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The American Fascist Party can't all be cyclists!



 
 
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  #91  
Old July 15th 19, 02:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 10,962
Default The American Fascist Party can't all be cyclists!

On 7/14/2019 8:17 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 16:04:18 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 3:19:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Chalo wrote:
Bad cops drove away good cops a long time ago. What's left is either criminals under color of authority, or those who'll acquiesce to/support the criminals.

Not where I live.

Maybe you can provide an example of one of your presumed good cops outing a bad cop?

Cops who won't enforce the law against other cops are bad cops and bad humans.


You are working on the assumption that there are bad cops and so no reports of cops reporting cops means that they are all bad.

That is the 9-year-old method of looking at the world. Cops have slightly different laws that they abide by than you. Tell us that a cop seeing a suspect pulling his hand rapidly out from behind him when told to raise his hands and the cop shooting the suspect because he saw a glint in the dark backyard some person's backyard at night has THE RIGHT to answer with lethal force. You don't like it? Tough.


"Cops have slightly different laws that they abide by than you."?

They do? I had thought in the U.S. that police obeyed the applicable
federal and state laws, but now you tell us that they have special
laws, one assumes peculiar only to police?

We'll have to ask the resident lawyer here whether that is true or
not. After all when the cops were caught banging away on old Rodney,
there, it seemed like that had failed to obey California State laws,
not "cop laws".

Or should we just chalk this up to yet another of Tom's fantasies ?
--
cheers,

John B.


I can't speak to Tom's intent or opinion but police are
judged by a different standard from your average putz in
several critical areas when push comes to shove.

Not that there's anything wrong with that in principle, even
if we do as a nation carp about specific instances.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


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  #92  
Old July 15th 19, 03:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 1,324
Default The American Fascist Party can't all be cyclists!

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 20:43:45 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/14/2019 8:17 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 16:04:18 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 3:19:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Chalo wrote:
Bad cops drove away good cops a long time ago. What's left is either criminals under color of authority, or those who'll acquiesce to/support the criminals.

Not where I live.

Maybe you can provide an example of one of your presumed good cops outing a bad cop?

Cops who won't enforce the law against other cops are bad cops and bad humans.

You are working on the assumption that there are bad cops and so no reports of cops reporting cops means that they are all bad.

That is the 9-year-old method of looking at the world. Cops have slightly different laws that they abide by than you. Tell us that a cop seeing a suspect pulling his hand rapidly out from behind him when told to raise his hands and the cop shooting the suspect because he saw a glint in the dark backyard some person's backyard at night has THE RIGHT to answer with lethal force. You don't like it? Tough.


"Cops have slightly different laws that they abide by than you."?

They do? I had thought in the U.S. that police obeyed the applicable
federal and state laws, but now you tell us that they have special
laws, one assumes peculiar only to police?

We'll have to ask the resident lawyer here whether that is true or
not. After all when the cops were caught banging away on old Rodney,
there, it seemed like that had failed to obey California State laws,
not "cop laws".

Or should we just chalk this up to yet another of Tom's fantasies ?
--
cheers,

John B.


I can't speak to Tom's intent or opinion but police are
judged by a different standard from your average putz in
several critical areas when push comes to shove.

Not that there's anything wrong with that in principle, even
if we do as a nation carp about specific instances.


I don't doubt that a policeman's actions may be judged in a different
light but I doubt that there are any special Cop Laws.

And, as I mentioned, when the cops were beating on old Rodney there,
they were judged according to state law and the cop that shot the
young guy in New York that started the big New York riot was tried for
either murder, or maybe it was unlawful shooting, I don't remember.

In that case I think that the cop got off scott free as it turned out
at the trial that the "young kid" was something like 6 feet tall,
weighed 200 lbs, and had a 10 inch butcher knife and made more than
one attempt to stab the cop..
--
cheers,

John B.

  #93  
Old July 15th 19, 04:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,359
Default The American Fascist Party can't all be cyclists!

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 6:19:14 PM UTC-4, Chalo wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Chalo wrote:
Bad cops drove away good cops a long time ago. What's left is either criminals under color of authority, or those who'll acquiesce to/support the criminals.


Not where I live.


Maybe you can provide an example of one of your presumed good cops outing a bad cop?

Cops who won't enforce the law against other cops are bad cops and bad humans.


I don't know any examples where cops I know protected any bad cop.

The closest incident I came across was a few years ago when a cop in the adjoining
city told a young engineer commuting to work (a guy who had been my student)
that he had to ride facing traffic. We contacted the police department and
helped the guy write a letter of complaint.

The chief reportedly confronted the cop, who lied that he gave the (unlawful)
order only because there was a road repair happening just ahead. I heard through
other cop friends that the cop in question was a well-known asshole, disliked
by other cops; but that he was due to retire in a couple months - which he did.
Based on that, the cop got off with just a lecture from the chief. The chief
told one of my best friends - a Criminal Justice professor - that it would have
not been worth the trouble to do any more.

Yes, I'd rather that cop had been drawn and quartered. But I figure the other
cops probably learned from this guy's bad example. I was satisfied, and so was
the cyclist who had gotten the bad order.

- Frank Krygowski
  #94  
Old July 15th 19, 04:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,359
Default The American Fascist Party can't all be cyclists!

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:17:15 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 16:04:18 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 3:19:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Chalo wrote:
Bad cops drove away good cops a long time ago. What's left is either criminals under color of authority, or those who'll acquiesce to/support the criminals.

Not where I live.

Maybe you can provide an example of one of your presumed good cops outing a bad cop?

Cops who won't enforce the law against other cops are bad cops and bad humans.


You are working on the assumption that there are bad cops and so no reports of cops reporting cops means that they are all bad.

That is the 9-year-old method of looking at the world. Cops have slightly different laws that they abide by than you. Tell us that a cop seeing a suspect pulling his hand rapidly out from behind him when told to raise his hands and the cop shooting the suspect because he saw a glint in the dark backyard some person's backyard at night has THE RIGHT to answer with lethal force. You don't like it? Tough.


"Cops have slightly different laws that they abide by than you."?

They do? I had thought in the U.S. that police obeyed the applicable
federal and state laws, but now you tell us that they have special
laws, one assumes peculiar only to police?

We'll have to ask the resident lawyer here whether that is true or
not. After all when the cops were caught banging away on old Rodney,
there, it seemed like that had failed to obey California State laws,
not "cop laws".

Or should we just chalk this up to yet another of Tom's fantasies ?


Sorry, but I agree with Tom on this one. The laws that apply to cops are
different, at least to a degree, than the ones that apply to civilians. As just one
example, they can carry deadly equipment into places you or I could not. As
another, the cop that shot a rabid raccoon in my yard was allowed to discharge
a gun in the village. I am not. They can use lights and sirens on their cars,
but I can't... etc.

- Frank Krygowski

  #95  
Old July 15th 19, 02:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,962
Default The American Fascist Party can't all be cyclists!

On 7/14/2019 10:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 6:19:14 PM UTC-4, Chalo wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Chalo wrote:
Bad cops drove away good cops a long time ago. What's left is either criminals under color of authority, or those who'll acquiesce to/support the criminals.

Not where I live.


Maybe you can provide an example of one of your presumed good cops outing a bad cop?

Cops who won't enforce the law against other cops are bad cops and bad humans.


I don't know any examples where cops I know protected any bad cop.

The closest incident I came across was a few years ago when a cop in the adjoining
city told a young engineer commuting to work (a guy who had been my student)
that he had to ride facing traffic. We contacted the police department and
helped the guy write a letter of complaint.

The chief reportedly confronted the cop, who lied that he gave the (unlawful)
order only because there was a road repair happening just ahead. I heard through
other cop friends that the cop in question was a well-known asshole, disliked
by other cops; but that he was due to retire in a couple months - which he did.
Based on that, the cop got off with just a lecture from the chief. The chief
told one of my best friends - a Criminal Justice professor - that it would have
not been worth the trouble to do any more.

Yes, I'd rather that cop had been drawn and quartered. But I figure the other
cops probably learned from this guy's bad example. I was satisfied, and so was
the cyclist who had gotten the bad order.



The world is a big place and lots of disturbing things
happen every day:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ke/2228948002/

Which is not to say all police are bad. Or good.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #96  
Old July 15th 19, 03:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,143
Default The American Fascist Party can't all be cyclists!

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 8:08:17 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:17:15 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 16:04:18 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 3:19:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Chalo wrote:
Bad cops drove away good cops a long time ago. What's left is either criminals under color of authority, or those who'll acquiesce to/support the criminals.

Not where I live.

Maybe you can provide an example of one of your presumed good cops outing a bad cop?

Cops who won't enforce the law against other cops are bad cops and bad humans.

You are working on the assumption that there are bad cops and so no reports of cops reporting cops means that they are all bad.

That is the 9-year-old method of looking at the world. Cops have slightly different laws that they abide by than you. Tell us that a cop seeing a suspect pulling his hand rapidly out from behind him when told to raise his hands and the cop shooting the suspect because he saw a glint in the dark backyard some person's backyard at night has THE RIGHT to answer with lethal force. You don't like it? Tough.


"Cops have slightly different laws that they abide by than you."?

They do? I had thought in the U.S. that police obeyed the applicable
federal and state laws, but now you tell us that they have special
laws, one assumes peculiar only to police?

We'll have to ask the resident lawyer here whether that is true or
not. After all when the cops were caught banging away on old Rodney,
there, it seemed like that had failed to obey California State laws,
not "cop laws".

Or should we just chalk this up to yet another of Tom's fantasies ?


Sorry, but I agree with Tom on this one. The laws that apply to cops are
different, at least to a degree, than the ones that apply to civilians. As just one
example, they can carry deadly equipment into places you or I could not. As
another, the cop that shot a rabid raccoon in my yard was allowed to discharge
a gun in the village. I am not. They can use lights and sirens on their cars,
but I can't... etc.

- Frank Krygowski


Cops do not have to follow ANY traffic laws. Even to the point of driving opposite traffic.
  #97  
Old July 16th 19, 12:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,324
Default The American Fascist Party can't all be cyclists!

On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 08:08:52 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/14/2019 10:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 6:19:14 PM UTC-4, Chalo wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Chalo wrote:
Bad cops drove away good cops a long time ago. What's left is either criminals under color of authority, or those who'll acquiesce to/support the criminals.

Not where I live.

Maybe you can provide an example of one of your presumed good cops outing a bad cop?

Cops who won't enforce the law against other cops are bad cops and bad humans.


I don't know any examples where cops I know protected any bad cop.

The closest incident I came across was a few years ago when a cop in the adjoining
city told a young engineer commuting to work (a guy who had been my student)
that he had to ride facing traffic. We contacted the police department and
helped the guy write a letter of complaint.

The chief reportedly confronted the cop, who lied that he gave the (unlawful)
order only because there was a road repair happening just ahead. I heard through
other cop friends that the cop in question was a well-known asshole, disliked
by other cops; but that he was due to retire in a couple months - which he did.
Based on that, the cop got off with just a lecture from the chief. The chief
told one of my best friends - a Criminal Justice professor - that it would have
not been worth the trouble to do any more.

Yes, I'd rather that cop had been drawn and quartered. But I figure the other
cops probably learned from this guy's bad example. I was satisfied, and so was
the cyclist who had gotten the bad order.



The world is a big place and lots of disturbing things
happen every day:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ke/2228948002/

Which is not to say all police are bad. Or good.


That report seemed to be a matter of "the prosecution said" and "the
defense said" no judgment was reported.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #98  
Old July 16th 19, 12:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,324
Default The American Fascist Party can't all be cyclists!

On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 07:22:09 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 8:08:17 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:17:15 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 16:04:18 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 3:19:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Chalo wrote:
Bad cops drove away good cops a long time ago. What's left is either criminals under color of authority, or those who'll acquiesce to/support the criminals.

Not where I live.

Maybe you can provide an example of one of your presumed good cops outing a bad cop?

Cops who won't enforce the law against other cops are bad cops and bad humans.

You are working on the assumption that there are bad cops and so no reports of cops reporting cops means that they are all bad.

That is the 9-year-old method of looking at the world. Cops have slightly different laws that they abide by than you. Tell us that a cop seeing a suspect pulling his hand rapidly out from behind him when told to raise his hands and the cop shooting the suspect because he saw a glint in the dark backyard some person's backyard at night has THE RIGHT to answer with lethal force. You don't like it? Tough.

"Cops have slightly different laws that they abide by than you."?

They do? I had thought in the U.S. that police obeyed the applicable
federal and state laws, but now you tell us that they have special
laws, one assumes peculiar only to police?

We'll have to ask the resident lawyer here whether that is true or
not. After all when the cops were caught banging away on old Rodney,
there, it seemed like that had failed to obey California State laws,
not "cop laws".

Or should we just chalk this up to yet another of Tom's fantasies ?


Sorry, but I agree with Tom on this one. The laws that apply to cops are
different, at least to a degree, than the ones that apply to civilians. As just one
example, they can carry deadly equipment into places you or I could not. As
another, the cop that shot a rabid raccoon in my yard was allowed to discharge
a gun in the village. I am not. They can use lights and sirens on their cars,
but I can't... etc.

- Frank Krygowski


Cops do not have to follow ANY traffic laws. Even to the point of driving opposite traffic.


As a general statement that is utter Bull ****!

Had you said something like: Most states permit law enforcement
officers to violate traffic laws only when their car is displaying
red/blue emergency lights and/or a siren (some states require both;
some, one or the other). As a matter of custom and practice, law
enforcement officers are generally allowed to violate traffic laws for
a legitimate police purpose.

I would have agreed.

And, of course, the Highway Code,in most all States state something
like drivers should, "look and listen for ambulances, fire engines,
police, doctors or other emergency vehicles using flashing blue, red
or green lights and sirens or flashing headlights, or traffic officer
and incident support vehicles using flashing amber lights." and if
necessary take appropriate action to let it pass.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #99  
Old July 16th 19, 08:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,143
Default The American Fascist Party can't all be cyclists!

On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 4:51:29 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 07:22:09 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:Exemption of Authorized Emergency Vehicles


If you weren't a nitwit you could have just looked it up.

21055. The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle is exempt from Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 21350), Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 21650), Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 21800), Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 21950), Chapter 6 (commencing with 22100), Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 22348), Chapter 8 (commencing with Section 22450), Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 22500), and Chapter 10 (commencing with Section 22650) of this division, and Article 3 (commencing with Section 38305) and Article 4 (commencing with Section 38312) of Chapter 5 of Division 16.5, under all of the following conditions:

(a) If the vehicle is being driven in response to an emergency call or while engaged in rescue operations or is being used in the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law or is responding to, but not returning from, a fire alarm, except that fire department vehicles are exempt whether directly responding to an emergency call or operated from one place to another as rendered desirable or necessary by reason of an emergency call and operated to the scene of the emergency or operated from one fire station to another or to some other location by reason of the emergency call.

(b) If the driver of the vehicle sounds a siren as may be reasonably necessary and the vehicle displays a lighted red lamp visible from the front as a warning to other drivers and pedestrians.

A siren shall not be sounded by an authorized emergency vehicle except when required under this section.

Amended Ch. 1017, Stats. 1977. Effective September 23, 1977 by terms of an urgency clause.

Effect of Exemption

21056. Section 21055 does not relieve the driver of a vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons using the highway, nor protect him from the consequences of an arbitrary exercise of the privileges granted in that section.
 




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