torque wrench issues

On Tue, 2 May 2017 18:53:15 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 02 May 2017 08:31:47 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 1 May 2017 21:14:22 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Whenever you are working with galvanized steel it is important that
you take the necessary steps when prepping the metal before welding.
If you have properly prepped your metal before welding, you will
help
reduce your exposure to zinc oxide fumes.

The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized
materials is to grind all the galvanizing off!

Welding a joint with zinc still on the area would weaken the weld but
who
am I to suggest that you're right?

Smokers have very high amounts of cadmium in their bodies. If you've
smoked for 50 years you probably have the maximum allowable amount of
cadmium in your body. You can get cadmium in your body by touching it.
The
amount into your plasma is as high as 0.07%. The half-life of cadmium
in
the body is about 10 years if memory serves.

But both zinc and cadmium would normally only accumulate to dangerous
levels at a rate that wouldn't harm you until long after you're dead
unless you're a smoker.
Or a careless welder.
Brazing spelter containing cadmium can make you sicker than a dog in
short order if you are breathing the fumes - as can the fumes from
welding galvanized steel. It only takes a few minutes to get you
wretching and puking and aching to the point you almost wish you
could die.

"galvanised" is galvanic protection - which can include any of several
toxic
heavy metals.


While yes, galvanizing is a galvanic protection if you go into a store
and ask for "galvanized iron" you get zinc coated steel.

As an addendum. I am not sure that galvanizing is necessarily a
galvanic protection. I an thinking of the corrugated "galvanized iron"
roofs I see on wooden buildings here.

Unless, of course, there is some sort of galvanic action between
wooden rafters and steel sheeting :-)

The steel has impurities which produce galvanic differences across a surface
area - add water (especially acid rain) and galvanic action produces
electrolysis.


You mean there were no rusty roofs until acid rain was invented?

On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:18:17 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 1 May 2017 19:51:52 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 18:01:20 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
om...
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
news:4eevfc1jbatv5d4g088iqh3n3ls8f4mf35@4ax .com...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
news:schtfc5i6qshna502vhg4pv5f918haa426@4 ax.com...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:vmfqfc17u3012cn5jrkkk4r335ol6r5s ...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
.. .
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow the rules to the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry threads - any
stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application. Some are given
as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with oil - some
are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally have never run
across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that torqing with
"stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the bolt by
twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not been on
bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction equipment
which
may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist the end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the threads out of
alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down so far that
you
can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the engine case
bolts
with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of stripping the
threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory used to install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't get them out
without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw before the
Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and the Phipips
style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to breat them
loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver solved that problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws in a
Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some Japanese standard
that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the U.S. Which
probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off the point of
the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it) bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated bolts either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement news account.
So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is cumulative in the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up fracturing
ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable about the 80s.
They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in electronic equipment
until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but they've more or
less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling anything plated
with
it!

from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious to health on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are processed
and high temperatures are generated.

Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle cadmium
plated
parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component leads to
prevent
oxidation - they used more aggressive fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous - the cadmium
is
vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling the sufferer -
but
I've heard of a repair technician dropping dead after a couple of years
from
fumes using low melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial effluent
containing cadmium into heavily fished costal waters. They even have a
name
for the disease - itai itai byo. apparently its the noise sufferers make
in
their death throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so weak and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.

I hate to disillusion you but the Japanese word "itai" can be
translated into English as "ouch" and is commonly used in everyday
conversation.

Secondly, the cadmium poisoning you are referring to was specific to
mining in Toyama Prefecture. Not to industry per si.

Sophistry doesn't magically make you right.

You mean that part about "apparently its the noise sufferers make in
their death throes"?

As I explained the Japanese word "itai" is commonly used as English
speakers might use "ouch". Do you think those poor Japanese dying in
agony are saying "ouch - ouch".


Saying I said what I said is a very weird way to try to contradict me.

I simply quoted what I'd read because I know how easy it is to confuse you.

Exactly. You read something and immediately this becomes the truth!
The whole truth! And nothing but the truth!

If someone comes along and contradicts you then they are wrong!


Don't you think "ouch" would be fairly predictable when their skeleton is
disintegrating..........................

Apparently you are not familiar with those suffering excruciating
pain. In my experience they do not ay "Ouch".

Although I speak from experience rather then "something I read" I can
assure you that when I broke my pelvis I did not say "ouch". Not even
once. When I did was scream in agony.

On Tue, 2 May 2017 19:12:39 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 1 May 2017 19:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:

a great deal deleted


know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.
You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated
space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid.

I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc plated
that are being spouted here.

"galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic
affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other toxic
heavy metals.


I can only assume that you are not from a country where English is the
common language as the definition of "galvanized" in the U.S. (and
likely in other English speaking countries) is, and I quote, "Covered
with Zinc".

I'm in an English speaking country that's heard of etymology.

Etymology is it? You mean like "Man, this is soooo cool"?

On Tue, 02 May 2017 16:49:29 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 2 May 2017 18:58:47 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 1 May 2017 22:12:57 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 5/1/2017 2:35 PM, wrote:
"Ian Field" wrote:
"John B Slocomb" wrote
wrote:
"Ian Field" wrote:
"AMuzi" wrote
On 4/30/2017 3:30 PM, Ian Field wrote:
"AMuzi" wrote
On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:
wrote
"Ian Field" wrote:
wrote
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:
"John B Slocomb" wrote
wrote:
John B Slocomb wrote:
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:
wrote
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:
"Emanuel Berg" wrote

-snip much speculation about organic chemistry-


Metallic zinc is not anywhere near as dangerous as the zinc oxide
fumes from over-heated zinc - justlike contact with cadmium metal
itself is "relatively" benign - and touching chrome plated metal is
not dangerous, yet co-valent Chromium is highly toxic.
Same with mercury - although mercury vapour definitely is not GOOD for
you, it is the "organic compounds" of mercury that are particularly
dangerous and insidious.


+1

Which is saying something...........................AFAIK: zinc oxide
isn't
particularly dangerous either.

Some sellers of CPU heat transfer paste pass off zinc oxide as high tech
ceramic filler and charge a lot more money. Its a bit of a grey area - but
I
think it more or less is a form of ceramic.

The *REALLY* toxic oxide is beryllium. That also is used for thermal
transfer - RoHS exempted some toxic materials because the impact on
industry
would be too severe, beryllium was one of them.
Give it up Ian - you are out of your depth.

In the mire created by Americans totally ignoring etymology.
Give us ONE recognized source that supports your definition of
GALVINIZED. Just ONE.


Actually, like so much else of their culture, they have pirated the
term from the French.

"Galvanic - From French galvanique, after Italian physiologist Luigi
Aloisio Galvani"

On Mon, 01 May 2017 15:45:26 -0500,
AMuzi wrote:
On 5/1/2017 2:35 PM, wrote:
"Ian Field" wrote:
"John B Slocomb" wrote
wrote:
"Ian Field" wrote:
"AMuzi" wrote
On 4/30/2017 3:30 PM, Ian Field wrote:
"AMuzi" wrote
On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:
wrote
"Ian Field" wrote:
wrote
"Benderthe.evilrobot" wrote:
"John B Slocomb" wrote
wrote:
John B Slocomb wrote:
"Benderthe.evilrobot" wrote:
wrote
"Benderthe.evilrobot" wrote:
"Emanuel Berg" wrote

-snip much speculation about organic chemistry-


Metallic zinc is not anywhere near as dangerous as the zinc oxide
fumes from over-heated zinc - justlike contact with cadmium metal
itself is "relatively" benign - and touching chrome plated metal is
not dangerous, yet co-valent Chromium is highly toxic.
Same with mercury - although mercury vapour definitely is not GOOD for
you, it is the "organic compounds" of mercury that are particularly
dangerous and insidious.


+1

I think the quoted material may have meant to refer to HEXAvalent
chromium, rather than COvalent (i.e., chromium (vi)).

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA

On Wed, 03 May 2017 07:30:42 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

You mean there were no rusty roofs until acid rain was invented?

Rain has always been acid. That's why southern Indiana is hollow.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 10:53:20 AM UTC-7, Ian Field wrote:
"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 May 2017 08:31:47 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 1 May 2017 21:14:22 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Whenever you are working with galvanized steel it is important
that
you take the necessary steps when prepping the metal before
welding.
If you have properly prepped your metal before welding, you will
help
reduce your exposure to zinc oxide fumes.

The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing
galvanized
materials is to grind all the galvanizing off!

Welding a joint with zinc still on the area would weaken the weld
but
who
am I to suggest that you're right?

Smokers have very high amounts of cadmium in their bodies. If you've
smoked for 50 years you probably have the maximum allowable amount
of
cadmium in your body. You can get cadmium in your body by touching
it.
The
amount into your plasma is as high as 0.07%. The half-life of
cadmium
in
the body is about 10 years if memory serves.

But both zinc and cadmium would normally only accumulate to
dangerous
levels at a rate that wouldn't harm you until long after you're dead
unless you're a smoker.
Or a careless welder.
Brazing spelter containing cadmium can make you sicker than a dog in
short order if you are breathing the fumes - as can the fumes from
welding galvanized steel. It only takes a few minutes to get you
wretching and puking and aching to the point you almost wish you
could die.

"galvanised" is galvanic protection - which can include any of several
toxic
heavy metals.


While yes, galvanizing is a galvanic protection if you go into a store
and ask for "galvanized iron" you get zinc coated steel.

As an addendum. I am not sure that galvanizing is necessarily a
galvanic protection. I an thinking of the corrugated "galvanized iron"
roofs I see on wooden buildings here.

Unless, of course, there is some sort of galvanic action between
wooden rafters and steel sheeting :-)

The steel has impurities which produce galvanic differences across a
surface
area - add water (especially acid rain) and galvanic action produces
electrolysis.

You're probably so dumb that explaining it didn't help
much..................

A pH of 7 is neutral Normal rain is 5.5. It probably won't help you but
normal rain is acidic.

So what point were you supposedly trying to make?

Normal rain causes metal to corrode, and mostly due to galvanic action
around spots of impurities. Potential differences arise and electrolysis
dissociates metal ions.

Acid rain (as in sulphur pollution) simply does the same thing more
enthusiastically.

If rain was pure distilled water, there would be no galvanic potentials and
probably hardly any corrosion - a lot less people would bother painting or
plating metals.

"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 2 May 2017 18:53:15 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 02 May 2017 08:31:47 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 1 May 2017 21:14:22 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
om...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Whenever you are working with galvanized steel it is important
that
you take the necessary steps when prepping the metal before
welding.
If you have properly prepped your metal before welding, you will
help
reduce your exposure to zinc oxide fumes.

The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized
materials is to grind all the galvanizing off!

Welding a joint with zinc still on the area would weaken the weld but
who
am I to suggest that you're right?

Smokers have very high amounts of cadmium in their bodies. If you've
smoked for 50 years you probably have the maximum allowable amount of
cadmium in your body. You can get cadmium in your body by touching
it.
The
amount into your plasma is as high as 0.07%. The half-life of cadmium
in
the body is about 10 years if memory serves.

But both zinc and cadmium would normally only accumulate to dangerous
levels at a rate that wouldn't harm you until long after you're dead
unless you're a smoker.
Or a careless welder.
Brazing spelter containing cadmium can make you sicker than a dog in
short order if you are breathing the fumes - as can the fumes from
welding galvanized steel. It only takes a few minutes to get you
wretching and puking and aching to the point you almost wish you
could die.

"galvanised" is galvanic protection - which can include any of several
toxic
heavy metals.


While yes, galvanizing is a galvanic protection if you go into a store
and ask for "galvanized iron" you get zinc coated steel.

As an addendum. I am not sure that galvanizing is necessarily a
galvanic protection. I an thinking of the corrugated "galvanized iron"
roofs I see on wooden buildings here.

Unless, of course, there is some sort of galvanic action between
wooden rafters and steel sheeting :-)

The steel has impurities which produce galvanic differences across a
surface
area - add water (especially acid rain) and galvanic action produces
electrolysis.


You mean there were no rusty roofs until acid rain was invented?

I knew you were thick - but I didn't think even you would fall for the
double talk being spouted here.

"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 May 2017 18:48:54 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 1 May 2017 21:14:22 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Whenever you are working with galvanized steel it is important that
you take the necessary steps when prepping the metal before
welding.
If you have properly prepped your metal before welding, you will
help
reduce your exposure to zinc oxide fumes.

The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized
materials is to grind all the galvanizing off!

Welding a joint with zinc still on the area would weaken the weld but
who
am I to suggest that you're right?

Smokers have very high amounts of cadmium in their bodies. If you've
smoked for 50 years you probably have the maximum allowable amount of
cadmium in your body. You can get cadmium in your body by touching it.
The
amount into your plasma is as high as 0.07%. The half-life of cadmium
in
the body is about 10 years if memory serves.

But both zinc and cadmium would normally only accumulate to dangerous
levels at a rate that wouldn't harm you until long after you're dead
unless you're a smoker.
Or a careless welder.
Brazing spelter containing cadmium can make you sicker than a dog in
short order if you are breathing the fumes - as can the fumes from
welding galvanized steel. It only takes a few minutes to get you
wretching and puking and aching to the point you almost wish you
could die.

"galvanised" is galvanic protection - which can include any of several
toxic
heavy metals.


While yes, galvanizing is a galvanic protection if you go into a store
and ask for "galvanized iron" you get zinc coated steel.

Some people here seem to think it can only mean zinc.

No, "galvanized", in common U.S. usage, does mean zinc coated.

Etymology is far too complex for Americans to cope with.

Perhaps so. And quite obviously logic is not a subject that the
"British" are familiar with.

I use "British" with some trepidation as I have met with a large
number of folks from the "tiny island nation" and not a single one,
when asked, has ever identified themselves as "Oh, I'm British".

Its so they can be lazy and get away with using a dictionary written by a
bunch of illiterates.

"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 02 May 2017 16:49:29 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 2 May 2017 18:58:47 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 22:12:57 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 5/1/2017 2:35 PM, wrote:
"Ian Field" wrote:
"John B Slocomb" wrote
wrote:
"Ian Field" wrote:
"AMuzi" wrote
On 4/30/2017 3:30 PM, Ian Field wrote:
"AMuzi" wrote
On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:
wrote
"Ian Field" wrote:
wrote
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia .com
wrote:
"John B Slocomb" wrote
wrote:
John B Slocomb wrote:
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:
wrote
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:
"Emanuel Berg" wrote

-snip much speculation about organic chemistry-


Metallic zinc is not anywhere near as dangerous as the zinc oxide
fumes from over-heated zinc - justlike contact with cadmium metal
itself is "relatively" benign - and touching chrome plated metal is
not dangerous, yet co-valent Chromium is highly toxic.
Same with mercury - although mercury vapour definitely is not GOOD
for
you, it is the "organic compounds" of mercury that are particularly
dangerous and insidious.


+1

Which is saying something...........................AFAIK: zinc oxide
isn't
particularly dangerous either.

Some sellers of CPU heat transfer paste pass off zinc oxide as high
tech
ceramic filler and charge a lot more money. Its a bit of a grey area -
but
I
think it more or less is a form of ceramic.

The *REALLY* toxic oxide is beryllium. That also is used for thermal
transfer - RoHS exempted some toxic materials because the impact on
industry
would be too severe, beryllium was one of them.
Give it up Ian - you are out of your depth.

In the mire created by Americans totally ignoring etymology.
Give us ONE recognized source that supports your definition of
GALVINIZED. Just ONE.


Actually, like so much else of their culture, they have pirated the
term from the French.

"Galvanic - From French galvanique, after Italian physiologist Luigi
Aloisio Galvani"

And what did he invent/discover?