torque wrench issues

On 5/2/2017 2:09 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
news
On 5/1/2017 2:49 PM, Ian Field wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:30:36 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote:

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated steel -
only
know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.

You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated
space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid.

I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc
plated that are being spouted here.

"galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher
galvanic affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various
other toxic heavy metals.

Cadmium poisoning is cumulative and has various routes into the body
- its a long slow painful journey to a Darwin award.

For a few years I worked assembling electronic equipment on cadmium
plated chassis - I've seen with my own eyes the extent to which the
plating rubs off on your hands.

But if you're too stupid to take it from someone who's been there -
Darwin awaits you with outstretched arms.

Can you not see your post's internal inconsistency?

You have multiple people who have given citations as well as related
experiences about welding zinc galvanized steel, but you discount them
saying "I have never become aware [of that problem]."

I have done and seen others do; things that they claim are instantly
injurous - at no time have I observed any such effect.

My cites are what I've seen with my own eyes.
It seems people are reluctant to accept your infallibility! People are
instead believing what they're reading in things like dictionaries and
encyclopedias, industry websites, textbooks on manufacturing, etc.
They're also believing what they've personally experienced.

Aren't people odd, Ian? Gosh, why don't they worship you properly?


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 2 May 2017 18:44:20 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
...
On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 4:14:24 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:

"galvanised" is galvanic protection - which can include any of several
toxic
heavy metals.

Some people here seem to think it can only mean zinc.

In the U.S. "galvanize" means to coat steel or iron with zinc. (Alternate
meaning: to spur into action.)

It may be that British usage is different, I suppose. But I don't find
evidence
of that.

The British usage means to plate with galvanic protection.

I call Bull****.
I worked and taught in one of the last British Colonies - Never heard
of Galvanize referring to anything other than Zinc.

The oxford dictionary defines it thus:

(often as adjective galvanized) Coat (iron or steel) with a protective
layer of zinc.


‘an old galvanized bucket’

Collins dictionary thus:

to cover (iron, steel, etc) with a protective zinc coating by dipping
into molten zinc or by electrodeposition

And the Cambridge dictionary thus:
Galvanized metal is covered with a thin layer of zinc to protect it:

galvanized iron/steel

galvanized nails/rivets

and Dictionary.com:
4.

to coat (metal, especially iron or steel) with zinc.

Virtually EVERY reference to "Galvanize" or "Galvanise" (The British
spelling) in reference to metalurgy or industrial process specifies
ZINC. - nothing else - and no reference to "galvanic" protection.


When searching on "galvanic electrode" I come up with this:

There are three main metals used as galvanic anodes, magnesium,
aluminum and zinc. They are all available as blocks, rods, plates or
extruded ribbon. Each material has advantages and disadvantages.

"Galvalume" is a process/product which does use other than pure zinc
in a "galvanize-like" process - and get a load of this:

Galvalume®. BIEC International Inc. is the worldwide licensor of the
technology and know-how associated with 55% Aluminum-Zinc alloy coated
sheet steel

Yup - It uses Zinc too!!!

On Tue, 2 May 2017 18:48:54 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 1 May 2017 21:14:22 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Whenever you are working with galvanized steel it is important that
you take the necessary steps when prepping the metal before welding.
If you have properly prepped your metal before welding, you will help
reduce your exposure to zinc oxide fumes.

The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized
materials is to grind all the galvanizing off!

Welding a joint with zinc still on the area would weaken the weld but
who
am I to suggest that you're right?

Smokers have very high amounts of cadmium in their bodies. If you've
smoked for 50 years you probably have the maximum allowable amount of
cadmium in your body. You can get cadmium in your body by touching it.
The
amount into your plasma is as high as 0.07%. The half-life of cadmium in
the body is about 10 years if memory serves.

But both zinc and cadmium would normally only accumulate to dangerous
levels at a rate that wouldn't harm you until long after you're dead
unless you're a smoker.
Or a careless welder.
Brazing spelter containing cadmium can make you sicker than a dog in
short order if you are breathing the fumes - as can the fumes from
welding galvanized steel. It only takes a few minutes to get you
wretching and puking and aching to the point you almost wish you
could die.

"galvanised" is galvanic protection - which can include any of several
toxic
heavy metals.


While yes, galvanizing is a galvanic protection if you go into a store
and ask for "galvanized iron" you get zinc coated steel.

Some people here seem to think it can only mean zinc.

No, "galvanized", in common U.S. usage, does mean zinc coated.

Etymology is far too complex for Americans to cope with.
And our Limey brethren tend to Bull**** a lot.

On Tue, 2 May 2017 18:53:15 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 02 May 2017 08:31:47 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 1 May 2017 21:14:22 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Whenever you are working with galvanized steel it is important that
you take the necessary steps when prepping the metal before welding.
If you have properly prepped your metal before welding, you will
help
reduce your exposure to zinc oxide fumes.

The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized
materials is to grind all the galvanizing off!

Welding a joint with zinc still on the area would weaken the weld but
who
am I to suggest that you're right?

Smokers have very high amounts of cadmium in their bodies. If you've
smoked for 50 years you probably have the maximum allowable amount of
cadmium in your body. You can get cadmium in your body by touching it.
The
amount into your plasma is as high as 0.07%. The half-life of cadmium
in
the body is about 10 years if memory serves.

But both zinc and cadmium would normally only accumulate to dangerous
levels at a rate that wouldn't harm you until long after you're dead
unless you're a smoker.
Or a careless welder.
Brazing spelter containing cadmium can make you sicker than a dog in
short order if you are breathing the fumes - as can the fumes from
welding galvanized steel. It only takes a few minutes to get you
wretching and puking and aching to the point you almost wish you
could die.

"galvanised" is galvanic protection - which can include any of several
toxic
heavy metals.


While yes, galvanizing is a galvanic protection if you go into a store
and ask for "galvanized iron" you get zinc coated steel.

As an addendum. I am not sure that galvanizing is necessarily a
galvanic protection. I an thinking of the corrugated "galvanized iron"
roofs I see on wooden buildings here.

Unless, of course, there is some sort of galvanic action between
wooden rafters and steel sheeting :-)

The steel has impurities which produce galvanic differences across a surface
area - add water (especially acid rain) and galvanic action produces
electrolysis.

You're probably so dumb that explaining it didn't help
much..................
You are WAY in over your depth ian. Better start digging - - -

On Tue, 2 May 2017 18:56:11 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 5/2/2017 4:31 AM, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2017 08:31:47 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 1 May 2017 21:14:22 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Whenever you are working with galvanized steel it is important that
you take the necessary steps when prepping the metal before
welding.
If you have properly prepped your metal before welding, you will
help
reduce your exposure to zinc oxide fumes.

The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized
materials is to grind all the galvanizing off!

Welding a joint with zinc still on the area would weaken the weld but
who
am I to suggest that you're right?

Smokers have very high amounts of cadmium in their bodies. If you've
smoked for 50 years you probably have the maximum allowable amount of
cadmium in your body. You can get cadmium in your body by touching
it. The
amount into your plasma is as high as 0.07%. The half-life of cadmium
in
the body is about 10 years if memory serves.

But both zinc and cadmium would normally only accumulate to dangerous
levels at a rate that wouldn't harm you until long after you're dead
unless you're a smoker.
Or a careless welder.
Brazing spelter containing cadmium can make you sicker than a dog in
short order if you are breathing the fumes - as can the fumes from
welding galvanized steel. It only takes a few minutes to get you
wretching and puking and aching to the point you almost wish you
could die.

"galvanised" is galvanic protection - which can include any of several
toxic
heavy metals.


While yes, galvanizing is a galvanic protection if you go into a store
and ask for "galvanized iron" you get zinc coated steel.

As an addendum. I am not sure that galvanizing is necessarily a
galvanic protection. I an thinking of the corrugated "galvanized iron"
roofs I see on wooden buildings here.

Unless, of course, there is some sort of galvanic action between
wooden rafters and steel sheeting :-)




Some people here seem to think it can only mean zinc.

No, "galvanized", in common U.S. usage, does mean zinc coated.

The toxic dose of zinc is really quite large.

Galvanized steel has a sacrificial zinc layer with more potential than the
steel.

Well at least you got that bit right - but zinc isn't the only plating metal
that does that.
It is the only material used for "Galvinizing" or "Galvinising" as
the Brits spell it.

On Tue, 2 May 2017 18:58:47 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 1 May 2017 22:12:57 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 5/1/2017 2:35 PM, wrote:
"Ian Field" wrote:
"John B Slocomb" wrote
wrote:
"Ian Field" wrote:
"AMuzi" wrote
On 4/30/2017 3:30 PM, Ian Field wrote:
"AMuzi" wrote
On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:
wrote
"Ian Field" wrote:
wrote
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:
"John B Slocomb" wrote
wrote:
John B Slocomb wrote:
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:
wrote
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:
"Emanuel Berg" wrote

-snip much speculation about organic chemistry-


Metallic zinc is not anywhere near as dangerous as the zinc oxide
fumes from over-heated zinc - justlike contact with cadmium metal
itself is "relatively" benign - and touching chrome plated metal is
not dangerous, yet co-valent Chromium is highly toxic.
Same with mercury - although mercury vapour definitely is not GOOD for
you, it is the "organic compounds" of mercury that are particularly
dangerous and insidious.


+1

Which is saying something...........................AFAIK: zinc oxide
isn't
particularly dangerous either.

Some sellers of CPU heat transfer paste pass off zinc oxide as high tech
ceramic filler and charge a lot more money. Its a bit of a grey area - but
I
think it more or less is a form of ceramic.

The *REALLY* toxic oxide is beryllium. That also is used for thermal
transfer - RoHS exempted some toxic materials because the impact on
industry
would be too severe, beryllium was one of them.
Give it up Ian - you are out of your depth.

In the mire created by Americans totally ignoring etymology.
Give us ONE recognized source that supports your definition of
GALVINIZED. Just ONE.

On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 10:49:04 AM UTC-7, Ian Field wrote:

Etymology is far too complex for Americans to cope with.

Do you mean like "bubble and squeak" or BS 1363 Fuse Plugs or Whitworth screws. If there's one thing that American's don't understand it's etymology.

On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 10:53:20 AM UTC-7, Ian Field wrote:
"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 May 2017 08:31:47 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 1 May 2017 21:14:22 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Whenever you are working with galvanized steel it is important that
you take the necessary steps when prepping the metal before welding.
If you have properly prepped your metal before welding, you will
help
reduce your exposure to zinc oxide fumes.

The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized
materials is to grind all the galvanizing off!

Welding a joint with zinc still on the area would weaken the weld but
who
am I to suggest that you're right?

Smokers have very high amounts of cadmium in their bodies. If you've
smoked for 50 years you probably have the maximum allowable amount of
cadmium in your body. You can get cadmium in your body by touching it.
The
amount into your plasma is as high as 0.07%. The half-life of cadmium
in
the body is about 10 years if memory serves.

But both zinc and cadmium would normally only accumulate to dangerous
levels at a rate that wouldn't harm you until long after you're dead
unless you're a smoker.
Or a careless welder.
Brazing spelter containing cadmium can make you sicker than a dog in
short order if you are breathing the fumes - as can the fumes from
welding galvanized steel. It only takes a few minutes to get you
wretching and puking and aching to the point you almost wish you
could die.

"galvanised" is galvanic protection - which can include any of several
toxic
heavy metals.


While yes, galvanizing is a galvanic protection if you go into a store
and ask for "galvanized iron" you get zinc coated steel.

As an addendum. I am not sure that galvanizing is necessarily a
galvanic protection. I an thinking of the corrugated "galvanized iron"
roofs I see on wooden buildings here.

Unless, of course, there is some sort of galvanic action between
wooden rafters and steel sheeting :-)

The steel has impurities which produce galvanic differences across a surface
area - add water (especially acid rain) and galvanic action produces
electrolysis.

You're probably so dumb that explaining it didn't help
much..................

A pH of 7 is neutral Normal rain is 5.5. It probably won't help you but normal rain is acidic.

On 5/2/2017 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 2 May 2017 18:48:54 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 21:14:22 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Whenever you are working with galvanized steel it is important that
you take the necessary steps when prepping the metal before welding.
If you have properly prepped your metal before welding, you will help
reduce your exposure to zinc oxide fumes.

The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized
materials is to grind all the galvanizing off!

Welding a joint with zinc still on the area would weaken the weld but
who
am I to suggest that you're right?

Smokers have very high amounts of cadmium in their bodies. If you've
smoked for 50 years you probably have the maximum allowable amount of
cadmium in your body. You can get cadmium in your body by touching it.
The
amount into your plasma is as high as 0.07%. The half-life of cadmium in
the body is about 10 years if memory serves.

But both zinc and cadmium would normally only accumulate to dangerous
levels at a rate that wouldn't harm you until long after you're dead
unless you're a smoker.
Or a careless welder.
Brazing spelter containing cadmium can make you sicker than a dog in
short order if you are breathing the fumes - as can the fumes from
welding galvanized steel. It only takes a few minutes to get you
wretching and puking and aching to the point you almost wish you
could die.

"galvanised" is galvanic protection - which can include any of several
toxic
heavy metals.


While yes, galvanizing is a galvanic protection if you go into a store
and ask for "galvanized iron" you get zinc coated steel.

Some people here seem to think it can only mean zinc.

No, "galvanized", in common U.S. usage, does mean zinc coated.

Etymology is far too complex for Americans to cope with.
And our Limey brethren tend to Bull**** a lot.


Well, more accurately, it's one Limey. I've got British friends who are
intelligent, diplomatic and knowledgeable. IOW, they're quite different
from Ian.


--
- Frank Krygowski

"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
news
On 5/2/2017 2:09 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
news
On 5/1/2017 2:49 PM, Ian Field wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:30:36 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote:

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated steel -
only
know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.

You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated
space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid.

I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc
plated that are being spouted here.

"galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic
affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other toxic
heavy metals.

Cadmium poisoning is cumulative and has various routes into the body -
its a long slow painful journey to a Darwin award.

For a few years I worked assembling electronic equipment on cadmium
plated chassis - I've seen with my own eyes the extent to which the
plating rubs off on your hands.

But if you're too stupid to take it from someone who's been there -
Darwin awaits you with outstretched arms.

Can you not see your post's internal inconsistency?

You have multiple people who have given citations as well as related
experiences about welding zinc galvanized steel, but you discount them
saying "I have never become aware [of that problem]."

I have done and seen others do; things that they claim are instantly
injurous - at no time have I observed any such effect.

My cites are what I've seen with my own eyes.
It seems people are reluctant to accept your infallibility! People are
instead believing what they're reading in things like dictionaries and
encyclopedias, industry websites, textbooks on manufacturing, etc. They're
also believing what they've personally experienced.

Aren't people odd, Ian? Gosh, why don't they worship you properly?

There's some people I'd never live down the shame of being worshipped
by...............................