At least 5 dead , 9 injured after pickup truck hits bicyclists from BEHIND

On 2016-06-10 10:02, Duane wrote:
On 10/06/2016 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-10 07:54, Duane wrote:
On 10/06/2016 10:28 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-07 21:56, Sir Ridesalot wrote:



"KALAMAZOO COUNTY, Mich. (NEWSCHANNEL 3) - Newschannel 3 has learned
that at least five people have been killed on North Westnedge, near
Markin Glen Park, just north of Kalamazoo, after a group of
bicyclists were struck from behind by a blue Chevy pickup truck.

It happened around 6:30 p.m. Tuesday evening.

All of those killed were bicyclists riding down the road when a
pickup truck came up behind them, and struck the group."

More here

http://wwmt.com/news/local/multiple-...illed-in-crash

Condolences to the victims' families and friends.


Very sad.

One question is whether we will ever hear the results of the
investigation. Such as lane positions, lighting of the riders,
visibility, level of intoxication of the driver, speed of the truck,
and
so on.

Without such follow-up it's hard to learn from these case. I have even
seen people flat-out deny that it was a non-intersection lane case in a
similar deadly crash here in Sacramento. No follow-up info as usual,
zero, but it all points to a cyclist having been in the left lane (two
per direction) preparing to turn off somewhere when a drunk driver in a
truck smashed into her and killed her.


Read the report. It was not an intersection and they were apparently on
the shoulder.


Please quote where it said that.



It was stated in the original report posted here.


It was not. See link above. Please quote.

[...]


What is there to learn here? Maybe if it was drunk driving and the guy
had priors or maybe if the guy was psychotic and off his meds. But from
the riders' points of view what is there to learn?


A lot. Just one example: I found that the number of times I got into
critical situations because of inattentive (or possibly soused) drivers
has greatly dropped off since I have bright lighting. One of the reasons
is simple. If a driver, especially a drunk one, sees red flashing lights
in the distance one of the first reactions will likely be "Oh no, cops!"
which in many cases will make them slow down.



Give me a ****ing break. At least 14 people in front of him on bikes,
and he would have seen them if only they had a light?


Quite possibly yes. On a straight stretch of road drivers often see only
the last rider or maybe the last 2-3. It is important to know these things.

My bright lights are a reason why I am sometimes asked to ride last in a
group. Because that affords the whole group better safety.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2016-06-10 10:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/10/2016 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
I found that the number of times I got into
critical situations because of inattentive (or possibly soused) drivers
has greatly dropped off since I have bright lighting. One of the reasons
is simple. If a driver, especially a drunk one, sees red flashing lights
in the distance one of the first reactions will likely be "Oh no, cops!"
which in many cases will make them slow down.

Sounds like you must have gotten into many "critical situations" before.
Otherwise you couldn't know they had dropped off greatly.


I hear a car coming from the rear and it is very easy to discern whether
the braking process is a hard one or a normal one. Now they are almost
all normal, typically where people just let go of the accelerator pedal.


To me, that's very odd. I can't remember the last time I got in a
"critical situation" on my bike. Perhaps that has something to do with
riding style?


No, with the roads out here and I am not the only one. I've met people
who even invested in Dinotte rear lights to the tune of more than $100
and reported similar results.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 6/10/2016 1:17 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-10 10:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/10/2016 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
I found that the number of times I got into
critical situations because of inattentive (or possibly soused) drivers
has greatly dropped off since I have bright lighting. One of the reasons
is simple. If a driver, especially a drunk one, sees red flashing lights
in the distance one of the first reactions will likely be "Oh no, cops!"
which in many cases will make them slow down.

Sounds like you must have gotten into many "critical situations" before.
Otherwise you couldn't know they had dropped off greatly.


I hear a car coming from the rear and it is very easy to discern whether
the braking process is a hard one or a normal one. Now they are almost
all normal, typically where people just let go of the accelerator pedal.


To me, that's very odd. I can't remember the last time I got in a
"critical situation" on my bike. Perhaps that has something to do with
riding style?


No, with the roads out here and I am not the only one. I've met people
who even invested in Dinotte rear lights to the tune of more than $100
and reported similar results.

Look up "confirmation bias."


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 1:17:17 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-10 10:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/10/2016 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
I found that the number of times I got into
critical situations because of inattentive (or possibly soused) drivers
has greatly dropped off since I have bright lighting. One of the reasons
is simple. If a driver, especially a drunk one, sees red flashing lights
in the distance one of the first reactions will likely be "Oh no, cops!"
which in many cases will make them slow down.

Sounds like you must have gotten into many "critical situations" before.
Otherwise you couldn't know they had dropped off greatly.


I hear a car coming from the rear and it is very easy to discern whether
the braking process is a hard one or a normal one. Now they are almost
all normal, typically where people just let go of the accelerator pedal.


To me, that's very odd. I can't remember the last time I got in a
"critical situation" on my bike. Perhaps that has something to do with
riding style?


No, with the roads out here and I am not the only one. I've met people
who even invested in Dinotte rear lights to the tune of more than $100
and reported similar results.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

What if the car/truck is coming up behind you and NOT braking?

Cheers

On 2016-06-10 10:40, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 1:17:17 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-10 10:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/10/2016 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
I found that the number of times I got into
critical situations because of inattentive (or possibly soused) drivers
has greatly dropped off since I have bright lighting. One of the reasons
is simple. If a driver, especially a drunk one, sees red flashing lights
in the distance one of the first reactions will likely be "Oh no, cops!"
which in many cases will make them slow down.

Sounds like you must have gotten into many "critical situations" before.
Otherwise you couldn't know they had dropped off greatly.


I hear a car coming from the rear and it is very easy to discern whether
the braking process is a hard one or a normal one. Now they are almost
all normal, typically where people just let go of the accelerator pedal.


To me, that's very odd. I can't remember the last time I got in a
"critical situation" on my bike. Perhaps that has something to do with
riding style?


No, with the roads out here and I am not the only one. I've met people
who even invested in Dinotte rear lights to the tune of more than $100
and reported similar results.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

What if the car/truck is coming up behind you and NOT braking?


You typically die or get hurt badly. Hence my preference for segregated
bike paths.

The change of that happening while riding on roads is reduced with
bright lighting. Hence I ride with daytime lights. Always.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2016-06-10 10:22, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/10/2016 1:17 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-10 10:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/10/2016 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
I found that the number of times I got into
critical situations because of inattentive (or possibly soused) drivers
has greatly dropped off since I have bright lighting. One of the
reasons
is simple. If a driver, especially a drunk one, sees red flashing
lights
in the distance one of the first reactions will likely be "Oh no,
cops!"
which in many cases will make them slow down.

Sounds like you must have gotten into many "critical situations" before.
Otherwise you couldn't know they had dropped off greatly.


I hear a car coming from the rear and it is very easy to discern whether
the braking process is a hard one or a normal one. Now they are almost
all normal, typically where people just let go of the accelerator pedal.


To me, that's very odd. I can't remember the last time I got in a
"critical situation" on my bike. Perhaps that has something to do with
riding style?


No, with the roads out here and I am not the only one. I've met people
who even invested in Dinotte rear lights to the tune of more than $100
and reported similar results.

Look up "confirmation bias."


No need to. I know it works. So do government agencies which is why
motorcycles must by law operate with daytime lights.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 10/06/2016 1:40 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 1:17:17 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-10 10:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/10/2016 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
I found that the number of times I got into
critical situations because of inattentive (or possibly soused) drivers
has greatly dropped off since I have bright lighting. One of the reasons
is simple. If a driver, especially a drunk one, sees red flashing lights
in the distance one of the first reactions will likely be "Oh no, cops!"
which in many cases will make them slow down.

Sounds like you must have gotten into many "critical situations" before.
Otherwise you couldn't know they had dropped off greatly.


I hear a car coming from the rear and it is very easy to discern whether
the braking process is a hard one or a normal one. Now they are almost
all normal, typically where people just let go of the accelerator pedal.


To me, that's very odd. I can't remember the last time I got in a
"critical situation" on my bike. Perhaps that has something to do with
riding style?


No, with the roads out here and I am not the only one. I've met people
who even invested in Dinotte rear lights to the tune of more than $100
and reported similar results.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

What if the car/truck is coming up behind you and NOT braking?

Cheers


As seems likely in this case since he hit 9 of them.

On 10/06/2016 1:12 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-10 10:02, Duane wrote:
On 10/06/2016 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-10 07:54, Duane wrote:
On 10/06/2016 10:28 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-07 21:56, Sir Ridesalot wrote:



"KALAMAZOO COUNTY, Mich. (NEWSCHANNEL 3) - Newschannel 3 has learned
that at least five people have been killed on North Westnedge, near
Markin Glen Park, just north of Kalamazoo, after a group of
bicyclists were struck from behind by a blue Chevy pickup truck.

It happened around 6:30 p.m. Tuesday evening.

All of those killed were bicyclists riding down the road when a
pickup truck came up behind them, and struck the group."

More here

http://wwmt.com/news/local/multiple-...illed-in-crash

Condolences to the victims' families and friends.


Very sad.

One question is whether we will ever hear the results of the
investigation. Such as lane positions, lighting of the riders,
visibility, level of intoxication of the driver, speed of the truck,
and
so on.

Without such follow-up it's hard to learn from these case. I have even
seen people flat-out deny that it was a non-intersection lane case
in a
similar deadly crash here in Sacramento. No follow-up info as usual,
zero, but it all points to a cyclist having been in the left lane (two
per direction) preparing to turn off somewhere when a drunk driver
in a
truck smashed into her and killed her.


Read the report. It was not an intersection and they were
apparently on
the shoulder.


Please quote where it said that.



It was stated in the original report posted here.


It was not. See link above. Please quote.

[...]


http://ktla.com/2016/06/07/at-least-...s-in-michigan/

Sorry, Andrew Muzi posted this at the same time. It's in this one.

And regardless, they were hit from behind on a straight road.


What is there to learn here? Maybe if it was drunk driving and the guy
had priors or maybe if the guy was psychotic and off his meds. But
from
the riders' points of view what is there to learn?


A lot. Just one example: I found that the number of times I got into
critical situations because of inattentive (or possibly soused) drivers
has greatly dropped off since I have bright lighting. One of the reasons
is simple. If a driver, especially a drunk one, sees red flashing lights
in the distance one of the first reactions will likely be "Oh no, cops!"
which in many cases will make them slow down.



Give me a ****ing break. At least 14 people in front of him on bikes,
and he would have seen them if only they had a light?


Quite possibly yes. On a straight stretch of road drivers often see only
the last rider or maybe the last 2-3. It is important to know these things.

My bright lights are a reason why I am sometimes asked to ride last in a
group. Because that affords the whole group better safety.


Having you behind them? Maybe your jams are too loud when you are in
front of them. - sorry, could not resist.

On 2016-06-10 10:47, Duane wrote:
On 10/06/2016 1:40 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 1:17:17 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-10 10:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/10/2016 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
I found that the number of times I got into
critical situations because of inattentive (or possibly soused)
drivers
has greatly dropped off since I have bright lighting. One of the
reasons
is simple. If a driver, especially a drunk one, sees red flashing
lights
in the distance one of the first reactions will likely be "Oh no,
cops!"
which in many cases will make them slow down.

Sounds like you must have gotten into many "critical situations"
before.
Otherwise you couldn't know they had dropped off greatly.


I hear a car coming from the rear and it is very easy to discern whether
the braking process is a hard one or a normal one. Now they are almost
all normal, typically where people just let go of the accelerator pedal.


To me, that's very odd. I can't remember the last time I got in a
"critical situation" on my bike. Perhaps that has something to do with
riding style?


No, with the roads out here and I am not the only one. I've met people
who even invested in Dinotte rear lights to the tune of more than $100
and reported similar results.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

What if the car/truck is coming up behind you and NOT braking?

Cheers


As seems likely in this case since he hit 9 of them.


No. We don't know that.

Quote from OP link: "Witnesses in the area tell us they saw the group
and heard the squealing of tires".

We do not know whether this squealing started before impact, after
impact or whenever. Police investigators will know the answer. But we
might never because nowadays journalism typically ends with the key
story and that's it. There needs to be a follow-up.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2016-06-10 10:53, Duane wrote:
On 10/06/2016 1:12 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-10 10:02, Duane wrote:
On 10/06/2016 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-10 07:54, Duane wrote:
On 10/06/2016 10:28 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-07 21:56, Sir Ridesalot wrote:



"KALAMAZOO COUNTY, Mich. (NEWSCHANNEL 3) - Newschannel 3 has learned
that at least five people have been killed on North Westnedge, near
Markin Glen Park, just north of Kalamazoo, after a group of
bicyclists were struck from behind by a blue Chevy pickup truck.

It happened around 6:30 p.m. Tuesday evening.

All of those killed were bicyclists riding down the road when a
pickup truck came up behind them, and struck the group."

More here

http://wwmt.com/news/local/multiple-...illed-in-crash

Condolences to the victims' families and friends.


Very sad.

One question is whether we will ever hear the results of the
investigation. Such as lane positions, lighting of the riders,
visibility, level of intoxication of the driver, speed of the truck,
and
so on.

Without such follow-up it's hard to learn from these case. I have
even
seen people flat-out deny that it was a non-intersection lane case
in a
similar deadly crash here in Sacramento. No follow-up info as usual,
zero, but it all points to a cyclist having been in the left lane
(two
per direction) preparing to turn off somewhere when a drunk driver
in a
truck smashed into her and killed her.


Read the report. It was not an intersection and they were
apparently on
the shoulder.


Please quote where it said that.



It was stated in the original report posted here.


It was not. See link above. Please quote.

[...]


http://ktla.com/2016/06/07/at-least-...s-in-michigan/


Sorry, Andrew Muzi posted this at the same time. It's in this one.


Ok, thanks. If the county attorney said that he must know since he
likely has access to the police report.


And regardless, they were hit from behind on a straight road.


Sure. But there are questions. Did the probably intoxicated driver not
see them at all? Did he see them too late? Did the last rider have a
highly visible rear light? Or did the driver deliberately run into them?

Some of those questions could be answered at this time.


What is there to learn here? Maybe if it was drunk driving and the
guy
had priors or maybe if the guy was psychotic and off his meds. But
from
the riders' points of view what is there to learn?


A lot. Just one example: I found that the number of times I got into
critical situations because of inattentive (or possibly soused) drivers
has greatly dropped off since I have bright lighting. One of the
reasons
is simple. If a driver, especially a drunk one, sees red flashing
lights
in the distance one of the first reactions will likely be "Oh no,
cops!"
which in many cases will make them slow down.



Give me a ****ing break. At least 14 people in front of him on bikes,
and he would have seen them if only they had a light?


Quite possibly yes. On a straight stretch of road drivers often see only
the last rider or maybe the last 2-3. It is important to know these
things.

My bright lights are a reason why I am sometimes asked to ride last in a
group. Because that affords the whole group better safety.


Having you behind them? Maybe your jams are too loud when you are in
front of them. - sorry, could not resist.


Not sure what you mean with jams.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/