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Beyond the Autobahn: Germany's New Bike Highways



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 26th 16, 02:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Default Beyond the Autobahn: Germany's New Bike Highways

With the recent opening of a "bike highway," Germany is taking the lead in Europe by starting to build a network of wide, dedicated bicycle thoroughfares designed to lure increasing numbers of commuters out of their cars and onto two wheels.

Cycling highways are fundamentally different from usual cycling lanes. Highways are around 4 to 5 meters wide -- twice the width of many bike paths -- so faster cyclists can overtake slower ones in both directions. High-quality asphalt is often used to enable bicyclists to travel faster. These highways are designed with few or no intersections with major roads, and as few traffic lights as possible -- all intended to enable cyclists to travel effortlessly within or among cities and suburbs. Like autobahns, the biking highways are designed to allow travelers to cover large distances without leaving the network.

http://www.resilience.org/stories/20...bike-highways#

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  #2  
Old February 26th 16, 05:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Beyond the Autobahn: Germany's New Bike Highways

On 2/25/2016 9:59 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
With the recent opening of a "bike highway," Germany is taking the lead in Europe by starting to build a network of wide, dedicated bicycle thoroughfares designed to lure increasing numbers of commuters out of their cars and onto two wheels.

Cycling highways are fundamentally different from usual cycling lanes. Highways are around 4 to 5 meters wide -- twice the width of many bike paths -- so faster cyclists can overtake slower ones in both directions. High-quality asphalt is often used to enable bicyclists to travel faster. These highways are designed with few or no intersections with major roads, and as few traffic lights as possible -- all intended to enable cyclists to travel effortlessly within or among cities and suburbs. Like autobahns, the biking highways are designed to allow travelers to cover large distances without leaving the network.

http://www.resilience.org/stories/20...bike-highways#


I've read about this before, but I've not seen any details on how they
will arrange for "few or no intersections with major roads" while still
being useful for transportation. It seems there would be relatively few
locations that could be practically served while meeting that criterion.

We'll see, I suppose. But words like "spearheading a growing movement"
and "planners are considering" sound a bit hypothetical.

Again, we'll see.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #3  
Old February 26th 16, 07:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 6,153
Default Beyond the Autobahn: Germany's New Bike Highways

On 26/02/16 15:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/25/2016 9:59 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
With the recent opening of a "bike highway," Germany is taking the
lead in Europe by starting to build a network of wide, dedicated
bicycle thoroughfares designed to lure increasing numbers of commuters
out of their cars and onto two wheels.

Cycling highways are fundamentally different from usual cycling lanes.
Highways are around 4 to 5 meters wide -- twice the width of many bike
paths -- so faster cyclists can overtake slower ones in both
directions. High-quality asphalt is often used to enable bicyclists to
travel faster. These highways are designed with few or no
intersections with major roads, and as few traffic lights as possible
-- all intended to enable cyclists to travel effortlessly within or
among cities and suburbs. Like autobahns, the biking highways are
designed to allow travelers to cover large distances without leaving
the network.

http://www.resilience.org/stories/20...bike-highways#


I've read about this before, but I've not seen any details on how they
will arrange for "few or no intersections with major roads" while still
being useful for transportation. It seems there would be relatively few
locations that could be practically served while meeting that criterion.


Grade separation.

--
JS
  #4  
Old February 26th 16, 01:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_3_]
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Posts: 1,900
Default Beyond the Autobahn: Germany's New Bike Highways

On 26/02/2016 2:33 AM, James wrote:
On 26/02/16 15:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/25/2016 9:59 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
With the recent opening of a "bike highway," Germany is taking the
lead in Europe by starting to build a network of wide, dedicated
bicycle thoroughfares designed to lure increasing numbers of commuters
out of their cars and onto two wheels.

Cycling highways are fundamentally different from usual cycling lanes.
Highways are around 4 to 5 meters wide -- twice the width of many bike
paths -- so faster cyclists can overtake slower ones in both
directions. High-quality asphalt is often used to enable bicyclists to
travel faster. These highways are designed with few or no
intersections with major roads, and as few traffic lights as possible
-- all intended to enable cyclists to travel effortlessly within or
among cities and suburbs. Like autobahns, the biking highways are
designed to allow travelers to cover large distances without leaving
the network.

http://www.resilience.org/stories/20...bike-highways#



I've read about this before, but I've not seen any details on how they
will arrange for "few or no intersections with major roads" while still
being useful for transportation. It seems there would be relatively few
locations that could be practically served while meeting that criterion.


Grade separation.


In the picture it looks like there's an overpass with some sort of exit
to the sides. This is similar to a plan here in Montreal where they are
rebuilding an area called the Turcot Interchange.
  #5  
Old February 26th 16, 01:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Beyond the Autobahn: Germany's New Bike Highways

On 2/25/2016 11:33 PM, James wrote:

Grade separation.


Yes, this is how it's done in the U.S. We have many such grade separated
MUPs in my area, and if we could just ban pedestrians, scooters,
skateboarders, roller-bladers, etc., they'd be a lot faster. Actually
they're already pretty good during weekday commute times, but on
weekends they get those other uses in large quantities. They've spent a
lot of money doing grade separation, and they do it gradually, starting
off with traffic lights then building overpasses.


  #6  
Old February 26th 16, 01:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 6,374
Default Beyond the Autobahn: Germany's New Bike Highways



using standard GooSearch, no German map showed...


https://goo.gl/k32hs9

https://www.google.com/search?site=i...ade+separation


grade separation reads like a term used in Congress for PORK


  #7  
Old February 26th 16, 01:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Beyond the Autobahn: Germany's New Bike Highways

On 2/26/2016 1:33 AM, James wrote:
On 26/02/16 15:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/25/2016 9:59 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
With the recent opening of a "bike highway," Germany is
taking the
lead in Europe by starting to build a network of wide,
dedicated
bicycle thoroughfares designed to lure increasing numbers
of commuters
out of their cars and onto two wheels.

Cycling highways are fundamentally different from usual
cycling lanes.
Highways are around 4 to 5 meters wide -- twice the width
of many bike
paths -- so faster cyclists can overtake slower ones in both
directions. High-quality asphalt is often used to enable
bicyclists to
travel faster. These highways are designed with few or no
intersections with major roads, and as few traffic lights
as possible
-- all intended to enable cyclists to travel effortlessly
within or
among cities and suburbs. Like autobahns, the biking
highways are
designed to allow travelers to cover large distances
without leaving
the network.

http://www.resilience.org/stories/20...bike-highways#



I've read about this before, but I've not seen any details
on how they
will arrange for "few or no intersections with major
roads" while still
being useful for transportation. It seems there would be
relatively few
locations that could be practically served while meeting
that criterion.


Grade separation.


Gee what could that cost?

http://www.channel3000.com/news/Cons...pring/37691412

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #8  
Old February 26th 16, 01:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,900
Default Beyond the Autobahn: Germany's New Bike Highways

On 26/02/2016 8:43 AM, sms wrote:
On 2/25/2016 11:33 PM, James wrote:

Grade separation.


Yes, this is how it's done in the U.S. We have many such grade separated
MUPs in my area, and if we could just ban pedestrians, scooters,
skateboarders, roller-bladers, etc., they'd be a lot faster. Actually
they're already pretty good during weekday commute times, but on
weekends they get those other uses in large quantities. They've spent a
lot of money doing grade separation, and they do it gradually, starting
off with traffic lights then building overpasses.



Having them wide enough to allow "passing lanes" helps with that. But
generally you're right, they're not wide enough here so they get crowded
here with the roller bladers etc. and slower cyclists.

There's a nice path that I can use on my commute but it's too crowded
except for my early morning ride in. On the way home I take the less
scenic traffic jam infested roads.
  #9  
Old February 26th 16, 02:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,900
Default Beyond the Autobahn: Germany's New Bike Highways

On 26/02/2016 8:54 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/26/2016 1:33 AM, James wrote:
On 26/02/16 15:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/25/2016 9:59 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
With the recent opening of a "bike highway," Germany is
taking the
lead in Europe by starting to build a network of wide,
dedicated
bicycle thoroughfares designed to lure increasing numbers
of commuters
out of their cars and onto two wheels.

Cycling highways are fundamentally different from usual
cycling lanes.
Highways are around 4 to 5 meters wide -- twice the width
of many bike
paths -- so faster cyclists can overtake slower ones in both
directions. High-quality asphalt is often used to enable
bicyclists to
travel faster. These highways are designed with few or no
intersections with major roads, and as few traffic lights
as possible
-- all intended to enable cyclists to travel effortlessly
within or
among cities and suburbs. Like autobahns, the biking
highways are
designed to allow travelers to cover large distances
without leaving
the network.

http://www.resilience.org/stories/20...bike-highways#




I've read about this before, but I've not seen any details
on how they
will arrange for "few or no intersections with major
roads" while still
being useful for transportation. It seems there would be
relatively few
locations that could be practically served while meeting
that criterion.


Grade separation.


Gee what could that cost?

http://www.channel3000.com/news/Cons...pring/37691412




They solve that problem by making it so expensive to begin with that
adding the bike infrastructure is insignificant. The Turcot Exchange
has been bid out at 3 billion. Most estimates think it will come in at
5. What's a couple million for a bike path?

The problem here is there are too many people living in the burbs and
outer cities and working in Montreal. There are only 2 major highways
getting into the city so they need to do something. Trying to get
people on bikes is one part of it.
  #10  
Old February 26th 16, 03:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Beyond the Autobahn: Germany's New Bike Highways

On 2/26/2016 2:33 AM, James wrote:
On 26/02/16 15:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/25/2016 9:59 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
With the recent opening of a "bike highway," Germany is taking the
lead in Europe by starting to build a network of wide, dedicated
bicycle thoroughfares designed to lure increasing numbers of commuters
out of their cars and onto two wheels.

Cycling highways are fundamentally different from usual cycling lanes.
Highways are around 4 to 5 meters wide -- twice the width of many bike
paths -- so faster cyclists can overtake slower ones in both
directions. High-quality asphalt is often used to enable bicyclists to
travel faster. These highways are designed with few or no
intersections with major roads, and as few traffic lights as possible
-- all intended to enable cyclists to travel effortlessly within or
among cities and suburbs. Like autobahns, the biking highways are
designed to allow travelers to cover large distances without leaving
the network.

http://www.resilience.org/stories/20...bike-highways#



I've read about this before, but I've not seen any details on how they
will arrange for "few or no intersections with major roads" while still
being useful for transportation. It seems there would be relatively few
locations that could be practically served while meeting that criterion.


Grade separation.


That would be their plan, I'm sure, but it's hugely expensive. I've
been over four (IIRC) modern bike path bridges within 60 miles of my
home. (One was since removed, BTW.) They're showpieces, but one can't
afford showpieces very often. And if the project can't afford them very
often, it seems the routes must avoid most busy roads. That makes the
routes sound less useful.

Even for those willing to spend huge sums of public money, it seems each
bridge or underpass would divert money that could be used instead to
build an additional ten to fifteen miles of perhaps lateral paths.

BTW, Stevenage in Britain has grade separations for its extensive
bikeway system. But that system has been a failure. See
http://evworld.com/urban.cfm?newsid=17

One of the problems, supposedly, is that people feel insecure going
through the underpasses, especially at night.

But a bigger problem is that Stevenage did nothing to actively
discourage car use. By contrast, Dutch cities tend to make car parking
rare and super-expensive, and they close direct routes to cars so car
trips take longer than bike trips, etc. etc.

It seems that as long as it's easier to get into a car and turn the key,
almost everyone will prefer to drive.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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