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BB standard



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 10th 19, 02:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 10,598
Default BB standard

Standards are great! We ought to have more of them!

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/2020-...ockett-t47-bb/

If words have meaning, what is 'standard' any more?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  #2  
Old June 10th 19, 02:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
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Posts: 1,328
Default BB standard

On 10/06/2019 15:04, AMuzi wrote:
Standards are great! We ought to have more of them!

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/2020-...ockett-t47-bb/

If words have meaning, what is 'standard' any more?


Standards are like tooth brushes, great idea, but you wouldn't want to
use anyone else's...
  #3  
Old June 10th 19, 03:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,283
Default BB standard

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 9:04:29 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
Standards are great! We ought to have more of them!

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/2020-...ockett-t47-bb/


But this one: "Launched back in 2015, the T47 BB standard was a collaboration between Chris King and Argonaut Cycles, and was designed to cure the creeks associated with PF30 BBs."

Will the creeks run dry?

- Frank Krygowski
  #4  
Old June 10th 19, 03:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,598
Default BB standard

On 6/10/2019 9:28 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 9:04:29 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
Standards are great! We ought to have more of them!

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/2020-...ockett-t47-bb/


But this one: "Launched back in 2015, the T47 BB standard was a collaboration between Chris King and Argonaut Cycles, and was designed to cure the creeks associated with PF30 BBs."

Will the creeks run dry?



At the end of the last century, 650B 584 was finally dead, a
stake mercifully driven through its heart. But, zombielike,
it returned as the rolling dead. We can only hope to drop
Campagnolo carbon SuperRecord 12 cranks into our Chater-Lea
frames soon!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #5  
Old June 10th 19, 05:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 598
Default BB standard

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 7:43:08 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/10/2019 9:28 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 9:04:29 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
Standards are great! We ought to have more of them!

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/2020-...ockett-t47-bb/


But this one: "Launched back in 2015, the T47 BB standard was a collaboration between Chris King and Argonaut Cycles, and was designed to cure the creeks associated with PF30 BBs."

Will the creeks run dry?



At the end of the last century, 650B 584 was finally dead, a
stake mercifully driven through its heart. But, zombielike,
it returned as the rolling dead. We can only hope to drop
Campagnolo carbon SuperRecord 12 cranks into our Chater-Lea
frames soon!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971



Don't you think that it is about time that real attention was paid to the lowly bottom bracket which was always just jammed in there like an after-thought? The narrower BB's are more efficient but the problem has been the creaking. Replacing the press-fit bearings for a screw-in is actually an intelligent idea. It reduces the weight of the BB shell because it doesn't require the rigidity of a press fit BB.
  #6  
Old June 11th 19, 04:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 4,092
Default BB standard

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 9:54:34 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 7:43:08 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/10/2019 9:28 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 9:04:29 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
Standards are great! We ought to have more of them!

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/2020-...ockett-t47-bb/

But this one: "Launched back in 2015, the T47 BB standard was a collaboration between Chris King and Argonaut Cycles, and was designed to cure the creeks associated with PF30 BBs."

Will the creeks run dry?



At the end of the last century, 650B 584 was finally dead, a
stake mercifully driven through its heart. But, zombielike,
it returned as the rolling dead. We can only hope to drop
Campagnolo carbon SuperRecord 12 cranks into our Chater-Lea
frames soon!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971



Don't you think that it is about time that real attention was paid to the lowly bottom bracket which was always just jammed in there like an after-thought? The narrower BB's are more efficient but the problem has been the creaking. Replacing the press-fit bearings for a screw-in is actually an intelligent idea. It reduces the weight of the BB shell because it doesn't require the rigidity of a press fit BB.


BBs have gotten more attention than any other frame component in the last 10-15 years. https://wheelsmfg.com/bb-standards Too much attention. They should have gotten less attention. And before we changed the shells, we had to cycle through ISIS and Octalink. I think we hit the pinnacle with Shimano $16 outboard bearings in a threaded BB with a Hollowtec crank. https://www..jensonusa.com/Shimano-B...Eg rQYdKwAN1A Or a Campy equivalent if you're into Italiano.

I could see super-sizing the standard threaded format to get more real estate at the BB junction on CF frames. But if the standard died out like Chater-Lea, you'd be screwed. Maybe you could still use PF30. I don't know. The good part about the BB30 direct mount (not PF) formats is that you just have to squeeze in standard 6806 bearings, a standard that is used in other applications, and for me, they stay quiet with some Loctite 609.

-- Jay Beattie.



  #7  
Old June 11th 19, 05:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,974
Default BB standard

On 11/6/19 1:40 pm, jbeattie wrote:


BBs have gotten more attention than any other frame component in the
last 10-15 years. https://wheelsmfg.com/bb-standards Too much
attention. They should have gotten less attention. And before we
changed the shells, we had to cycle through ISIS and Octalink. I
think we hit the pinnacle with Shimano $16 outboard bearings in a
threaded BB with a Hollowtec crank.
https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-BB...Eg rQYdKwAN1A
Or a Campy equivalent if you're into Italiano.


Campagnolo UltraTorque BB & crank design is *the* pinnacle of
development as far as I am concerned. If there was never another BB
assy, I would be happy to use the UT design ad infinitum.

--
JS
  #8  
Old June 11th 19, 09:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 9,237
Default BB standard

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 5:54:33 AM UTC+1, James wrote:
On 11/6/19 1:40 pm, jbeattie wrote:


BBs have gotten more attention than any other frame component in the
last 10-15 years. https://wheelsmfg.com/bb-standards Too much
attention. They should have gotten less attention. And before we
changed the shells, we had to cycle through ISIS and Octalink. I
think we hit the pinnacle with Shimano $16 outboard bearings in a
threaded BB with a Hollowtec crank.
https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-BB...Eg rQYdKwAN1A
Or a Campy equivalent if you're into Italiano.


Campagnolo UltraTorque BB & crank design is *the* pinnacle of
development as far as I am concerned. If there was never another BB
assy, I would be happy to use the UT design ad infinitum.

--
JS


I used to love the good old British standard threaded BB shell, cups and bottom brackets with 1/2in square drive. Common as dirt, and therefore cheap even for good quality components, lasts only like forever, creaks fixed by finding a lamppost or a gatepost or a tree agains which to brace one pedal while the cyclist stood -- or jumped on, according to taste and dignity -- the other pedal.

Now, on my Bafang centre motor, on the drive side I have some unknown bearing deep in the gubbins, without any clarity on how it will ever be replaced, or whether when the bearing wears out the whole motor with the expensive built-in controller is scrapped.

But even that is nothing against the stupendously stupid "engineering" on the non-drive side, where a locking with one specification with its own dedicated tool is overlocked by another specification lockring with a different dedicated tool -- and a higher torque spec, the outer ring totally covering the inner ring so that you can no longer get at it. The upshot, as far as I can see, is that if the inner locking comes loose, as eventually it will, the outer locking will be locked to it by the higher torque and will become loose with it, but you will never get it off without cutting equipment because the torque has squeezed the two rings' threads apart agains the thread on the shaft, and when you do get it off the chances are the thread on the shaft will be ruined. Aaaargh!

Andre Jute
Some people don't even have the brains they were born with
  #9  
Old June 12th 19, 03:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,092
Default BB standard

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 9:54:33 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 11/6/19 1:40 pm, jbeattie wrote:


BBs have gotten more attention than any other frame component in the
last 10-15 years. https://wheelsmfg.com/bb-standards Too much
attention. They should have gotten less attention. And before we
changed the shells, we had to cycle through ISIS and Octalink. I
think we hit the pinnacle with Shimano $16 outboard bearings in a
threaded BB with a Hollowtec crank.
https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-BB...Eg rQYdKwAN1A
Or a Campy equivalent if you're into Italiano.


Campagnolo UltraTorque BB & crank design is *the* pinnacle of
development as far as I am concerned. If there was never another BB
assy, I would be happy to use the UT design ad infinitum.


A little complex from my standpoint, particular with the tooling needed to replace bearings, but the threaded cup is a nice idea. The problem with fretting and spindle wear has never materialized for me with Ultegra or even 105 cranks. I'd be curious to know if it has been a real problem. With BB 30 and similar press-in formats, there is no rigid connection between the bearing and spindle, and it seems to work.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #10  
Old June 13th 19, 10:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 598
Default BB standard

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 8:41:00 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 9:54:34 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 7:43:08 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/10/2019 9:28 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 9:04:29 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
Standards are great! We ought to have more of them!

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/2020-...ockett-t47-bb/

But this one: "Launched back in 2015, the T47 BB standard was a collaboration between Chris King and Argonaut Cycles, and was designed to cure the creeks associated with PF30 BBs."

Will the creeks run dry?


At the end of the last century, 650B 584 was finally dead, a
stake mercifully driven through its heart. But, zombielike,
it returned as the rolling dead. We can only hope to drop
Campagnolo carbon SuperRecord 12 cranks into our Chater-Lea
frames soon!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971



Don't you think that it is about time that real attention was paid to the lowly bottom bracket which was always just jammed in there like an after-thought? The narrower BB's are more efficient but the problem has been the creaking. Replacing the press-fit bearings for a screw-in is actually an intelligent idea. It reduces the weight of the BB shell because it doesn't require the rigidity of a press fit BB.


BBs have gotten more attention than any other frame component in the last 10-15 years. https://wheelsmfg.com/bb-standards Too much attention. They should have gotten less attention. And before we changed the shells, we had to cycle through ISIS and Octalink. I think we hit the pinnacle with Shimano $16 outboard bearings in a threaded BB with a Hollowtec crank. https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-BB...Eg rQYdKwAN1A Or a Campy equivalent if you're into Italiano.

I could see super-sizing the standard threaded format to get more real estate at the BB junction on CF frames. But if the standard died out like Chater-Lea, you'd be screwed. Maybe you could still use PF30. I don't know. The good part about the BB30 direct mount (not PF) formats is that you just have to squeeze in standard 6806 bearings, a standard that is used in other applications, and for me, they stay quiet with some Loctite 609.

-- Jay Beattie.


I wouldn't be against a BB of just sealed bearings except for the reports of these causing the housing to wear and the bearings to pull out with the removal of the cranks.
 




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