removing rust from bikes and guns

Are there any tricks to this?

I have the usual stuff: sandpaper, emery cloth,
and brushes (nylon, brass, and steel), in some
creative shapes including the bottle brush,
a Y-shaped thing etc.

I found it is beneficial to use the vise for
the wheels, especially in combination with the
emery cloth as it can enclose the hub shell.

Rotating the wheel might save some time.

Today I spent almost the entire day removing
dust from a Favorit bike from Czechoslovakia.
It came with Torpedo rear rim and wire tho (and
not the "original" copies they did). Perhaps it
was put there at a later stage.

Czechoslovakia was dissolved in 1992/1993 so
I suppose it is at least 23 years, 5 months,
and 6 days old, unless of course it took them
some time to reconfigure their machines to
show "Czech Republic", right?

Anyway the age of the bike should not be blamed
for the ridiculous amount of rust it had.
But now it is all shiny!

Also, as a side not, I'm reading a book on the
French foreign legion, namely (in Swedish)

@book{soldaten-som-inte-kunde-dö,
author = {Knut Häll},
ISBN = {91-36-02636-0},
publisher = {LT},
title = {Soldaten som inte kunde dö: svensk äventyrare i Främlingslegionen},
year = 1987
}

and the author tells a story which begins with
them removing dust from their weapons ~"tho it
was forbidden to use sandpaper or emery cloth,
we did it anyway".

Why do you think that is?

Is it to force people not to handle the weapon
so rust will not appear in the first place?

Or are there disadvantages to sandpaper/cloth -
perhaps fragments get into the machinery and
spoil the gun?

--
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
- so far: 48 Blogomatic articles -

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 00:39:21 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Are there any tricks to this?

I have the usual stuff: sandpaper, emery cloth,
and brushes (nylon, brass, and steel), in some
creative shapes including the bottle brush,
a Y-shaped thing etc.

I found it is beneficial to use the vise for
the wheels, especially in combination with the
emery cloth as it can enclose the hub shell.

Rotating the wheel might save some time.

Today I spent almost the entire day removing
dust from a Favorit bike from Czechoslovakia.
It came with Torpedo rear rim and wire tho (and
not the "original" copies they did). Perhaps it
was put there at a later stage.

Czechoslovakia was dissolved in 1992/1993 so
I suppose it is at least 23 years, 5 months,
and 6 days old, unless of course it took them
some time to reconfigure their machines to
show "Czech Republic", right?

Anyway the age of the bike should not be blamed
for the ridiculous amount of rust it had.
But now it is all shiny!

Also, as a side not, I'm reading a book on the
French foreign legion, namely (in Swedish)

@book{soldaten-som-inte-kunde-dö,
author = {Knut Häll},
ISBN = {91-36-02636-0},
publisher = {LT},
title = {Soldaten som inte kunde dö: svensk äventyrare i Främlingslegionen},
year = 1987
}

and the author tells a story which begins with
them removing dust from their weapons ~"tho it
was forbidden to use sandpaper or emery cloth,
we did it anyway".

Why do you think that is?

Is it to force people not to handle the weapon
so rust will not appear in the first place?

Or are there disadvantages to sandpaper/cloth -
perhaps fragments get into the machinery and
spoil the gun?

Well, sandpaper removes material, so ultimately, if cleaned enough
times, the item would disappear :-) My grandmother had a "kitchen
knife" that she had, she told me, since she was first married that
from sharpening had worn down to a very thin and narrow blade.

As for books, it depends on what era was being described. The
Chassport 1866 appears to be bright polished steel and cleaning it
with sand paper wouldn't effect the finish a great deal while one
photo of the Lebel 1886 seems to show a blued finish and cleaning with
sand paper would probably destroy the finish.

As for bicycles. If the bike is disassembled I have had good luck
cleaning steel parts with an acid bath. I commonly use a very strong
bathroom tile cleaner sold here that has as much as 20% hydrochloride
acid.

Note that this stuff is dangerous. If splashed on you it will cause
severe burns and will ultimately erode steel completely, and I said
"disassembled" because after the acid has done its work one needs to
wash the acid mix entirely off using water and then coat with some
sort of oil, WD-40 works pretty well, as being chemically clean will
rust almost immediately.

Do not use this stuff for aluminum parts as it erodes aluminum very
rapidly and also creates hydrogen gas which is highly inflammable -
see Zeppelin+Hindenburg.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 00:39:21 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Are there any tricks to this?

There are tricks to doing everything.

For bicycle rust, there are a variety of mechanical and chemical rust
removers. The abrasive variety work best on smooth surfaces. The
chemical variety will get into the cracks and crevases. What you use
to remove the rust is not important. What you use to prevent the rust
from coming back is very important. There are various undercoatings,
primers, phosphate based "rust reformers" and such that will provide
the necessary protection. Add paint and you're done.

Nobody paints guns, so you'll need some other kind of protection. Gun
bluing does little in the way of rust protection. Ask your question
in the gun nut forums for a better answer.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Emanuel Berg writes:

Are there any tricks to this?

I have the usual stuff: sandpaper, emery cloth,
and brushes (nylon, brass, and steel), in some
creative shapes including the bottle brush,
a Y-shaped thing etc.

I found it is beneficial to use the vise for
the wheels, especially in combination with the
emery cloth as it can enclose the hub shell.

Rotating the wheel might save some time.

Today I spent almost the entire day removing
dust from a Favorit bike from Czechoslovakia.
It came with Torpedo rear rim and wire tho (and
not the "original" copies they did). Perhaps it
was put there at a later stage.

Czechoslovakia was dissolved in 1992/1993 so
I suppose it is at least 23 years, 5 months,
and 6 days old, unless of course it took them
some time to reconfigure their machines to
show "Czech Republic", right?

Anyway the age of the bike should not be blamed
for the ridiculous amount of rust it had.
But now it is all shiny!

For removing rust I have had some success with products containing
oxalic acid, particularly one called "Barkeeper's Friend". The next
step up is phosphoric acid, "naval jelly". Some scrubbing is still
required, but better living really is attainable through chemistry.

Also, as a side not, I'm reading a book on the
French foreign legion, namely (in Swedish)

@book{soldaten-som-inte-kunde-dö,
author = {Knut Häll},
ISBN = {91-36-02636-0},
publisher = {LT},
title = {Soldaten som inte kunde dö: svensk äventyrare i Främlingslegionen},
year = 1987
}

and the author tells a story which begins with
them removing dust from their weapons ~"tho it
was forbidden to use sandpaper or emery cloth,
we did it anyway".

Why do you think that is?

Is it to force people not to handle the weapon
so rust will not appear in the first place?

Cleaning stuff all the time keeps soldiers out of mischief?

Or are there disadvantages to sandpaper/cloth -
perhaps fragments get into the machinery and
spoil the gun?

That could happen, too.

--

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 00:39:21 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:
(...)

If you can't win against rust, join those who find rust to be chique,
cool, and very in:
http://customcreationpaints.co.uk/liquid-metal/Liquid-Metal-Rustique
http://theradavist.com/2015/08/rust-never-sleeps-on-sofias-awol-touring-bike/#1
https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/rustawol/
Note that this is real rust, not an imitation rust colored paint.

Bicycle rust:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bicycle+rust

Bicycle plated with brass, copper, or zinc. I like brass:
http://www.vanheeschdesign.com
Just tear apart the bicycle, have the frame chemically stripped, send
it off to a plating shop, reassemble, and you're now fashionable.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 17:54:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

There are tricks to doing everything.

Bicycle Frame Refinishing
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/paint-prep.html

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 17:54:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 00:39:21 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Are there any tricks to this?

There are tricks to doing everything.

For bicycle rust, there are a variety of mechanical and chemical rust
removers. The abrasive variety work best on smooth surfaces. The
chemical variety will get into the cracks and crevases. What you use
to remove the rust is not important. What you use to prevent the rust
from coming back is very important. There are various undercoatings,
primers, phosphate based "rust reformers" and such that will provide
the necessary protection. Add paint and you're done.

Nobody paints guns, so you'll need some other kind of protection. Gun
bluing does little in the way of rust protection. Ask your question
in the gun nut forums for a better answer.

The Springfield muskets, both rifles and un-rifled had bright finishes
certainly from 1795 until the 1863 model. No anti-rust at all.

But he was asking about removing rust and mentioned the rifles as an
argument to using sandpaper to remove rust :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 18:59:21 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 00:39:21 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:
(...)

If you can't win against rust, join those who find rust to be chique,
cool, and very in:
http://customcreationpaints.co.uk/liquid-metal/Liquid-Metal-Rustique
http://theradavist.com/2015/08/rust-never-sleeps-on-sofias-awol-touring-bike/#1
https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/rustawol/
Note that this is real rust, not an imitation rust colored paint.

Bicycle rust:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bicycle+rust

Bicycle plated with brass, copper, or zinc. I like brass:
http://www.vanheeschdesign.com
Just tear apart the bicycle, have the frame chemically stripped, send
it off to a plating shop, reassemble, and you're now fashionable.

Plating can cause problems though. Especially in threads and other
close fitting places. :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

Search: McMaster Carr

For WIRE WHEEL BRUSH

then: automobile restoration rust removal

ALSO: PRACTICAL MACHINIST

John B. writes:

But he was asking about removing rust and
mentioned the rifles as an argument to using
sandpaper to remove rust :-)

They weren't allowed to use it but did
it anyway.

Why they did it was because it worked.

But why it wasn't allowed the book doesn't say.
Perhaps because it it were, the troops would
misuse their rifles because they could always
get them shiny again.

Or perhaps the papering spoiled the guns
(depending on to what degree it was applied and
on what parts).

If we learned the reason, it would be
interesting to see if it is applicable to bikes
as well.

--
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
- so far: 48 Blogomatic articles -