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Bicycling specific clothing = why not?



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 14th 19, 01:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 621
Default Bicycling specific clothing = why not?

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 4:13:10 PM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 3:17:11 PM UTC-4, AK wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 10:06:19 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:30:19 AM UTC-4, news18 wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 16:00:38 +1000, James wrote:


(In most of Australia it is a legal requirement to wear a helmet. That
in itself could be said to be a change to what you're wearing.)

Unless you've just been up a ladder.
Bacxkground; men over 60 feature significantly in deaths from falling off
a ladder in Australia and I consider a bicycle helment of better use than
those plastic "construction hats".

Ladder manufacturers are too smart to accept promotion of ladder helmets. It
will make use of ladders seem too dangerous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07o-TASvIxY

- Frank Krygowski

Mr. Anderon is somewhat interesting.

He tends to drag things out.

So I only watched half of it.

If he believes we should not wear a helmet while biking, I can give him
names of folks permanently injured because they chose not to wear a helmet.

I can give names of people who died of brain injuries - at least, that was the
most likely cause of death - and who didn't wear helmets. But all the ones I
personally knew were inside cars at the time. That's not unusual, given the
roughly 40,000 annual motorist deaths in this country.

I had one friend who used to ride a motorcycle almost identical to mine, an
antique BMW. He died while wearing a helmet.

I know that the number of pedestrians killed annually in the U.S., Canada,
Britain, Australia (and probably more countries) greatly exceeds the number of
bicyclists killed. As an example, the recent U.S. pedestrian fatality counts
have been approaching 6000. (Bicyclist fatalities are about 800.) I've seen
NEISS data showing that the percentage of fatalities due to brain injury are
about 45% for bikes, about 40% for pedestrians. That means _lots_ more ped
TBI deaths. And other data shows that the pedestrians are at more risk per
mile traveled, too.

And I've had friends who suffered pretty severe (as in, rush to the ER) head
injuries from just walking. They each tripped and fell on their face. Another
good friend just had the same thing happen, but didn't go to ER; she just dealt
with the resulting facial bruises on her own.

When, oh when, are we going to get helmet promotion for pedestrians and motorists?

- Frank Krygowski


I read somewhere that some 450 USians die annually from falling out of
bed. It is apparent that "bed Helmets" or at least safety belts
should be required.

Why don't our leaders do something to stop this carnage!
--
cheers,

John B.



How many times will you post that? I’m tired of explaining to you about
universe of discourse. What percentage of those sleeping in beds die from
falling out of bed?

Let me give you a hint. 300 or so million Americans sleep in beds. 450
die falling out of them. The math is not complicated.

700 or so die cycling. How many cycle? See where I’m going with this? I
guess not..l

--
duane


That's the engineer in John who cannot understand that these sorts of injuries are measured in man/hours per fatality.

For bicycling the numbers are a little vague but about a fifth of the population cycles. Finding an average time of ride would be extremely difficult since most of these are slow speed rides not more than an hour whereas you or I might ride for 8 hours on a century.

But as a guess let's put the number of man-hours of riding at about 1/5 of 320,000,000 at approximately 100 Million hours per year. This is an average cycling time of 1.5 hours PER YEAR for 64 Million people. This is purposely underestimated to give worst case scenarios concerning fatalities.

While we have a wide variation in fatalities it all seems to revolved around approximately 800 fatalities per year. Or one fatalities per 96 million hours.

EVERYONE sleeps approximately 6 hours a day as a minimum. That means that we're looking at about one fatality per 2 billion hours of participation assuming 400 yearly fatalities from falling out of bed. This makes bicycle only 20 times as dangerous as falling out of bed.

Now, any increase in the number of bicycling hours per year makes it appear correspondingly safer.


Ads
  #22  
Old July 14th 19, 01:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,406
Default Bicycling specific clothing = why not?

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 7:50:04 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 7:13:10 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 3:17:11 PM UTC-4, AK wrote:


If he believes we should not wear a helmet while biking, I can give him
names of folks permanently injured because they chose not to wear a helmet.

I can give names of people who died of brain injuries - at least, that was the
most likely cause of death - and who didn't wear helmets. But all the ones I
personally knew were inside cars at the time. That's not unusual, given the
roughly 40,000 annual motorist deaths in this country.

I had one friend who used to ride a motorcycle almost identical to mine, an
antique BMW. He died while wearing a helmet.

I know that the number of pedestrians killed annually in the U.S., Canada,
Britain, Australia (and probably more countries) greatly exceeds the number of
bicyclists killed. As an example, the recent U.S. pedestrian fatality counts
have been approaching 6000. (Bicyclist fatalities are about 800.) I've seen
NEISS data showing that the percentage of fatalities due to brain injury are
about 45% for bikes, about 40% for pedestrians. That means _lots_ more ped
TBI deaths. And other data shows that the pedestrians are at more risk per
mile traveled, too.

And I've had friends who suffered pretty severe (as in, rush to the ER) head
injuries from just walking. They each tripped and fell on their face.. Another
good friend just had the same thing happen, but didn't go to ER; she just dealt
with the resulting facial bruises on her own.

When, oh when, are we going to get helmet promotion for pedestrians and motorists?

- Frank Krygowski

I read somewhere that some 450 USians die annually from falling out of
bed. It is apparent that "bed Helmets" or at least safety belts
should be required.

Why don't our leaders do something to stop this carnage!
--
cheers,

John B.



How many times will you post that? I’m tired of explaining to you about
universe of discourse. What percentage of those sleeping in beds die from
falling out of bed?

Let me give you a hint. 300 or so million Americans sleep in beds. 450
die falling out of them. The math is not complicated.

700 or so die cycling. How many cycle? See where I’m going with this? I
guess not..l


AK started this sub-thread with his statement that he knew head injured cyclists,
and his implication that therefore bicyclists should wear helmets.

Nobody has suitably explained why that logic applies only for bicyclists, who
are NOT at unusual individual risk, and who make up only a microscopic percentage
of serious brain injuries nationally.

So where ARE you going? Are you back to claiming that all bicyclists should wear
helmets? And that nobody should post any data skeptical of helmets?

Perhaps you should just let people post what they like, and read only what
interests you. And perhaps you should let each person make their own choice of
hat style. Or gosh, maybe even ride without hats!

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/07...-02_grande.jpg

- Frank Krygowski


And not disparage those who choose to wear a helmet by you calling them "magic Hats". LOL

Cheers
  #23  
Old July 14th 19, 02:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,519
Default Bicycling specific clothing = why not?

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 7:13:10 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 3:17:11 PM UTC-4, AK wrote:


If he believes we should not wear a helmet while biking, I can give him
names of folks permanently injured because they chose not to wear a helmet.

I can give names of people who died of brain injuries - at least, that was the
most likely cause of death - and who didn't wear helmets. But all the ones I
personally knew were inside cars at the time. That's not unusual, given the
roughly 40,000 annual motorist deaths in this country.

I had one friend who used to ride a motorcycle almost identical to mine, an
antique BMW. He died while wearing a helmet.

I know that the number of pedestrians killed annually in the U.S., Canada,
Britain, Australia (and probably more countries) greatly exceeds the number of
bicyclists killed. As an example, the recent U.S. pedestrian fatality counts
have been approaching 6000. (Bicyclist fatalities are about 800.) I've seen
NEISS data showing that the percentage of fatalities due to brain injury are
about 45% for bikes, about 40% for pedestrians. That means _lots_ more ped
TBI deaths. And other data shows that the pedestrians are at more risk per
mile traveled, too.

And I've had friends who suffered pretty severe (as in, rush to the ER) head
injuries from just walking. They each tripped and fell on their face. Another
good friend just had the same thing happen, but didn't go to ER; she just dealt
with the resulting facial bruises on her own.

When, oh when, are we going to get helmet promotion for pedestrians and motorists?

- Frank Krygowski

I read somewhere that some 450 USians die annually from falling out of
bed. It is apparent that "bed Helmets" or at least safety belts
should be required.

Why don't our leaders do something to stop this carnage!
--
cheers,

John B.



How many times will you post that? I’m tired of explaining to you about
universe of discourse. What percentage of those sleeping in beds die from
falling out of bed?

Let me give you a hint. 300 or so million Americans sleep in beds. 450
die falling out of them. The math is not complicated.

700 or so die cycling. How many cycle? See where I’m going with this? I
guess not..l


AK started this sub-thread with his statement that he knew head injured cyclists,
and his implication that therefore bicyclists should wear helmets.

Nobody has suitably explained why that logic applies only for bicyclists, who
are NOT at unusual individual risk, and who make up only a microscopic percentage
of serious brain injuries nationally.

So where ARE you going? Are you back to claiming that all bicyclists should wear
helmets? And that nobody should post any data skeptical of helmets?

Perhaps you should just let people post what they like, and read only what
interests you. And perhaps you should let each person make their own choice of
hat style. Or gosh, maybe even ride without hats!

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/07...-02_grande.jpg

- Frank Krygowski


Whether you are right or wrong, John posting bogus stats is still nonsense.
That’s all, I’m saying. I’m sick of fake data. Sick enough to reply to
you. So perhaps you should try to encourage actual science and data to
support your cause.

--
duane
  #24  
Old July 14th 19, 02:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,519
Default Bicycling specific clothing = why not?

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 7:50:04 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 7:13:10 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 3:17:11 PM UTC-4, AK wrote:


If he believes we should not wear a helmet while biking, I can give him
names of folks permanently injured because they chose not to wear a helmet.

I can give names of people who died of brain injuries - at least, that was the
most likely cause of death - and who didn't wear helmets. But all the ones I
personally knew were inside cars at the time. That's not unusual, given the
roughly 40,000 annual motorist deaths in this country.

I had one friend who used to ride a motorcycle almost identical to mine, an
antique BMW. He died while wearing a helmet.

I know that the number of pedestrians killed annually in the U.S., Canada,
Britain, Australia (and probably more countries) greatly exceeds the number of
bicyclists killed. As an example, the recent U.S. pedestrian fatality counts
have been approaching 6000. (Bicyclist fatalities are about 800.) I've seen
NEISS data showing that the percentage of fatalities due to brain injury are
about 45% for bikes, about 40% for pedestrians. That means _lots_ more ped
TBI deaths. And other data shows that the pedestrians are at more risk per
mile traveled, too.

And I've had friends who suffered pretty severe (as in, rush to the ER) head
injuries from just walking. They each tripped and fell on their face. Another
good friend just had the same thing happen, but didn't go to ER; she just dealt
with the resulting facial bruises on her own.

When, oh when, are we going to get helmet promotion for pedestrians and motorists?

- Frank Krygowski

I read somewhere that some 450 USians die annually from falling out of
bed. It is apparent that "bed Helmets" or at least safety belts
should be required.

Why don't our leaders do something to stop this carnage!
--
cheers,

John B.



How many times will you post that? I’m tired of explaining to you about
universe of discourse. What percentage of those sleeping in beds die from
falling out of bed?

Let me give you a hint. 300 or so million Americans sleep in beds. 450
die falling out of them. The math is not complicated.

700 or so die cycling. How many cycle? See where I’m going with this? I
guess not..l


AK started this sub-thread with his statement that he knew head injured cyclists,
and his implication that therefore bicyclists should wear helmets.

Nobody has suitably explained why that logic applies only for bicyclists, who
are NOT at unusual individual risk, and who make up only a microscopic percentage
of serious brain injuries nationally.

So where ARE you going? Are you back to claiming that all bicyclists should wear
helmets? And that nobody should post any data skeptical of helmets?

Perhaps you should just let people post what they like, and read only what
interests you. And perhaps you should let each person make their own choice of
hat style. Or gosh, maybe even ride without hats!

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/07...-02_grande.jpg

- Frank Krygowski


And not disparage those who choose to wear a helmet by you calling them "magic Hats". LOL

Cheers


It’s not like these guys are going to actually convince anyone of anything.
It would be nice that those espousing scientific justification would have
something to say about nonsense pseudo science.


--
duane
  #25  
Old July 14th 19, 02:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 367
Default Bicycling specific clothing = why not?

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 7:50:04 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 7:13:10 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 3:17:11 PM UTC-4, AK wrote:


If he believes we should not wear a helmet while biking, I can give him
names of folks permanently injured because they chose not to wear a helmet.

I can give names of people who died of brain injuries - at least, that was the
most likely cause of death - and who didn't wear helmets. But all the ones I
personally knew were inside cars at the time. That's not unusual, given the
roughly 40,000 annual motorist deaths in this country.

I had one friend who used to ride a motorcycle almost identical to mine, an
antique BMW. He died while wearing a helmet.

I know that the number of pedestrians killed annually in the U.S., Canada,
Britain, Australia (and probably more countries) greatly exceeds the number of
bicyclists killed. As an example, the recent U.S. pedestrian fatality counts
have been approaching 6000. (Bicyclist fatalities are about 800.) I've seen
NEISS data showing that the percentage of fatalities due to brain injury are
about 45% for bikes, about 40% for pedestrians. That means _lots_ more ped
TBI deaths. And other data shows that the pedestrians are at more risk per
mile traveled, too.

And I've had friends who suffered pretty severe (as in, rush to the ER) head
injuries from just walking. They each tripped and fell on their face. Another
good friend just had the same thing happen, but didn't go to ER; she just dealt
with the resulting facial bruises on her own.

When, oh when, are we going to get helmet promotion for pedestrians and motorists?

- Frank Krygowski

I read somewhere that some 450 USians die annually from falling out of
bed. It is apparent that "bed Helmets" or at least safety belts
should be required.

Why don't our leaders do something to stop this carnage!
--
cheers,

John B.



How many times will you post that? I’m tired of explaining to you about
universe of discourse. What percentage of those sleeping in beds die from
falling out of bed?

Let me give you a hint. 300 or so million Americans sleep in beds. 450
die falling out of them. The math is not complicated.

700 or so die cycling. How many cycle? See where I’m going with this? I
guess not..l


AK started this sub-thread with his statement that he knew head injured cyclists,
and his implication that therefore bicyclists should wear helmets.

Nobody has suitably explained why that logic applies only for bicyclists, who
are NOT at unusual individual risk, and who make up only a microscopic percentage
of serious brain injuries nationally.

So where ARE you going? Are you back to claiming that all bicyclists should wear
helmets? And that nobody should post any data skeptical of helmets?

Perhaps you should just let people post what they like, and read only what
interests you. And perhaps you should let each person make their own choice of
hat style. Or gosh, maybe even ride without hats!

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/07...-02_grande.jpg

- Frank Krygowski


And not disparage those who choose to wear a helmet by you calling them "magic Hats". LOL

Cheers


There’s not much of a “rush towards the middle” on this topic (or most the
stuff that gets debated repeatedly here).

  #26  
Old July 14th 19, 04:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 468
Default Bicycling specific clothing = why not?

On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 23:13:07 +0000, Duane wrote:

John B. wrote:


I read somewhere that some 450 USians die annually from falling out of
bed. It is apparent that "bed Helmets" or at least safety belts should
be required.

Why don't our leaders do something to stop this carnage!
--
cheers,

John B.



How many times will you post that? I’m tired of explaining to you about
universe of discourse. What percentage of those sleeping in beds die
from falling out of bed?

Let me give you a hint. 300 or so million Americans sleep in beds. 450
die falling out of them. The math is not complicated.


Do you have any age factor for this figure?
Based on recent personally known "injuries from falling out of bed" both
were very elderly people and the real danger was the long time until they
were discvered/found and given care.


700 or so die cycling. How many cycle? See where I’m going with this?
I guess not..l


Yes, often the figure do not have any depth of information to arrive a
woth while responses. E.g. in this country, wearing a helmet can increase
chances of death from heat stroke in certain places and times.

  #27  
Old July 14th 19, 04:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 468
Default Bicycling specific clothing = why not?

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 01:16:27 +0000, Duane wrote:


Whether you are right or wrong, John posting bogus stats is still
nonsense.
That’s all, I’m saying. I’m sick of fake data. Sick enough to reply
to
you. So perhaps you should try to encourage actual science and data to
support your cause.


Then you must be starved of useful data.

  #28  
Old July 14th 19, 04:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 468
Default Bicycling specific clothing = why not?

On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 17:13:54 -0700, Tom Kunich wrote:


For bicycling the numbers are a little vague but about a fifth of the
population cycles. Finding an average time of ride would be extremely
difficult since most of these are slow speed rides not more than an hour
whereas you or I might ride for 8 hours on a century.


You and anyone who posts on this usenet are NOT the typical bicycle rider.
Reader's Digest will tell you that it is kids on basic bicycles.
  #29  
Old July 14th 19, 04:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 468
Default Bicycling specific clothing = why not?

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 05:46:54 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 12:17:10 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:


I cringe when I see motorcyclists without helmets. :-(

Why? cyclists of both species rode their two wheeled devices for far
more many years without helmets than with.


no they crop the casualities for organ transplants.
  #30  
Old July 14th 19, 04:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 763
Default Bicycling specific clothing = why not?

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 03:09:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 05:46:54 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 12:17:10 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:


I cringe when I see motorcyclists without helmets. :-(

Why? cyclists of both species rode their two wheeled devices for far
more many years without helmets than with.


no they crop the casualities for organ transplants.


In the late 1800's? Remember the first "safety bicycles" were built in
the 1860's and the first motorcycle seems to be around 1894. Were they
doing organ transplants in those days? They certainly weren't wearing
helmets.
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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