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#1
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Phils with threaded flange?
Came across this ebay interesting listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-VINTAGE-PHI...QQcmdZViewItem It's for a front and rear hub, the front labeled Phil, the rear looks a lot like a Phil but has a threaded driveside flange. They're being sold as track hubs, but... I can't figure it out. No reduced radius for a lockring. And, if I'm reading it right, the threading changes, preventing the flange from moving too far out. Anyone have any clues about these? I'm mystified. |
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#2
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Phils with threaded flange?
In article
, Scott Gordo wrote: Came across this ebay interesting listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-VINTAGE-PHI...GE-HUBS-FIXIE- BMX_W0QQ itemZ250231579445QQihZ015QQcategoryZ56197QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem It's for a front and rear hub, the front labeled Phil, the rear looks a lot like a Phil but has a threaded driveside flange. They're being sold as track hubs, but... I can't figure it out. No reduced radius for a lockring. And, if I'm reading it right, the threading changes, preventing the flange from moving too far out. Anyone have any clues about these? I'm mystified. Looks like a one-off. It's an original style Phil hubset which consisted of aluminum flanges pressed onto a steel hub body. I've never seen one like this, IMHO it's a shaky idea. It's clearly not a track hub because there is no provision for a lockring. You'd only use this with a freewheel, which you'd have to mount first and then spin the flange out to snug up against, before you could calculate spoke length and to be able to build your wheel. And that process would be a pain in the ass. I think there's a reason you've never seen another hub like this one... Hmm, I forgot to look- this listing isn't dated 4/1/08, is it? |
#3
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Phils with threaded flange?
On Apr 2, 1:24*pm, Scott Gordo wrote:
Came across this ebay interesting listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-VINTAGE-PHI...NGE-HUBS-FIXIE... It's for a front and rear hub, the front labeled Phil, the rear looks a lot like a Phil but has a threaded driveside flange. They're being sold as track hubs, but... I can't figure it out. No reduced radius for a lockring. And, if I'm reading it right, the threading changes, preventing the flange from moving too far out. Anyone have any clues about these? I'm mystified. Eeek. Run from that eBay seller! Prototype 1950s track hubs? Phil made his first set of hubs in about '71 IIRC for sale by Spence Wolf at Cupertino Bikes. His son, Barry Wood, was a buddy of mine at LGHS back then. I was in to bikes and saw most of his products and never saw anything like that -- nor would there be any reason to produce something like it AFAIK. Anyway, that looks like a broken hub. Turn the flange around, spin it down with some Locktite, and you have a five speed, threaded freewheel hub. I had a bunch of those and still have a couple in the basement. I'll go home tonight to look at my old threaded five speed Phil hub, but IMO, that's just a hub in need of repair. And yes, all of Phil's track hubs had threading for a lock ring. -- Jay Beattie. |
#4
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Phils with threaded flange?
On Apr 2, 5:55*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 2, 1:24*pm, Scott Gordo wrote: Came across this ebay interesting listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-VINTAGE-PHI...NGE-HUBS-FIXIE... It's for a front and rear hub, the front labeled Phil, the rear looks a lot like a Phil but has a threaded driveside flange. They're being sold as track hubs, but... I can't figure it out. No reduced radius for a lockring. And, if I'm reading it right, the threading changes, preventing the flange from moving too far out. Anyone have any clues about these? I'm mystified. Eeek. *Run from that eBay seller! *Prototype 1950s track hubs? *Phil made his first set of hubs in about '71 IIRC for sale by Spence Wolf at Cupertino Bikes. *His son, Barry Wood, was a buddy of mine at LGHS back then. *I was in to bikes and saw most of his products and never saw anything like that -- nor would there be any reason to produce something like it AFAIK. Anyway, that looks like a broken hub. *Turn the flange around, spin it down with some Locktite, and you have a five speed, threaded freewheel hub. I had a bunch of those and still have a couple in the basement. I'll go home tonight to look at my old threaded five speed Phil hub, but IMO, that's just a hub in need of repair. And yes, all of Phil's track hubs had threading for a lock ring. -- Jay Beattie. Just looked at my early 70s low flange Phil Wood rear hub - the drive side flange is mounted in the same orientation as that in the ebay photos (straight up and down on the inner face, with a cylindrical extension at the inner diameter on the outer face). That extension is what the freewheel butts up against. Mine does show threads on the body of the hub to the inside of the drive side flange, but only about one thread, so much less thread showing than on the ebay photo that has the two flanges as far apart as possible. At the same time, mine has several more threads showing on the freewheel side than the ebay photo does - in fact, about the number of threads you'd expect a freewheel hub to have. Mine's laced to a rim, so can't try to turn the drive side flange with respect to the body; not sure I'd want to anyway - might make mine just as broken as the one on ebay! Kerry |
#5
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Phils with threaded flange?
Scott Gordo wrote:
Came across this ebay interesting listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-VINTAGE-PHI...NGE-HUBS-FIXIE... It's for a front and rear hub, the front labeled Phil, the rear looks a lot like a Phil but has a threaded driveside flange. They're being sold as track hubs, but... I can't figure it out. No reduced radius for a lockring. And, if I'm reading it right, the threading changes, preventing the flange from moving too far out. Anyone have any clues about these? I'm mystified. Old Phil hubs used flanges that were threaded onto the hub shells (which were made of stainless steel). I have owned a couple of such hubs, because I inevitably fall into the company of bike advocacy organizations that accept donated bikes and equipment. One of my friends has an anecdote about a triplet racing team doing a hillclimb event with high-spoke-count Phil hubs of such construction, and quickly collapsing their rear wheel when the drive flange screwed further up the shell. Chalo |
#6
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Phils with threaded flange?
In article
, Chalo wrote: One of my friends has an anecdote about a triplet racing team doing a hillclimb event with high-spoke-count Phil hubs of such construction, and quickly collapsing their rear wheel when the drive flange screwed further up the shell. I wondered about that possibility looking at the photos, but can it actually happen? The trailing spokes would have to stretch lots and lots to allow the flange to rotate on the hub shell, like centimeters. |
#7
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Phils with threaded flange?
On Apr 5, 8:03*am, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article , *Chalo wrote: One of my friends has an anecdote about a triplet racing team doing a hillclimb event with high-spoke-count Phil hubs of such construction, and quickly collapsing their rear wheel when the drive flange screwed further up the shell. I wondered about that possibility looking at the photos, but can it actually happen? *The trailing spokes would have to stretch lots and lots to allow the flange to rotate on the hub shell, like centimeters. That was the lore in the '70s -- although it never happened to me or anyone else I knew. It always seemed to me back then that there was a need to tell tales about equipment. Everyone rode the same Campy NR/ SR. Nothing worked that well or broke that much, so we had to invent big differences and lore -- like people who could feel the difference between 3 and 4 cross.-- Jay Beattie. |
#8
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Phils with threaded flange?
In article
, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 5, 8:03*am, Tim McNamara wrote: In article , *Chalo wrote: One of my friends has an anecdote about a triplet racing team doing a hillclimb event with high-spoke-count Phil hubs of such construction, and quickly collapsing their rear wheel when the drive flange screwed further up the shell. I wondered about that possibility looking at the photos, but can it actually happen? *The trailing spokes would have to stretch lots and lots to allow the flange to rotate on the hub shell, like centimeters. That was the lore in the '70s -- although it never happened to me or anyone else I knew. It always seemed to me back then that there was a need to tell tales about equipment. Everyone rode the same Campy NR/ SR. Nothing worked that well or broke that much, so we had to invent big differences and lore -- like people who could feel the difference between 3 and 4 cross.-- Jay Beattie. Seems to me, from reading this newsgroup and other places, that this really hasn't changed all that much. "Rigid but compliant" is still part of the cyclist's vocabulary. |
#9
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Phils with threaded flange?
On Apr 5, 10:03 am, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article , Chalo wrote: One of my friends has an anecdote about a triplet racing team doing a hillclimb event with high-spoke-count Phil hubs of such construction, and quickly collapsing their rear wheel when the drive flange screwed further up the shell. I wondered about that possibility looking at the photos, but can it actually happen? The trailing spokes would have to stretch lots and lots to allow the flange to rotate on the hub shell, like centimeters. Half-radial construction would certainly increase the opportunity for problems, but I don't think that detail was stipulated in the tale I heard. Chalo |
#10
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Phils with threaded flange?
On Apr 5, 9:07*am, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article , *Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 5, 8:03*am, Tim McNamara wrote: In article , *Chalo wrote: One of my friends has an anecdote about a triplet racing team doing a hillclimb event with high-spoke-count Phil hubs of such construction, and quickly collapsing their rear wheel when the drive flange screwed further up the shell. I wondered about that possibility looking at the photos, but can it actually happen? *The trailing spokes would have to stretch lots and lots to allow the flange to rotate on the hub shell, like centimeters. That was the lore in the '70s -- although it never happened to me or anyone else I knew. *It always seemed to me back then that there was a need to tell tales about equipment. *Everyone rode the same Campy NR/ SR. *Nothing worked that well or broke that much, so we had to invent big differences and lore -- like people who could feel the difference between 3 and 4 cross.-- Jay Beattie. Seems to me, from reading this newsgroup and other places, that this really hasn't changed all that much. *"Rigid but compliant" is still part of the cyclist's vocabulary.- Hide quoted text - And warm in the winter and cool in the summer. I was thinking about how little variety there was back in the day. Everyone who was anyone rode Campy, and the only real question was whether you would get it with holes -- or in black. Campy in black and with holes was the pinnacle of consumerism (apart from silk tires). No body attributed magical properties to the holes, though -- unlike the stuff we see today that claims to be rigid and complaint, etc. The marketing claims have to be pretty extreme nowadays to make something standout from the crowd.. -- Jay Beattie. |
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