#31
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Jobst
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 3:02:23 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 1:17:46 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 12:14:44 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 11:09:25 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/1/2017 1:10 PM, wrote: On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote: On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections? Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes. free. You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities. The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements. Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU MRI units are more common in Japan than the US. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries. Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They were developed to display interior muscle composition and they really aren't very effective without contrast material injected into the proper area. There are two and a half times as many doctors per 100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000 in Thailand. What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine? No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing. IOW, Tom doesn't want to measure results. Things like duration of life, infant mortality, percent of GDP devoted to paying for health care, cost of health care to employers, etc. mean nothing. He wants to count doctors - or anything that can partially justify his fundamentalist beliefs. Regarding efficiency - One of those sites had this: "On indicators of efficiency, the U.S. ranks last among the 11 countries, with the U.K. and Sweden ranking first and second, respectively. The U.S. has poor performance on measures of national health expenditures and administrative costs as well as on measures of administrative hassles, avoidable emergency room use, and duplicative medical testing." I've recounted the months of bills, phone calls and arguments I went through to avoid paying for blood tests that were supposed to be covered by our insurance. The bills had been submitted by the lab to the insurer at least three times. I suspect at least 15 man-hours (not counting mine) were spent investigating why this obviously qualified bill was being rejected. Ultimately it was covered, but the time cost for the lab and the insurance company were significant. All other westernized countries do better. Free market fundamentalists can't admit that. Let me guess - you're back to wearing white makeup, floppy shoes and a red nose. Mortality rates do NOT tell you general health. It tells you life expectancy. The life expectancy in the USA is much lower than other countries not because Americans have shorter lifespans but because the statistics are derived from the population as a whole meaning that they count illegal aliens, Chinese and Indian immigrants whose lifespans are a great deal less. I don't think that the Isle of Mann even has a doctor and they report long lifespans. Is that supposed to mean that doctors aren't required or that they run to the mainland for treatments? Or maybe living where they can get decent food and live a stressless life adds to lifespans? And of course your claim that lifespan in general counts and not the ability to cure dangerous medical conditions because you have easier and faster access to medical treatments doesn't count in your book. I'll tell you something ass - Canada has a socialized medical system. And the WAITING period for most severe conditions is longer than the lifespan of people with those conditions. That's why all of the US hospitals near the Canadian borders have long lists of Canadians there for treatments. http://www.aarp.org/politics-society...alth-care.html When demand is inelastic, you need market regulation -- otherwise we'd be paying $10 a therm for natural gas during the heating season. Unlike you, I pay my own medical insurance premium and have done so for over 20 years -- and I'm not talking about a nickel-and-dime Medigap or Advantage plan. I'm talking big premiums -- more than I paid for my son's annual tuition at University of Utah. Repealing ACA won't reduce the premiums for my type of coverage and, according to the CBO, it will drive them up by 40%. The market is clearly broken. I am using my own private medical insurance since it was cheaper than the insurance to cover the medicare gap. And it is only about $1,500 a year or perhaps slightly more. And I have received no complaints or rising rates despite this last year costing them over $15,000. It is unlikely that I will have any medical bills for many years except for my 9 month inspection from my neurologist and the twice a year from my GP. You have a Medicare Advantage plan which, by the way, is much like the insurance scheme for everyone in Germany and (sort of) Japan. The bulk of premium is paid by the government with a "spread" paid by the policy holder. The typical Advantage plan in Oregon has better benefits than most employer-provided group plans. It also sweeps in Coverage D and provides a good pharmacy benefit. But its socialized insurance. The employed and self-employed (me) are paying the lion's share of your "premium." See http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brief...ow-it-financed The way Medicare Advantage works is that CMS pays a capitated fee to the HMO/PPO based on a "benchmark" for your county, and your HMO/PPO charges you the spread to cover the cost of estimated plan benefits (so called "bid"). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Advantage The benchmark number varies, but yours is probably in the $800-900 range -- meaning your "true" premium is subsidized to the tune of $800-900 per month. That's socialized insurance. YOU ARE A COMMUNIST, COMRADE! Time to turn in your teabag. Why should I pay for YOUR insurance? I'm going to quit paying my self-employment tax so I don't have to pay for YOUR insurance! -- Jay Beattie. |
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#33
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Jobst
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 07:15:15 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections? Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a connotation I do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes. free. You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities. The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements. That may have been true many years ago but is no longer true today. (and all you had to do is look) See: http://www.whatclinic.com/dentists/t...dental-x-rayst or http://www.bangkokdentalcenter.com/t...logy-xray.html or https://www.samitivejhospitals.com/e...dental-clinic/ or https://www.gracedentalclinic.com/technology-eng.html Note: the first site quotes a price for panoramic x-rays, in English aimed at foreigners, as US$1,000. The Thai price is traditionally about 50% I might add that Thailand seems to be quite well known for cosmetic surgery. It is said that one can fly from America, stay in a posh hotel, have the operation(s) and fly home cheaper then the surgery costs alone in the U.S. I have also read that Thailand is far and away the most experienced in penis re-attachments. See: http://www.glorysurgery.com/surgery-...nis-video-240/ http://tinyurl.com/yc6tgqk2 Or even http://tinyurl.com/yc6tgqk2 -- Cheers, John B. |
#34
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Jobst
On 9/1/2017 8:14 PM, jbeattie wrote:
You have a Medicare Advantage plan which, by the way, is much like the insurance scheme for everyone in Germany and (sort of) Japan. The bulk of premium is paid by the government with a "spread" paid by the policy holder. The typical Advantage plan in Oregon has better benefits than most employer-provided group plans. It also sweeps in Coverage D and provides a good pharmacy benefit. But its socialized insurance. The employed and self-employed (me) are paying the lion's share of your "premium." See http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brief...ow-it-financed The way Medicare Advantage works is that CMS pays a capitated fee to the HMO/PPO based on a "benchmark" for your county, and your HMO/PPO charges you the spread to cover the cost of estimated plan benefits (so called "bid"). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Advantage The benchmark number varies, but yours is probably in the $800-900 range -- meaning your "true" premium is subsidized to the tune of $800-900 per month. That's socialized insurance. YOU ARE A COMMUNIST, COMRADE! Time to turn in your teabag. Why should I pay for YOUR insurance? I'm going to quit paying my self-employment tax so I don't have to pay for YOUR insurance! Some people can't seem to grasp the fundamental idea of insurance. Everyone accepts a small penalty (the premiums they pay) in order to prevent having to endure a large penalty - i.e. catastrophic personal expenses, in this case, medical expenses. The insurance company is betting you're going to remain pretty healthy. You're betting you're going to get terribly sick. You bet against the insurance company, and you hope the insurance company wins. People like Tom who don't like the system have an alternative: Just don't buy any insurance. If necessary, move to some country with nothing like Medicare. Just pile up your own money in savings, and bet on your own health. Bet that you'll never need a $100,000 medical treatment to save your life. I'm sure it can work, because the insurance companies have bet on your health, and they've been winning big! They've collected enough money to build really impressive skyscrapers for their headquarters. And hey, for most of my life I never bought comprehensive insurance even on brand new cars. I won that bet, too! -- - Frank Krygowski |
#35
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Jobst
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:10:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote: On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections? Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes. free. You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities. The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements. Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU MRI units are more common in Japan than the US. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries. Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They were developed to display interior muscle composition and they really aren't very effective without contrast material injected into the proper area. There are two and a half times as many doctors per 100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000 in Thailand. So what? I go to the hospital and there are English speaking doctors there and I don't have to wait an unendurable length of time to see them. Is it better in the U.S.? when you walk in and are seen immediately? Does the nurse come out in the hall and drag you kicking and screaming into the office? What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine? You quite obviously don't know what you are talking about as (1) a doctor in government service in Thailand make a very comfortable living and (2) those that work in private hospitals make a fortune and (3) a great many doctors that work in government hospitals have private clinics which they open in the evenings. No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing. In the past many doctors in Thailand were trained in England or the U.S. and if a specialist were usually "board certified" in the country that they trained in. Now: There are 22 medical schools located in the country, and the majority of them are public and state-funded. The first medical school in Thailand was founded in the late 1880s at the Siriraj Hospital, a teaching hospital that remains one of the most highly reputable medical schools in the region. -- Cheers, John B. |
#36
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Jobst
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:10:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote: On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections? Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes. free. You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities. The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements. Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU MRI units are more common in Japan than the US. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries. Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They were developed to display interior muscle composition and they really aren't very effective without contrast material injected into the proper area. There are two and a half times as many doctors per 100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000 in Thailand. What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine? No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing. Life expectancy in the world's nations seems to be the highest in Japan with a (combined male/female) life expectancy of 83.7 years. Switzerland is next with 83.4 years, then Singapore with 83.1. The U.K. is #20 with 81.2 years and the U.S. is #31 with 79.3, which is between Costa Rica with 70.6 and Cuba with 79.1. Life expectancy at birth (2015) looks even bleaker: Hong Kong #1 with 83.74 years, than Japan with 83.31, and Italy with 82.84 while the U.S. is #43 with 78.88. Tell us more about the competent doctors. -- Cheers, John B. |
#37
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Jobst
Frank Krygowski wrote:
snip But we have at least a couple Canadians posting here. We should let them speak, I guess. My daughter broke her arm a couple of years ago and it required surgery to pin and set it. The most expensive part of the procedure was the parking bill at the hospital, which, having had universal healthcare all my life, I promptly complained about how expensive healthcare was. |
#38
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Jobst
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 21:28:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 9/1/2017 6:52 PM, wrote: On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 3:40:49 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 6:08:00 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 2:01:22 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: I've noticed many times that people who disagree with Tom tend to give links to information. But Tom tends to give pronouncements of things he believes he remembers, with no corresponding links or documentation. I could tell about my Canadian relatives and their successful cancer treatments, but that anecdote wouldn't matter to Tom. Instead, I'm waiting for data on food prices for 2006 and 2016. Come on, Tom! It's your move! :-) You know, the last time I said that on a news group several people like you told me I was full of **** and several nurses from the northwest and several more from around Toronto said the same thing as I did and then a patient popped in with his experience which was a 12 month wait for a cancer that gave him a maximum lifespan of three months. And it was just a tumor sitting on his heart. So he came to the US and it was gone in one operation and a month of chemo. But you want something from a site that you'll believe. And that includes a site that proved to be almost 300% incorrect. But IT'S IN WRITING. Your age is really beginning to show. Good example! Another anecdote that you believe you remember. No link to online information. Since you like anecdotes: My Canadian relative had to wait months for his wife's cancer treatment. He complained. But as it turned out, the doctors were right, the cure was complete, and it seems to have cost less than American treatment would have cost. Regarding Canada, Jay gave this: http://www.aarp.org/politics-society...alth-care.html There's also this: https://www.healthcare-now.org/blog/...c-health-care/ And this: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/11..._13057392.html But we have at least a couple Canadians posting here. We should let them speak, I guess. All of which has nothing to do with your previous claims of astronomical increases in food prices between 2006 and 2016. I posted data showing that was likely false. You've posted nothing but "memories," Tom. Can you _never_ find data to back your alleged memories? Frank - you really are one of those women's private parts. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...or-health-care http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/20...s-health-care/ Here is one of the far left wing sources that you prefer: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0db570d3778ff http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...adian-patients All of this was readily available and if you didn't want to believe me you COULD have looked it up yourself. But instead you prefer being a F-ing asshole and pretending the world isn't like it is. First, nobody has denied that some Canadians come to the U.S. for some procedures - just as some Americans go to Mexico or Costa Rica for some procedures. But when you read articles like those, watch for words like "increasingly" - meaning more than before... but exactly how much more? What are the numbers? "Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians’ Use Of Health Care Services In The United States" Katz et. al, http://content.healthaffairs.org/con...3/19.full.html says in part "Results from these sources do not support the widespread perception that Canadian residents seek care extensively in the United States. Indeed, the numbers found are so small as to be barely detectible relative to the use of care by Canadians at home." Note that one of your sources does rate Canada's health care pretty low - but still better than the U.S. "The Commonwealth Fund, a U.S. think tank, released a report two years ago ranking Canada 10th out of 11 wealthy nations in terms of health care. Only the United States fared worse. The report, based largely on satisfaction surveys by patients and health-care providers, placed Canada last in timeliness of care. The United Kingdom was ranked No. 1" Another of your sources, talking about a Canadian who went to Detroit for an angioplasty procedure, said this: "... [the Canadian system] is working. He received his care, the Canadian health system paid for it, and he is alive and well today. Had he been a citizen of Detroit, he would owe the hospital all of that money plus interest, would have had to sell his house and declared bankruptcy." And of course, it's not just Canadians that go elsewhere for care. I worked with an engineer who had retained his Hungarian citizenship. Whenever he needed anything more serious than treatment for the flu, he flew back to Hungary because he knew the care was excellent and essentially free. I have a good friend who was born and educated in Hungary and then became a dissident and escaped and worked in the West until he retired, a few years ago. He then returned to live in Hungary. He tells me that you can hardly get a dental appoint now for the Germans flocking for the cheap dental care. In fact he wrote ( what I think was a joke ) saying the under the Communists you had to bribe someone to get dental care and now under the democrats you have to bribe someone to get on the waiting list :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
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Jobst
On 9/1/2017 8:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/1/2017 8:14 PM, jbeattie wrote: You have a Medicare Advantage plan which, by the way, is much like the insurance scheme for everyone in Germany and (sort of) Japan. The bulk of premium is paid by the government with a "spread" paid by the policy holder. The typical Advantage plan in Oregon has better benefits than most employer-provided group plans. It also sweeps in Coverage D and provides a good pharmacy benefit. But its socialized insurance. The employed and self-employed (me) are paying the lion's share of your "premium." See http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brief...ow-it-financed The way Medicare Advantage works is that CMS pays a capitated fee to the HMO/PPO based on a "benchmark" for your county, and your HMO/PPO charges you the spread to cover the cost of estimated plan benefits (so called "bid"). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Advantage The benchmark number varies, but yours is probably in the $800-900 range -- meaning your "true" premium is subsidized to the tune of $800-900 per month. That's socialized insurance. YOU ARE A COMMUNIST, COMRADE! Time to turn in your teabag. Why should I pay for YOUR insurance? I'm going to quit paying my self-employment tax so I don't have to pay for YOUR insurance! Some people can't seem to grasp the fundamental idea of insurance. Everyone accepts a small penalty (the premiums they pay) in order to prevent having to endure a large penalty - i.e. catastrophic personal expenses, in this case, medical expenses. The insurance company is betting you're going to remain pretty healthy. You're betting you're going to get terribly sick. You bet against the insurance company, and you hope the insurance company wins. People like Tom who don't like the system have an alternative: Just don't buy any insurance. If necessary, move to some country with nothing like Medicare. Just pile up your own money in savings, and bet on your own health. Bet that you'll never need a $100,000 medical treatment to save your life. I'm sure it can work, because the insurance companies have bet on your health, and they've been winning big! They've collected enough money to build really impressive skyscrapers for their headquarters. And hey, for most of my life I never bought comprehensive insurance even on brand new cars. I won that bet, too! You're describing a classic insurance model which no longer exists. In principle, the ancient fire companies collected from building owners who then displayed the fire badge on the edifice. No badge, no water. Good system! In reality it's now more like Federal flood insurance which has premiums people bitch about, limits which keep most businesses and many homes well below actual losses, no private insurance available, ridiculous administrative costs and of course it loses a few billion dollars every year. Seeing the utterly indefensible screwups in that program, Florida under a previous idiot governor duplicated it for the state. Having made fish soup from an aquarium, no one knows how to get out of this but the premiums are too low, the costs are too high, the reserves are inadequate for a normal hurricane season (which we haven't had in 8~9 years)and of course normal weather events with normal losses will return. The State of Florida and its citizens are directly and fully liable. Ouch. Which brings us back to a regulated health insurance cabal. I don't have a simple answer because the various interests are convoluted, entrenched and too often crooked. This is of course utterly unrelated to health or medical services in the same way that education budgets are unrelated to education[1]. The system feeds itself; you are the product! [1] The Last Honest Man, Art Shanker of AFT often ended press conferences with his famous quip, "When students pay union dues I will care about students." -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#40
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Jobst
On 9/1/2017 9:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:10:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote: On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections? Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes. free. You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities. The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements. Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU MRI units are more common in Japan than the US. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries. Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They were developed to display interior muscle composition and they really aren't very effective without contrast material injected into the proper area. There are two and a half times as many doctors per 100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000 in Thailand. What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine? No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing. Life expectancy in the world's nations seems to be the highest in Japan with a (combined male/female) life expectancy of 83.7 years. Switzerland is next with 83.4 years, then Singapore with 83.1. The U.K. is #20 with 81.2 years and the U.S. is #31 with 79.3, which is between Costa Rica with 70.6 and Cuba with 79.1. Life expectancy at birth (2015) looks even bleaker: Hong Kong #1 with 83.74 years, than Japan with 83.31, and Italy with 82.84 while the U.S. is #43 with 78.88. Tell us more about the competent doctors. We USAians drive more (miles/hours per year), drive faster, do more drugs with or without alcohol and engage in other oft-fatal behaviors more than many populations. We lose roughly 20,000 more people to ODs than to car wrecks the last few years. Oh, you want to bring in health care? We also kill more people in hospital-acquired infection than car wrecks, too. Not 'infection' but _hospital acquired_ infection. They're pros! And we wouldn't have it any other way! -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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