#1
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets Yet Again
Yesterday I took out my Redline. As reported here, last Friday I took out my Ridley with it's new TRP CX-9 V-brakes on it and did a specific course with a lot of climbing and a LONG downhill to test the braking.
The little over 22 miles took me 4 hours including about a half hour stop at a bike shop for a long rest. On the same course with the Redline the bike was obviously much faster. Why that would be I'm not sure. Could it be because I was just over the course and have more familiarity with it? That's unlikely since I do the climbing part of the course fairly often. At the top I started down a long (more or less) straight and steep downhill of about two miles of length. The drop in this two miles is 1000 feet. There are some shallow spots along here so the steeper parts are probably 16% or so. The Redline with the disks gives you a sense of power so I could descend faster. The ground is relatively soft and has a LOT of rain ruts in it from this last winter. Some are as deep as six inches so you have to be watchful how you hit them. I passed a bunch of full suspension guys battling up this hard but not impossible climb. In a smooth spot I passed the tail end charley and was moving along at maybe 18 or 20 mph over some smooth rocks and at the other end there was a deep rut that i missed while paying attention to the MTB guy. As I hit the rut I was thrown slightly forward and grabbed the bars tighter.. I have this bike fitted with flat bars because the hydraulic disks are much easier to get for them. Unfortunately grabbing the bars tighter when you have your hands over the brake levers on a flat bar means you apply the disks. And it was hard enough to lock the front wheel solid. I remember screaming, "OH ****" as the bike rotated over the front wheel. At the top with the height of my head and the downhill part of the hill I must have been 10' above the ground. I came down face first towards the ground. And as I've been stressing here - I rolled by body in such a manner that I landed on my hip, knee, shoulder and elbow. The landing shock also caused by helmet to strike the ground. The MTB guy stopped looked around and saw my bike laying on top of me and asked, "Are you OK?" I'm afraid I wasn't very civil to a question like that at that moment. I kicked the bike off of me and he helped me to my feet. That this was a perfectly straight rotation was demonstrated by the fact that the fingernails on my right hand had jammed into the ground and tried to lift the nails on my middle and ring finger. We used my water bottle to wash the blood off, I thanked him for his assistance and I continues down the mountain with a great deal more care. Though I was hurting here and there I didn't seem to be in any extreme pain so I didn't stop at the ER to get a looking over. I stopped at Endless Cycles and washed the injuries off a little more with antibacterial soap they keep on hand for people like me. My front disk was squeaking and Chris the chief mechanic threw it on the rack and slightly straightened the disk and the wheel which were very slightly out. Endless Cycles is really a great shop. Since I didn't feel too bad I went over another 300 foot climb on the way home. When I got home I looked at my helmet since I was developing a headache. There was a VERY slight depression about one inch above my ear when the side impact caused my head to hit the flat rock I landed on. This is what helmets are good for and why I wear a helmet. Very slight injury avoidance. Helmets will not save your life but they most certainly can save you annoying injuries. As for the flat bar - I _think_ that if I was riding a drop bar that when I was riding I would have carried most of my weight on the split between my thumb and forefinger on the hoods and not pulled the brakes on so forcefully as to lock the front wheel. So perhaps cyclocross bikes should be set-up completely like a cross bike? The trouble is that the extremely wide ratio rear derailleurs use a slightly different shifter ratio and so drop bar shifters won't work -at least on a Shimano rear derailleur. Also it is difficult to get a drop bar shifter that handles hydraulic disks and although the TRP CX-9 V-brakes are good the disks are noticeably better. |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets Yet Again
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets Yet Again
On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 08:10:03 +1000, James
wrote: On 07/06/16 06:18, wrote: snip Glad you were not more seriously injured. Ditto. Helmet aside- broken collar bone, separated shoulder, broken ribs, etc. I separated my shoulder back in 1998 in a track crash and broke my right elbow in 2013 on a trail. My worst injuries to date. Lots of things can get hurt when crashing a bike... |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets Yet Again
On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 9:25:37 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 08:10:03 +1000, James wrote: On 07/06/16 06:18, wrote: snip Glad you were not more seriously injured. Ditto. Helmet aside- broken collar bone, separated shoulder, broken ribs, etc. I separated my shoulder back in 1998 in a track crash and broke my right elbow in 2013 on a trail. My worst injuries to date. Lots of things can get hurt when crashing a bike... I have been in some pretty horrendous crashes on the track on motorcycles and lots of crashes on bikes. It helps having bones MUCH heavier than normal people. I have never broken any bones. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets Yet Again
On 2016-06-06 13:18, wrote:
Yesterday I took out my Redline. As reported here, last Friday I took out my Ridley with it's new TRP CX-9 V-brakes on it and did a specific course with a lot of climbing and a LONG downhill to test the braking. The little over 22 miles took me 4 hours including about a half hour stop at a bike shop for a long rest. On the same course with the Redline the bike was obviously much faster. Why that would be I'm not sure. Could it be because I was just over the course and have more familiarity with it? That's unlikely since I do the climbing part of the course fairly often. At the top I started down a long (more or less) straight and steep downhill of about two miles of length. The drop in this two miles is 1000 feet. There are some shallow spots along here so the steeper parts are probably 16% or so. The Redline with the disks gives you a sense of power so I could descend faster. The ground is relatively soft and has a LOT of rain ruts in it from this last winter. Some are as deep as six inches so you have to be watchful how you hit them. I passed a bunch of full suspension guys battling up this hard but not impossible climb. In a smooth spot I passed the tail end charley and was moving along at maybe 18 or 20 mph ... Interesting, finally another XC rider who does that. Some folks here almost accused me of lying when I wrote about 15-20mph trail speed (which I find normal). No kidding. Probably all slowpokes when on dirt :-) ... over some smooth rocks and at the other end there was a deep rut that i missed while paying attention to the MTB guy. I thought you were going to talk about a pretty MTB woman :-) As I hit the rut I was thrown slightly forward and grabbed the bars tighter. I have this bike fitted with flat bars because the hydraulic disks are much easier to get for them. Unfortunately grabbing the bars tighter when you have your hands over the brake levers on a flat bar means you apply the disks. And it was hard enough to lock the front wheel solid. Ouch! I always try to have at the most two fingers on the left hydraulic handle. That requires a deliberate hard pull to lock up the front. But I have messed up such a situation for a different reason. Switched from a 26" HT to a 29" FS. So I thought "Ah, that new bike will easily take those ruts with it's 29 inch wheels". It didn't and OTB I went, followed by the bike slamming into me. Now my brand new bike was scraped up and so was I. I remember screaming, "OH ****" as the bike rotated over the front wheel. At the top with the height of my head and the downhill part of the hill I must have been 10' above the ground. I came down face first towards the ground. And as I've been stressing here - I rolled by body in such a manner that I landed on my hip, knee, shoulder and elbow. The landing shock also caused by helmet to strike the ground. Roll training is excellent. I got that as a kid during judo lessons and later with parachuting. The MTB guy stopped looked around and saw my bike laying on top of me and asked, "Are you OK?" I'm afraid I wasn't very civil to a question like that at that moment. I kicked the bike off of me and he helped me to my feet. That this was a perfectly straight rotation was demonstrated by the fact that the fingernails on my right hand had jammed into the ground and tried to lift the nails on my middle and ring finger. We used my water bottle to wash the blood off, I thanked him for his assistance and I continues down the mountain with a great deal more care. Though I was hurting here and there I didn't seem to be in any extreme pain so I didn't stop at the ER to get a looking over. For me there'd also be the outrageous deductible and their hyper-inflationary rates that sometimes motivate me not to see medical attention. That can easily cost the equivalent of a new mountain bike. I stopped at Endless Cycles and washed the injuries off a little more with antibacterial soap they keep on hand for people like me. My front disk was squeaking and Chris the chief mechanic threw it on the rack and slightly straightened the disk and the wheel which were very slightly out. Endless Cycles is really a great shop. Since I didn't feel too bad I went over another 300 foot climb on the way home. When I got home I looked at my helmet since I was developing a headache. There was a VERY slight depression about one inch above my ear when the side impact caused my head to hit the flat rock I landed on. This is what helmets are good for and why I wear a helmet. Very slight injury avoidance. Helmets will not save your life but they most certainly can save you annoying injuries. They can save lives. I've seen one where the styrofoam was almost fully compressed and the guy spent some time in intensive care. He hit rocks with his head at high speed. Not sure if he'd be still around without that helmet. Many people laugh at styrofoam, usually unaware that that material is also inside the bumpers of their fancy new car. For good reason. Styrofoam can transform a lot of impact energy into heat in fractions of a second. As for the flat bar - I _think_ that if I was riding a drop bar that when I was riding I would have carried most of my weight on the split between my thumb and forefinger on the hoods and not pulled the brakes on so forcefully as to lock the front wheel. So perhaps cyclocross bikes should be set-up completely like a cross bike? On the hoods? That could cause a hand to slip off when hitting a deep rut. The trouble is that the extremely wide ratio rear derailleurs use a slightly different shifter ratio and so drop bar shifters won't work -at least on a Shimano rear derailleur. Also it is difficult to get a drop bar shifter that handles hydraulic disks and although the TRP CX-9 V-brakes are good the disks are noticeably better. Rim brakes are IMHO totally inadequate when it comes to riding in soggy turf or in the rain. I've had my comeuppance on my old MTB. Approaching a curve a bit fast, hit the V-brakes, other than a loud grinding noise .... nothing. I normally don't but I think I also let off an expletive at that moment. Discussion is open. Let the contest for the best insults begin. I hope the headache is gone by now. If not it might be time to see a doc. My last hard crash was about 1-1/2 years ago. Completely my fault, pilots call it "get-home-itis". I was late and so I stepped on it. 20mph ... 21 .. 22 .. woohoo ... THWOCK ... *BAM* For some reason a Manzanita tree branch suddenly "jumped" into my path, it grabbed my hydration pack, yanked me out of the saddle. I hit the ground hard. Sometimes I still see my MTB roll off into the sunset in slow motion, riderless, then hitting some rocks and violently rolling over. I was all rashed up. The next morning I had to go on an international flight and the folks at the airport looked at my arms and face as if I had a communicable disease. The worst was the scraped-up belly but they couldn't see that. Every piece of clothing hurt. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets Yet Again
On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 4:36:22 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
Interesting, finally another XC rider who does that. Some folks here almost accused me of lying when I wrote about 15-20mph trail speed (which I find normal). No kidding. Probably all slowpokes when on dirt :-) I have a speedo on my bike so I know I go that fast. Though I admit this is usually only in areas I'm familiar with and know. I thought you were going to talk about a pretty MTB woman :-) I was well past him but thinking about perhaps more coming up the climb so I was staying to the right though the smoothest path was to the left. Ouch! I always try to have at the most two fingers on the left hydraulic handle. That requires a deliberate hard pull to lock up the front. But I have messed up such a situation for a different reason. Switched from a 26" HT to a 29" FS. So I thought "Ah, that new bike will easily take those ruts with it's 29 inch wheels". It didn't and OTB I went, followed by the bike slamming into me. Now my brand new bike was scraped up and so was I. Live and learn I suppose. When I first started using the disks I was careful but with familiarity comes contempt as the saying goes. When I was riding a FS 29er I did not hesitate to go over this stuff at speed and let the suspension absorb it all. Roll training is excellent. I got that as a kid during judo lessons and later with parachuting. Well I did everything from boxing to Akido to Judo but being naturally clumsy as a kid probably did more than all the rest put together. For me there'd also be the outrageous deductible and their hyper-inflationary rates that sometimes motivate me not to see medical attention. That can easily cost the equivalent of a new mountain bike. Nevertheless if I though I'd broken anything I would have stopped. They can save lives. I've seen one where the styrofoam was almost fully compressed and the guy spent some time in intensive care. He hit rocks with his head at high speed. Not sure if he'd be still around without that helmet. Many people laugh at styrofoam, usually unaware that that material is also inside the bumpers of their fancy new car. For good reason. Styrofoam can transform a lot of impact energy into heat in fractions of a second. I have studied safety helmets extensively from the very first laboratory testing. I was the safety director for the American Federation of Motorcyclists and took that responsibility quite seriously. I am aware of what they can do and what they cannot do. The area in which they can have a "life saving" effect is so narrow that I consider it impossible to meet and not exceed. And AT those levels you end up like I did - with a concussion so bad that death should have resulted. Without one of the best neurologists in the world it probably would have. On the hoods? That could cause a hand to slip off when hitting a deep rut.. With drop bars and road shifters you proceed MUCH slower than with flat bars. You also pick a path through the ruts in such a manner that you're on the smoothest possible path. Rim brakes are IMHO totally inadequate when it comes to riding in soggy turf or in the rain. I've had my comeuppance on my old MTB. Approaching a curve a bit fast, hit the V-brakes, other than a loud grinding noise ... nothing. I normally don't but I think I also let off an expletive at that moment. California does not have "soggy turf" and we don't ride in the rain. And when I have I do not find it fun which is the whole point of riding. I hope the headache is gone by now. If not it might be time to see a doc. It turned out to be only a temporary headache possibly attached to the fact that in the crash it slightly tore off my two left middle fingernails. Luckily I have fast growing nails and one is nearly recovered and the other has to have a blood blister grow out. I imagine in another week I'll be back to normal. The skin is already healed over and I've been on road rides though I'm as weak as a kitten since I also pulled the muscle that lifts my left leg while sitting. So I can't pedal circles. Every piece of clothing hurt. Luckily the ground - even the hard part I landed on - was composed of compressed dust so when I landed anything covered by clothing had minimal skin damage. For three days the muscles that you use when your raise your arms in a victory salute were so tired they might as well hurt. From that I assume I landed with my arms partially raised to protect my head and rolled off in that manner. Try not to get in any more crashes yourself. Tom Kunich Digital and Embedded Systems designer and programmer. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets Yet Again
On 2016-06-13 10:39, wrote:
On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 4:36:22 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: Interesting, finally another XC rider who does that. Some folks here almost accused me of lying when I wrote about 15-20mph trail speed (which I find normal). No kidding. Probably all slowpokes when on dirt :-) I have a speedo on my bike so I know I go that fast. Though I admit this is usually only in areas I'm familiar with and know. Same here. There are trail sections I routinely travel at 15-20mph. For those in this NG who still do not understand the word "routinely": That means almost every time I ride that section :-) I only slow down on those stretches if there's horses or hikers around. Or if a KTM heads in opposite direction (illegally ...). I thought you were going to talk about a pretty MTB woman :-) I was well past him but thinking about perhaps more coming up the climb so I was staying to the right though the smoothest path was to the left. That's the downside of singletrack. Sometimes I ask how many and often MTB-riders will announce without asking "two more". I try to do the same. Ouch! I always try to have at the most two fingers on the left hydraulic handle. That requires a deliberate hard pull to lock up the front. But I have messed up such a situation for a different reason. Switched from a 26" HT to a 29" FS. So I thought "Ah, that new bike will easily take those ruts with it's 29 inch wheels". It didn't and OTB I went, followed by the bike slamming into me. Now my brand new bike was scraped up and so was I. Live and learn I suppose. When I first started using the disks I was careful but with familiarity comes contempt as the saying goes. When I was riding a FS 29er I did not hesitate to go over this stuff at speed and let the suspension absorb it all. So did I. But I am slowing a bit because after adding panniers and all I have bottomed out a few times and that's an awful "suffering sound" from the bike. Can't put more than 220psi in the shock because then it gets too hard (though it is rated to 300psi). The fork sits at 115psi and 120psi is its limit. [...] They can save lives. I've seen one where the styrofoam was almost fully compressed and the guy spent some time in intensive care. He hit rocks with his head at high speed. Not sure if he'd be still around without that helmet. Many people laugh at styrofoam, usually unaware that that material is also inside the bumpers of their fancy new car. For good reason. Styrofoam can transform a lot of impact energy into heat in fractions of a second. I have studied safety helmets extensively from the very first laboratory testing. I was the safety director for the American Federation of Motorcyclists and took that responsibility quite seriously. I am aware of what they can do and what they cannot do. The area in which they can have a "life saving" effect is so narrow that I consider it impossible to meet and not exceed. And AT those levels you end up like I did - with a concussion so bad that death should have resulted. Without one of the best neurologists in the world it probably would have. Wow, you came really close then. Knocking on wood I never did (so far). On the hoods? That could cause a hand to slip off when hitting a deep rut. With drop bars and road shifters you proceed MUCH slower than with flat bars. You also pick a path through the ruts in such a manner that you're on the smoothest possible path. Probably true. I could not imagine going up the trail to Placerville on a cyclocross bike and with drop bars. It would be torture. If my road bike ever gives up I'll buy a cyclocross bike anyhow because of the better brakes and sturdiness. Some of my regular non-MTB routes contain nasty "roads". Rim brakes are IMHO totally inadequate when it comes to riding in soggy turf or in the rain. I've had my comeuppance on my old MTB. Approaching a curve a bit fast, hit the V-brakes, other than a loud grinding noise ... nothing. I normally don't but I think I also let off an expletive at that moment. California does not have "soggy turf" and we don't ride in the rain. The you've never been here in the Sierra in winter. The worst was when a rider from Oregon came visiting and we tore around a curve only to see that the trail was all flooded. No chance to stop. I stepped on it and got through. He didn't and became stuck smack in the middle. There have been times where I became stuck on that ride half a dozen times because the clay clump near the BB stopped the rear wheel hard. Had to poke it out with a stick until it was plugged again a few miles farther. And when I have I do not find it fun which is the whole point of riding. I sometimes become a kid again when it's soggy. My wife does not think it's funny though (she does not ride). "I don't want to see this mud-dripping bike in the garage!" I hope the headache is gone by now. If not it might be time to see a doc. It turned out to be only a temporary headache possibly attached to the fact that in the crash it slightly tore off my two left middle fingernails. Luckily I have fast growing nails and one is nearly recovered and the other has to have a blood blister grow out. I imagine in another week I'll be back to normal. The skin is already healed over and I've been on road rides though I'm as weak as a kitten since I also pulled the muscle that lifts my left leg while sitting. So I can't pedal circles. I saw one diehard road biker who went for miles with his right foot wedged above the derailer in a resting position and only pedaling with his left leg. Couldn't believe it. Every piece of clothing hurt. Luckily the ground - even the hard part I landed on - was composed of compressed dust so when I landed anything covered by clothing had minimal skin damage. For three days the muscles that you use when your raise your arms in a victory salute were so tired they might as well hurt. From that I assume I landed with my arms partially raised to protect my head and rolled off in that manner. Try not to get in any more crashes yourself. Yes, especially now that I am older I find myself riding more careful than, for example, folks who also ride dirt bikes. And they crash more than I do. Tom Kunich Digital and Embedded Systems designer and programmer. Ah, similar trade. I am in hardware design but mostly analog stuff. Anything uC or DSP on there I tend to hand off to folks like you, it's not my turf. A local rep for microwave semiconductors said: "If I go out for an MTB ride and haven't crashed hard at least once it wasn't an interesting ride". And he is not much younger than me. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets Yet Again
On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 11:15:09 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
Ah, similar trade. I am in hardware design but mostly analog stuff. Anything uC or DSP on there I tend to hand off to folks like you, it's not my turf. A local rep for microwave semiconductors said: "If I go out for an MTB ride and haven't crashed hard at least once it wasn't an interesting ride". And he is not much younger than me. I started out with analog designs before there was much in the way of digital. But I always had to think too hard about frequency response and the different component sizes that calculate the same. So when I need analog design now I always call in Charley Button who got an Emmy Award a couple of years ago for lifetime achievement in sound recording. He essentially invented the outdoor sound system that doesn't echo. He started with The Grateful Dead. We've done several systems together. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets Yet Again
On 2016-06-15 09:35, wrote:
On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 11:15:09 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: Ah, similar trade. I am in hardware design but mostly analog stuff. Anything uC or DSP on there I tend to hand off to folks like you, it's not my turf. A local rep for microwave semiconductors said: "If I go out for an MTB ride and haven't crashed hard at least once it wasn't an interesting ride". And he is not much younger than me. I started out with analog designs before there was much in the way of digital. But I always had to think too hard about frequency response and the different component sizes that calculate the same. After a while it becomes instinct. Nowadays we have lots of helpers and the best of them is the (free) simulation software LTSpice. Also quite useful for some timing-critical digital stuff. When it goes up into the gigeehoitzes. So when I need analog design now I always call in Charley Button who got an Emmy Award a couple of years ago for lifetime achievement in sound recording. He essentially invented the outdoor sound system that doesn't echo. He started with The Grateful Dead. We've done several systems together. That must be fun. I once worked on med tech designs with a former member of a big US rock band (but he wants to remain very private about it). -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Road bike helmets vs. mountain bike helmets | OccasionalFlyer | Techniques | 37 | August 31st 14 03:50 AM |
Cycle Helmets vs Motor Cycle Helmets | Bret Cahill[_3_] | UK | 1 | August 21st 12 06:07 PM |
Equestrian helmets as bicycle helmets? | [email protected][_2_] | General | 19 | December 27th 09 02:56 AM |
Helmets week on my new blog, a question regarding helmets and my blog. | 101bike | Racing | 7 | March 18th 06 03:14 AM |
Helmets helmets helmets and weird heads | Tamyka Bell | Australia | 3 | November 30th 04 11:25 AM |