explains the shift. It is a bit
complex as it apparently uses different "Paths" on the "cassette"
depending on the speed of rotation.

see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFAQ6CzNm7s
for a repeat of the above reference or google on "CeramicSpeed Driven
chainless drivetrain" for about 11,000 hits.

Apparently they have built at least one complete bike as one of the
sites has a picture of someone riding one
https://hiconsumption.com/2018/07/ce...ss-drivetrain/

In reading the fantastic claims for reduced friction one should
remember that a chain drive may well have as high as 98% efficiency.
https://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/Driv...fficiency.aspx
So essentially the Ceramic system may provide 1% greater efficiency
than a well functioning conventional system.

--

Cheers,

John B.


But HOW DO YOU SHIFT? Is it a lever, a grip shifter? What?

Cheers


The first reference I gave said that the "drive shaft" contained a
remote receiver device which allowed shifting without wires or cable.
No reference seems to have been given regarding the actual shift
button, lever, whatever.

--

Cheers,

John B.
  #9  
Old June 3rd 19, 12:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,980
Default Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?

On 6/2/2019 5:47 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 05:36:35 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 8:18:56 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 04:42:01 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 5:49:03 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM

In the narration he mentions that a 24 speed gear set, or even more,
would be perfectly feasible. No wires, no cables, either.
--

Cheers,

John B.

Seems to be a concept bicycle not an actual bicycle. I'd like to see how the bicyclist initiates a shift. I'd also like to see it in actual use.

I wonder what the cost will be?

Cheers

In the latter part of the narration he explains the shift. It is a bit
complex as it apparently uses different "Paths" on the "cassette"
depending on the speed of rotation.

see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFAQ6CzNm7s
for a repeat of the above reference or google on "CeramicSpeed Driven
chainless drivetrain" for about 11,000 hits.

Apparently they have built at least one complete bike as one of the
sites has a picture of someone riding one
https://hiconsumption.com/2018/07/ce...ss-drivetrain/

In reading the fantastic claims for reduced friction one should
remember that a chain drive may well have as high as 98% efficiency.
https://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/Driv...fficiency.aspx
So essentially the Ceramic system may provide 1% greater efficiency
than a well functioning conventional system.


But HOW DO YOU SHIFT? Is it a lever, a grip shifter? What?



The first reference I gave said that the "drive shaft" contained a
remote receiver device which allowed shifting without wires or cable.
No reference seems to have been given regarding the actual shift
button, lever, whatever.


Don't know but any of a dozen setups would work fine for
that. Those of a certain age are thinking something like an
electric solenoid overdrive switch:
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/articl...ive-solenoids/

In our brave new world a wireless control stepper motor in
side the chainstay with a handlebar up-down switch probably.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #10  
Old June 3rd 19, 03:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Steve Weeks
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 45
Default Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?

On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 11:40:05 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

I would expect a hypoid gear set in an oil bath to be
relatively efficient compared to a chain. Any ME comments on
an open crown & pinion set?


Back in my BMW motorcycling days it was widely accepted that the shaft drive was less efficient than a chain. Not enough to make a difference in routine or even "sport" riding, but there were few shaft-driven bikes in the races. (I saw John Long place 4th the "Superbike" class at Daytona behind 3 Suzukis)

I am not a mechanical engineer, but I *did* stay at a Holiday Inn Express a couple times. Nevertheless, it seems to me that the exposed nature of that "ceramic" drivetrain puts it at risk for all sorts of wear issues, not least of which the "cogs" are aluminum which wouldn't tolerate much abrasive road dust I'm thinking. Also, I would bet that a strong rider would be able to get that largest "cog" to bend by stomping on the pedal. It's a pretty thick piece, but the little bearings must have pretty good mechanical advantage, and the gear would slip and might even be permanently deformed.
Not very impressive for a theoretical 1% improvement in efficiency.

 




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