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  #71  
Old October 19th 19, 01:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default ride faster!

John B. writes:

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 07:24:29 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 6:51:29 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 4:35:36 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 9:53:33 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 7:32:53 AM UTC-7, duane wrote:
On 17/10/2019 10:24 a.m., Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 7:49:01 AM UTC+1, Rolf Mantel wrote:

The alternate is not to cycle on the sidewalk in the first place, when
it is known that riding on a sidewalk is 3 times as dangerous as riding
on the road ;-)

I generally agree. But it strikes me that someone who rides on
the pavement all the time, or any time it is permitted, is
probably also a gutter bunny, and that truck driver would have
collected him either way.

I'd be interest to hear where you got your information "that
riding on a sidewalk is 3 times as dangerous as riding on the
road".


Seems to me that this would depend a lot on the road and the sidewalk.
We had a couple people killed in Montreal going through an underpass and
being rear ended by trucks. You'd have to see the setup. Steep
underpass. Dark. Narrow. Truck didn't see the cyclists etc. There
are sidewalks there and the city decided to allow cyclists to use them.

Before the danger danger brigade gets fired up, this is a one off. I
wouldn't recommend using sidewalks generally.

Andre Jute
Aggressive Passive Safety: Bicyclists should avoid tangling
with mechanical contrivances bigger than they are.


And oddly, modified sidewalks are deemed the safest type of
bicycle
facility. https://bikeportland.org/2017/02/14/...lwaukie-217696
The previous on-street bike lane was far safer. You didn't get
cars lunging over limit lines into "bike crossings," i.e. cross
walks, and you didn't have to stop every fifty yards or less for
cross-streets and driveways. You just rode along with the cars --
straight shot. But now we have an awesome facility where you get
to dodge cars and pedestrians. Oh joy. I'd go on about the
f****** nightmare ride into work this morning in a bike facility,
but I've got things to do. I'm turning into that crazy old
Tourette's guy yelling at cars, bikes and pedestrians. One day
I'll wake up and be TK -- or a cockroach, one or the other.

-- Jay Beattie.

I just got an email this time from some back-east recruiter and
another from LinkIn about that NASA position. They said it is newly
started "Small Satellite Maintenance" department. Since they sure as
hell aren't bringing them down and repairing them I can only assume
that it is firmware updates. So, since you're the local expert -
have you heard of the Small Satellite Maintenance Department of
NASA?

I had pad kee mao from the Thai cart today. It was super-good, and I
get free Thai tea because I work downtown. It's really too sweet, but
the lady in the cart is willing to ratchet back the sugar and make it
just right. Have you ever heard of pad kee mao?

I probably eat more Thai food than John B, but tomorrow, I'm going to
the Korean BBQ cart next door. Or maybe I'll get a sandwich.

Go for the banh mi, Charlie makes a mean sandwich.


We have banh mi carts downtown -- I just have to find them. A bunch
of the carts dispersed after a cart pod was displaced by a luxury
hotel project. That really ****ed off the locals. We also lost the
"Frying Scotsman" -- great street fish and chips. He moved his truck
to Beaverton -- gads, the burbs. I live pretty close to a high
school with a little cart pod: more pad kee mao!
https://tinyurl.com/yxv594rp The Thai people are trying to conquer
us with noodle dishes. Its some sort of reverse colonialism. We need
to fight back with Colonel Sanders franchises in Bangkok. John B,
its up to you!

-- Jay Beattie.


No question, you foreigners talk funny.

When you say "banh mi" are talking about "ba mee" which is Chinese and
is a type of noodle. Not cooked noodles, just noodles :-O) They are
dried noodles, not wet noodles, and you buy them in a box and than
cook them with something to get a little flavor. Like Ba mee phad phak
- stir fried noodles with mixed veggies, or even ba mee haeng which is
cooked noodles served without the soup stock. Haeng meaning "dry".


Not at all. When the sign (in the USA) advertises "banh mi" one expects
a Vietnamese style sub sandwich, with cold cuts, or barbecue, or fish
balls (my favorite). Garnished with cilantro, and pickled radishes, and
who knows what else.

As I understand it, the baguette is a relic of French adventurism, gone
bush.

The current price for a bowl of ba mee haeng, on the street, is about
40 baht - $1.30. In the Food Court at a big Shopping Center it is 130
baht - $4.30, my wife tells me.
--
cheers,

John B.


--
Ads
  #72  
Old October 19th 19, 02:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default ride faster!

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 20:36:39 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 07:24:29 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 6:51:29 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 4:35:36 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 9:53:33 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 7:32:53 AM UTC-7, duane wrote:
On 17/10/2019 10:24 a.m., Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 7:49:01 AM UTC+1, Rolf Mantel wrote:

The alternate is not to cycle on the sidewalk in the first place, when
it is known that riding on a sidewalk is 3 times as dangerous as riding
on the road ;-)

I generally agree. But it strikes me that someone who rides on
the pavement all the time, or any time it is permitted, is
probably also a gutter bunny, and that truck driver would have
collected him either way.

I'd be interest to hear where you got your information "that
riding on a sidewalk is 3 times as dangerous as riding on the
road".


Seems to me that this would depend a lot on the road and the sidewalk.
We had a couple people killed in Montreal going through an underpass and
being rear ended by trucks. You'd have to see the setup. Steep
underpass. Dark. Narrow. Truck didn't see the cyclists etc. There
are sidewalks there and the city decided to allow cyclists to use them.

Before the danger danger brigade gets fired up, this is a one off. I
wouldn't recommend using sidewalks generally.

Andre Jute
Aggressive Passive Safety: Bicyclists should avoid tangling
with mechanical contrivances bigger than they are.


And oddly, modified sidewalks are deemed the safest type of
bicycle
facility. https://bikeportland.org/2017/02/14/...lwaukie-217696
The previous on-street bike lane was far safer. You didn't get
cars lunging over limit lines into "bike crossings," i.e. cross
walks, and you didn't have to stop every fifty yards or less for
cross-streets and driveways. You just rode along with the cars --
straight shot. But now we have an awesome facility where you get
to dodge cars and pedestrians. Oh joy. I'd go on about the
f****** nightmare ride into work this morning in a bike facility,
but I've got things to do. I'm turning into that crazy old
Tourette's guy yelling at cars, bikes and pedestrians. One day
I'll wake up and be TK -- or a cockroach, one or the other.

-- Jay Beattie.

I just got an email this time from some back-east recruiter and
another from LinkIn about that NASA position. They said it is newly
started "Small Satellite Maintenance" department. Since they sure as
hell aren't bringing them down and repairing them I can only assume
that it is firmware updates. So, since you're the local expert -
have you heard of the Small Satellite Maintenance Department of
NASA?

I had pad kee mao from the Thai cart today. It was super-good, and I
get free Thai tea because I work downtown. It's really too sweet, but
the lady in the cart is willing to ratchet back the sugar and make it
just right. Have you ever heard of pad kee mao?

I probably eat more Thai food than John B, but tomorrow, I'm going to
the Korean BBQ cart next door. Or maybe I'll get a sandwich.

Go for the banh mi, Charlie makes a mean sandwich.

We have banh mi carts downtown -- I just have to find them. A bunch
of the carts dispersed after a cart pod was displaced by a luxury
hotel project. That really ****ed off the locals. We also lost the
"Frying Scotsman" -- great street fish and chips. He moved his truck
to Beaverton -- gads, the burbs. I live pretty close to a high
school with a little cart pod: more pad kee mao!
https://tinyurl.com/yxv594rp The Thai people are trying to conquer
us with noodle dishes. Its some sort of reverse colonialism. We need
to fight back with Colonel Sanders franchises in Bangkok. John B,
its up to you!

-- Jay Beattie.


No question, you foreigners talk funny.

When you say "banh mi" are talking about "ba mee" which is Chinese and
is a type of noodle. Not cooked noodles, just noodles :-O) They are
dried noodles, not wet noodles, and you buy them in a box and than
cook them with something to get a little flavor. Like Ba mee phad phak
- stir fried noodles with mixed veggies, or even ba mee haeng which is
cooked noodles served without the soup stock. Haeng meaning "dry".


Not at all. When the sign (in the USA) advertises "banh mi" one expects
a Vietnamese style sub sandwich, with cold cuts, or barbecue, or fish
balls (my favorite). Garnished with cilantro, and pickled radishes, and
who knows what else.

As I understand it, the baguette is a relic of French adventurism, gone
bush.


Interesting. Nothing like that seems to exist here, and probably
wouldn't be very popular if it did as Thai's (in the "old country")
don't seem to eat sandwiches. Perhaps Vietnamese and added to the menu
because "Farangs will eat anything" :-)

The current price for a bowl of ba mee haeng, on the street, is about
40 baht - $1.30. In the Food Court at a big Shopping Center it is 130
baht - $4.30, my wife tells me.
--
cheers,

John B.

--
cheers,

John B.

  #73  
Old October 19th 19, 02:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default ride faster!

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 17:35:25 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, 18 October 2019 20:15:20 UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 16:17:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/18/2019 3:14 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 18 October 2019 11:34:47 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/18/2019 10:54 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 12:27:32 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 18.10.2019 um 01:21 schrieb Tom Kunich:
I'd be interest to hear where you got your information "that riding on a sidewalk is 3 times as dangerous as riding on the road".

If the sidewalk if that dangerous why do you suppose the law says that anyone 13 and younger can ride on the sidewalk?

Actually, it doesn't. German lay says anybody under the age of 8 must
use the sidewalk, children under the age of 10 and parents accompanying
children under the age of 8 may use the sidewalk.
Anybody using the sidewalk must dismount at each junction and cross the
road as a pedestrian.

Ensuring cyclists on sidewalks never have priority over others minimizes
the collisions between cyclists and turning vehicles because turning
vehicles can't violate the cyclists' priority ;-)

Here it is 13. And dismounting to cross a street is pretty much universally ignored. But that wasn't the case in that video - that was a truck driver crossing a sidewalk from a driveway exit from a gas station. Something entirely different and one in which any and all sidewalk users have right-of-way. The real kicker was the Truck ignored the accident making it a hit and run unless he pulled over immediately.

FWIW, other sources said the trucker never saw the cyclist and didn't
realize he'd hit anyone. When others stopped him, he didn't flee. He
stayed and cooperated.

I think it's entirely possible his story is true. See
https://grist.org/living/this-video-...low-your-mind/

and
http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/...-about-trucks/

Riding on sidewalks is, on average, much more dangerous than riding on
streets. Riding contra-flow on sidewalks is even more dangerous. That
doesn't mean that nobody should ever ride on a sidewalk. But it means
one needs to be very aware of the hazards.

And one needs to be very aware of the blind spots of large vehicles.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Nice video from the UNITED KINGDOM. I like this part of the article: " you’ve gotta feel a little bit sorry for the truck driver in this scenario, too. She or he is basically steering the Titanic, probably doing so on insufficient sleep, and trying to do her best with subpar mirrors." Perhaps those lorries should be equipped with better mirrors if the ones they have are known to be sub-par?

We have a friend who's been a long-haul trucker for years. She's
actually quite an interesting person: Brilliant at math with degrees to
prove it, worked for IBM till she tired of the boredom, but also moved
to France to study philosophy before taking up trucking, which she
loves. She worked for a while in a bike shop, and she took a cycling
class from me and carries a folding bike in her rig.

She's confirmed that there are huge blind spots around big rigs, and
that there's no way a trucker can see close all around the vehicle. She
said she's most nervous at truck stops, because she could check
diligently all around yet have someone walk into a blind spot as she
began moving. But she also worries about running over an ignorant
cyclist. (That's how quite a few women cyclists died in London -
sneaking up on the curb side of a truck that was turning.)

Maybe this will soon get better. There are cars now with 360 degree
cameras. I imagine the next generation of trucks will have similar
technology. But the trailers will still be a risk.


I think I will continue using my method. "Don't get in the way of big
trucks", which means that you take the responsibility on your
shoulders to keep out of their way rather than depend on them not to
hit you.
--
cheers,

John B.


I once bailed on the approach to a narrow bridge a few years ago. I did it because the third 18-wheeler behind me had it's wheels over the fog line and none of the three trucks was showing any signs of slowing down. Figure that if push comes to shove that any 18-wheeler will win over any bicycle. Funny thing was that someone on this group told me that I shouldn't be riding on the road if I was such a scardy cat. See the image if it shows. Once on that bridge the lane is very narrow and there is absolutely no place for a bicycle to move to in order to avoid an overtaking vehicle.



They've since added a sign telling bicyclists and motor vehicles to travel in single file and they've also added a curb as you approach that bridge. That curb would make bailing a lot harder than it was when it was a soft shoulder.

If an 18-wheeler wants to challenge me I'll yield to it. Even Geritol won't relieve that run-down feeling. LOL

Cheers


Well, that's two of us that have good sense :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #74  
Old October 19th 19, 06:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default ride faster!

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 17:05:03 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 09:22:08 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:


The bruha is the racing and pacing industry says that 1% are knackeed/
slaughtered, but 4,000 p.a. is about 50% of the annual production of
yearlings.

I read that in 2008 there were 11,442 2 year olds that actually started.
The North American foal crop was 38,034 in 2006. So about 30%
of the foals born, in 2006, actually raced while 70% obviously did not.
I assume that some were injured but I suspect that a large number were
culled as not being worth training.

I don't know the Australian figures but I suspect that they would be
similar to the N. American figures. If 70% of the crop is a failure what
are you going to do with them?


Obviously dog meat for one, greyhounds in particular, but IME a lot of
pet shop stock horse meat for pets




Think of it, almost 2,000 times as many cattle and sheep doomed to
death
and not a single voice raised. Oh! The Shame!


You've left ot al those vege, four per meal, that also get
"slaughtered".
Munch, munch.


Which, if you are living in Australia are probably imported from China.


Err NO. Australia exports lots of their water in meat, vegetables, etc
overseas. In fact, most agricutural production is destined for overseas
market. Up to 90% in some areas.

From the 70's, one of the ongong lessons was that if you had the resources
(land and water) and cheap transport(often relative), it was very easy to
glut the market and consequently not even cover growing expenses, let
alone make any profit.

Or at least when I visited W. Australia some years ago I was told that
veggies could be imported from China cheaper than they could be raised
locally :-)


Transport costs. This is why all the promo for the potential of the "Ord
River Scheme" (major irrigation scheme in NW Australia) has been clearly
bull**** from start and it still goes on.

As to raising them, there isn't a lot of good produce soils through out
the NW. When you can dig out a mountain and jst ship if off for steel
making, that tells you a lot of the nature of the land.

In that area, it would be easier to raise produce in industrial green
houses in that area, especially now that solar power is orders of
magnitude cheaper. It was similar in Darwin decades ago(mostly shipped in
from South Australia), but the local knowledge has grown so that they can
produce a lot of their produce locally.


  #75  
Old October 19th 19, 08:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default ride faster!

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 05:07:49 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 17:05:03 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 09:22:08 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:


The bruha is the racing and pacing industry says that 1% are knackeed/
slaughtered, but 4,000 p.a. is about 50% of the annual production of
yearlings.

I read that in 2008 there were 11,442 2 year olds that actually started.
The North American foal crop was 38,034 in 2006. So about 30%
of the foals born, in 2006, actually raced while 70% obviously did not.
I assume that some were injured but I suspect that a large number were
culled as not being worth training.

I don't know the Australian figures but I suspect that they would be
similar to the N. American figures. If 70% of the crop is a failure what
are you going to do with them?


Obviously dog meat for one, greyhounds in particular, but IME a lot of
pet shop stock horse meat for pets

Apparently a lot of countries eat horses. I read that "The top eight
countries consume about 4.7 million horses a year."

Think of it, almost 2,000 times as many cattle and sheep doomed to
death
and not a single voice raised. Oh! The Shame!

You've left ot al those vege, four per meal, that also get
"slaughtered".
Munch, munch.


Which, if you are living in Australia are probably imported from China.


Err NO. Australia exports lots of their water in meat, vegetables, etc
overseas. In fact, most agricutural production is destined for overseas
market. Up to 90% in some areas.

From the 70's, one of the ongong lessons was that if you had the resources
(land and water) and cheap transport(often relative), it was very easy to
glut the market and consequently not even cover growing expenses, let
alone make any profit.

Or at least when I visited W. Australia some years ago I was told that
veggies could be imported from China cheaper than they could be raised
locally :-)


Transport costs. This is why all the promo for the potential of the "Ord
River Scheme" (major irrigation scheme in NW Australia) has been clearly
bull**** from start and it still goes on.


It costs less to ship from China to W. Australia than from the east
coast of Australia to the west coast? And Shanghai is 4,000 miles away
while Sidney is only 2,187 nautical miles (or 2516 land miles) miles
away?

As to raising them, there isn't a lot of good produce soils through out
the NW. When you can dig out a mountain and jst ship if off for steel
making, that tells you a lot of the nature of the land.


Productive soils and you ship it off for steel making? Errr, I think
that is a different "soil" than that used to grow veggies :-)

In that area, it would be easier to raise produce in industrial green
houses in that area, especially now that solar power is orders of
magnitude cheaper. It was similar in Darwin decades ago(mostly shipped in
from South Australia), but the local knowledge has grown so that they can
produce a lot of their produce locally.

Easier, but what about costs?
I read that minimum wages in Australia is A$17.70/hour while in some
provinces in China it is 1,000 rbn/month and in Shanghai it is about
2,000. That is something like A$419 a month in Shanghai and A$2,949 a
month in Australia, or another way to say it is that it costs 7 times
as much money to hire an Australian.

And, I'd guess that all the ancillary costs, lights, water,
transportation, probably even taxes, are equally as expensive in
Australia relative to China.

Which, of course, is exactly the problem that the U.S. has. I read
somewhere that auto plant workers make something like US$ 30/hour plus
all the overhead of doing business in the U.S. :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

  #76  
Old October 19th 19, 12:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default ride faster!

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:09:54 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 05:07:49 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 17:05:03 +0700, John B. wrote:


Which, if you are living in Australia are probably imported from
China.


Err NO. Australia exports lots of their water in meat, vegetables, etc
overseas. In fact, most agricutural production is destined for overseas
market. Up to 90% in some areas.

From the 70's, one of the ongong lessons was that if you had the
resources (land and water) and cheap transport(often relative), it was
very easy to glut the market and consequently not even cover growing
expenses, let alone make any profit.

Or at least when I visited W. Australia some years ago I was told that
veggies could be imported from China cheaper than they could be raised
locally :-)


Transport costs. This is why all the promo for the potential of the "Ord
River Scheme" (major irrigation scheme in NW Australia) has been clearly
bull**** from start and it still goes on.


It costs less to ship from China to W. Australia than from the east
coast of Australia to the west coast?


Yes/sort of. (1) but who in their right mind would import foodstuffs from
China? It has a long history of being unsafe this is why the Chinese wil
buy as much as they can of Australian prodct and ship it to China. don't
mention baby formula. It is only chinese customs, tarrifs and
restrictions that restrict the flood into China.

(2) Bulk shipping of iron ore is very cheap because the amount is massive
and not time critical. What land shipment occurs is all on special
railroad. Trade the other way is so little, time critical for food, and
requires special containers, especially refrigeration.

And Shanghai is 4,000 miles away
while Sidney is only 2,187 nautical miles (or 2516 land miles) miles
away?


That is comparing chalk and cheese.

Have you ever heard of the Baltic Dry Shipping Index? It is basically an
indicator of the global cost of shipping and why China can flood
Australia by ship, with cheap plastic & steel & other product far cheaper
than Australia can product it. It is also why bulk Australian farm goods
can compete overseas.

However to move farm produce by land has to be orders of magnitude more
expensive. At best one road train driver would be dragging three
containers worth of goods and there would be regulations that prevent
continuous driving.Not to mention it is totally unsafe. The containers
would have to be refrigerated and off mixed produce(acculmulated from
different, seperated sorces.



As to raising them, there isn't a lot of good produce soils through out
the NW. When you can dig out a mountain and jst ship if off for steel
making, that tells you a lot of the nature of the land.


Productive soils and you ship it off for steel making? Errr, I think
that is a different "soil" than that used to grow veggies :-)


That is what I'm saying. Those red soils are red from the high iron
content and there is no significnt overburden laden with carbon. It s
thin and scattered. Plus, water is erratic.

In that area, it would be easier to raise produce in industrial green
houses in that area, especially now that solar power is orders of
magnitude cheaper. It was similar in Darwin decades ago(mostly shipped
in from South Australia), but the local knowledge has grown so that they
can produce a lot of their produce locally.

Easier, but what about costs?


It is relative. If you can produce it for sale locally than the imported
product, you produce it. aka shipped in from the rest of the coutry,.

The cost of solar electricty, for pump, lighting, etc is cheaper than any
other form atm. The tricky bit is the cost of storage as that hasn't
dropped at the same rate of panels. Lithium stll has a way to go before
it beats good old lead for storage costs.

Theres no mains power in NW Australia. For SW WA, higher population, they
have their own mains. The rest of the country shares another collective
main power system,


I read that minimum wages in Australia is A$17.70/hour while in some
provinces in China it is 1,000 rbn/month and in Shanghai it is about
2,000. That is something like A$419 a month in Shanghai and A$2,949 a
month in Australia, or another way to say it is that it costs 7 times as
much money to hire an Australian.


Every country has their local wages and comparisons are useless.

And, I'd guess that all the ancillary costs, lights, water,
transportation, probably even taxes, are equally as expensive in
Australia relative to China.

Which, of course, is exactly the problem that the U.S. has. I read
somewhere that auto plant workers make something like US$ 30/hour plus
all the overhead of doing business in the U.S. :-(


Again cheese and chalk. The changes in production of and market for motor
vehiciles has changed greatly. Firstly cost of production has fallen from
technological change since Henry Ford, especially the mass part. Throw in
that cheap global shipping and it became cheaper to think of world
markets which has been largely what has happened for decades.

At one stage, Australia subsidised three car makers, then it became two
and finally GovCo pulled the subsidies because overseas auto makers could
produce motor vehicles for Australian conditions and to meet Australian
regulations. Toyota and others were doing to Australian car maufacturers
for decades before what they did to the USA car manufacturers. The
problems suffered in the USA by USA car manufacturere were just extreme
stupidy. Both Ford & GMH/GMC effectively owned the last two Australian
car manufactuers.

Another thnk is "smarts". The australian education system ids world
ranking and produces skilled worker as all levels. So much that Boeing
elected to expand their design team with an office in Brisbane. They
didn't go to China for that.

While Australiam manufacturing has all but packed up,but not quiet, there
are plenty of them that remain overseas competitive because they can
produce quality goods that the Chinese can not. A local manufacturer
still makes alternators for overseas contracts for Ford because the
Chinese not meet te quality requirements. Another manufacturer produces
plastic screw tops, even though his raw stock comes from China because he
can produce and ship orders globally faster and of higer quality than
other sources.

  #77  
Old October 20th 19, 12:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default ride faster!

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 11:33:28 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:09:54 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 05:07:49 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 17:05:03 +0700, John B. wrote:


Which, if you are living in Australia are probably imported from
China.

Err NO. Australia exports lots of their water in meat, vegetables, etc
overseas. In fact, most agricutural production is destined for overseas
market. Up to 90% in some areas.

From the 70's, one of the ongong lessons was that if you had the
resources (land and water) and cheap transport(often relative), it was
very easy to glut the market and consequently not even cover growing
expenses, let alone make any profit.

Or at least when I visited W. Australia some years ago I was told that
veggies could be imported from China cheaper than they could be raised
locally :-)

Transport costs. This is why all the promo for the potential of the "Ord
River Scheme" (major irrigation scheme in NW Australia) has been clearly
bull**** from start and it still goes on.


It costs less to ship from China to W. Australia than from the east
coast of Australia to the west coast?


Yes/sort of. (1) but who in their right mind would import foodstuffs from
China? It has a long history of being unsafe this is why the Chinese wil
buy as much as they can of Australian prodct and ship it to China. don't
mention baby formula. It is only chinese customs, tarrifs and
restrictions that restrict the flood into China.

As I previously wrote, when I was in Perth, several years ago I was
told by several different people that the vegetables available in
Perth came from China shipped in cold boxes.

I have no idea whether this was true or not but as several different
people all said the same thing I accepted it as true.

(2) Bulk shipping of iron ore is very cheap because the amount is massive
and not time critical. What land shipment occurs is all on special
railroad. Trade the other way is so little, time critical for food, and
requires special containers, especially refrigeration.

And Shanghai is 4,000 miles away
while Sidney is only 2,187 nautical miles (or 2516 land miles) miles
away?


That is comparing chalk and cheese.

\
Nope, it is comparing the ocean shipping distance :-)

Have you ever heard of the Baltic Dry Shipping Index? It is basically an
indicator of the global cost of shipping and why China can flood
Australia by ship, with cheap plastic & steel & other product far cheaper
than Australia can product it. It is also why bulk Australian farm goods
can compete overseas.


No I had not, but I know that the shipping cost, per container, from,
say Shanghai to San Diego, varies on an almost daily basis.

However to move farm produce by land has to be orders of magnitude more
expensive. At best one road train driver would be dragging three
containers worth of goods and there would be regulations that prevent
continuous driving.Not to mention it is totally unsafe. The containers
would have to be refrigerated and off mixed produce(acculmulated from
different, seperated sorces.


I don't know about Australia but there are a large number of U.S.
trucking companies that specialize in hauling refrigerated cargo. The
first company I checked had been in the refrigerated hauling business
since 1993 - 26 years - so apparently they aren't are not what one
might call "fly by night" companies.



As to raising them, there isn't a lot of good produce soils through out
the NW. When you can dig out a mountain and jst ship if off for steel
making, that tells you a lot of the nature of the land.


Productive soils and you ship it off for steel making? Errr, I think
that is a different "soil" than that used to grow veggies :-)


That is what I'm saying. Those red soils are red from the high iron
content and there is no significnt overburden laden with carbon. It s
thin and scattered. Plus, water is erratic.

In that area, it would be easier to raise produce in industrial green
houses in that area, especially now that solar power is orders of
magnitude cheaper. It was similar in Darwin decades ago(mostly shipped
in from South Australia), but the local knowledge has grown so that they
can produce a lot of their produce locally.

Easier, but what about costs?


It is relative. If you can produce it for sale locally than the imported
product, you produce it. aka shipped in from the rest of the coutry,.

The cost of solar electricty, for pump, lighting, etc is cheaper than any
other form atm. The tricky bit is the cost of storage as that hasn't
dropped at the same rate of panels. Lithium stll has a way to go before
it beats good old lead for storage costs.

Theres no mains power in NW Australia. For SW WA, higher population, they
have their own mains. The rest of the country shares another collective
main power system,


I read that minimum wages in Australia is A$17.70/hour while in some
provinces in China it is 1,000 rbn/month and in Shanghai it is about
2,000. That is something like A$419 a month in Shanghai and A$2,949 a
month in Australia, or another way to say it is that it costs 7 times as
much money to hire an Australian.


Every country has their local wages and comparisons are useless.


How so? After all the entire cost of doing business has to be covered
if a company is going to stay in business and wages make up a
significant part of that cost. And if you sell your product in foreign
countries that your costs are directly comparable with the costs in
the company in which you are selling your product.

And, I'd guess that all the ancillary costs, lights, water,
transportation, probably even taxes, are equally as expensive in
Australia relative to China.

Which, of course, is exactly the problem that the U.S. has. I read
somewhere that auto plant workers make something like US$ 30/hour plus
all the overhead of doing business in the U.S. :-(


Again cheese and chalk. The changes in production of and market for motor
vehiciles has changed greatly. Firstly cost of production has fallen from
technological change since Henry Ford, especially the mass part. Throw in
that cheap global shipping and it became cheaper to think of world
markets which has been largely what has happened for decades.


Strange than, isn't it, that U.S. companies, and foreign companies,
build car factories in Mexico?

From: The acceleration of Mexico's auto manufacturing industry
dated: 6 Aug 2015

"These low wages also make Mexico an attractive place for investment.
When it comes to small cars like the Ford Fiesta, Mexico has at least
a $600-700 labour cost advantage over the US, says McAlinden."


At one stage, Australia subsidised three car makers, then it became two
and finally GovCo pulled the subsidies because overseas auto makers could
produce motor vehicles for Australian conditions and to meet Australian
regulations. Toyota and others were doing to Australian car maufacturers
for decades before what they did to the USA car manufacturers. The
problems suffered in the USA by USA car manufacturere were just extreme
stupidy. Both Ford & GMH/GMC effectively owned the last two Australian
car manufactuers.

Another thnk is "smarts". The australian education system ids world
ranking and produces skilled worker as all levels. So much that Boeing
elected to expand their design team with an office in Brisbane. They
didn't go to China for that.


Dated: 15 December 2018
ZHOUSHAN, China (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N) opened its first 737
completion plant in China on Saturday, a strategic investment aimed at
building a sales lead over arch-rival Airbus (AIR.PA) in one of the
world's top travel markets.

While Australiam manufacturing has all but packed up,but not quiet, there
are plenty of them that remain overseas competitive because they can
produce quality goods that the Chinese can not. A local manufacturer
still makes alternators for overseas contracts for Ford because the
Chinese not meet te quality requirements. Another manufacturer produces
plastic screw tops, even though his raw stock comes from China because he
can produce and ship orders globally faster and of higer quality than
other sources.

--
cheers,

John B.

  #78  
Old October 20th 19, 02:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default ride faster!

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 06:08:47 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 11:33:28 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:09:54 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 05:07:49 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 17:05:03 +0700, John B. wrote:

Which, if you are living in Australia are probably imported from
China.

Err NO. Australia exports lots of their water in meat, vegetables, etc
overseas. In fact, most agricutural production is destined for overseas
market. Up to 90% in some areas.

From the 70's, one of the ongong lessons was that if you had the
resources (land and water) and cheap transport(often relative), it was
very easy to glut the market and consequently not even cover growing
expenses, let alone make any profit.

Or at least when I visited W. Australia some years ago I was told that
veggies could be imported from China cheaper than they could be raised
locally :-)

Transport costs. This is why all the promo for the potential of the "Ord
River Scheme" (major irrigation scheme in NW Australia) has been clearly
bull**** from start and it still goes on.

It costs less to ship from China to W. Australia than from the east
coast of Australia to the west coast?


Yes/sort of. (1) but who in their right mind would import foodstuffs from
China? It has a long history of being unsafe this is why the Chinese wil
buy as much as they can of Australian prodct and ship it to China. don't
mention baby formula. It is only chinese customs, tarrifs and
restrictions that restrict the flood into China.

As I previously wrote, when I was in Perth, several years ago I was
told by several different people that the vegetables available in
Perth came from China shipped in cold boxes.

I have no idea whether this was true or not but as several different
people all said the same thing I accepted it as true.

(2) Bulk shipping of iron ore is very cheap because the amount is massive
and not time critical. What land shipment occurs is all on special
railroad. Trade the other way is so little, time critical for food, and
requires special containers, especially refrigeration.

And Shanghai is 4,000 miles away
while Sidney is only 2,187 nautical miles (or 2516 land miles) miles
away?


That is comparing chalk and cheese.

\
Nope, it is comparing the ocean shipping distance :-)

Have you ever heard of the Baltic Dry Shipping Index? It is basically an
indicator of the global cost of shipping and why China can flood
Australia by ship, with cheap plastic & steel & other product far cheaper
than Australia can product it. It is also why bulk Australian farm goods
can compete overseas.


No I had not, but I know that the shipping cost, per container, from,
say Shanghai to San Diego, varies on an almost daily basis.

However to move farm produce by land has to be orders of magnitude more
expensive. At best one road train driver would be dragging three
containers worth of goods and there would be regulations that prevent
continuous driving.Not to mention it is totally unsafe. The containers
would have to be refrigerated and off mixed produce(acculmulated from
different, seperated sorces.


I don't know about Australia but there are a large number of U.S.
trucking companies that specialize in hauling refrigerated cargo. The
first company I checked had been in the refrigerated hauling business
since 1993 - 26 years - so apparently they aren't are not what one
might call "fly by night" companies.



As to raising them, there isn't a lot of good produce soils through out
the NW. When you can dig out a mountain and jst ship if off for steel
making, that tells you a lot of the nature of the land.

Productive soils and you ship it off for steel making? Errr, I think
that is a different "soil" than that used to grow veggies :-)


That is what I'm saying. Those red soils are red from the high iron
content and there is no significnt overburden laden with carbon. It s
thin and scattered. Plus, water is erratic.

In that area, it would be easier to raise produce in industrial green
houses in that area, especially now that solar power is orders of
magnitude cheaper. It was similar in Darwin decades ago(mostly shipped
in from South Australia), but the local knowledge has grown so that they
can produce a lot of their produce locally.

Easier, but what about costs?


It is relative. If you can produce it for sale locally than the imported
product, you produce it. aka shipped in from the rest of the coutry,.

The cost of solar electricty, for pump, lighting, etc is cheaper than any
other form atm. The tricky bit is the cost of storage as that hasn't
dropped at the same rate of panels. Lithium stll has a way to go before
it beats good old lead for storage costs.

Theres no mains power in NW Australia. For SW WA, higher population, they
have their own mains. The rest of the country shares another collective
main power system,


I read that minimum wages in Australia is A$17.70/hour while in some
provinces in China it is 1,000 rbn/month and in Shanghai it is about
2,000. That is something like A$419 a month in Shanghai and A$2,949 a
month in Australia, or another way to say it is that it costs 7 times as
much money to hire an Australian.


Every country has their local wages and comparisons are useless.


How so? After all the entire cost of doing business has to be covered
if a company is going to stay in business and wages make up a
significant part of that cost. And if you sell your product in foreign
countries that your costs are directly comparable with the costs in
the company in which you are selling your product.


Should have read "the country in which you are selling your product"


--
cheers,

John B.

  #79  
Old October 20th 19, 10:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default ride faster!

On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 06:08:47 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 11:33:28 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:09:54 +0700, John B. wrote:


It costs less to ship from China to W. Australia than from the east
coast of Australia to the west coast?


Yes/sort of. (1) but who in their right mind would import foodstuffs
from China? It has a long history of being unsafe this is why the
Chinese wil buy as much as they can of Australian prodct and ship it to
China. don't mention baby formula. It is only chinese customs, tarrifs
and restrictions that restrict the flood into China.

As I previously wrote, when I was in Perth, several years ago I was told
by several different people that the vegetables available in Perth came
from China shipped in cold boxes.


No, you said NW WA and Perth is SW WA, aka difference between top and
bottom of Australia. Or about only 30-60% of the road distance. Food coud
be shipped from major market in Adelaide(SA-middle bottom), Melbourne
(Vic) and Sydney(NSW).

Probably some, that would only be some hard to grow stuff and as I said,
who in their right mind would buy food grown in China with endless food
contamination issues.

I have no idea whether this was true or not but as several different
people all said the same thing I accepted it as true.


Devil would be in the details as to what "food" as they(WA) have no
problems in growing grains, pulses and many vegetables.

Caveat, I do not know of major centre in austlia that doesn't have stocks
of food stuff, especially in glass/tins from all over the globe.

(2) Bulk shipping of iron ore is very cheap because the amount is
massive and not time critical. What land shipment occurs is all on
special railroad. Trade the other way is so little, time critical for
food, and requires special containers, especially refrigeration.

And Shanghai is 4,000 miles away while Sidney is only 2,187 nautical
miles (or 2516 land miles) miles away?


That is comparing chalk and cheese.

\
Nope, it is comparing the ocean shipping distance :-)


Nope, the land distance across australia in about 60% of the distance to
NW WA. Two days of driving a B-double(double semi) versus, 1 day to get
it onto ship, 4-6? days around the coast and another day to get it off
the ship.

Hint, there is (almost totally) nil ocean shipping of food stuffs, around
Australia. There is stuff that comes in globally in containners amongst
the mass of goods imported and stuff that is "valuable" and be air
freighted in container lots for planes.

If there was any significant ocean shipping around the coast of
Australia, then there would not be trains of 100 railway wagons carrying
containers multiple times a day between the various capital cities.

Have you ever heard of the Baltic Dry Shipping Index? It is basically an
indicator of the global cost of shipping and why China can flood
Australia by ship, with cheap plastic & steel & other product far
cheaper than Australia can product it. It is also why bulk Australian
farm goods can compete overseas.


No I had not, but I know that the shipping cost, per container, from,
say Shanghai to San Diego, varies on an almost daily basis.


From the book Junkyard Planet I believe that shipping the other way
(backhaul from the mass of Asian exports) is much cheaper, which was
major part of the economics of shipping USk landfill to Asia for
recycling.


I read that minimum wages in Australia is A$17.70/hour


For what? kids? Back packers in agriculture desperate for 2nd year of
VISA?

while in some
provinces in China it is 1,000 rbn/month and in Shanghai it is about
2,000. That is something like A$419 a month in Shanghai and A$2,949 a
month in Australia, or another way to say it is that it costs 7 times
as much money to hire an Australian.


Every country has their local wages and comparisons are useless.


How so? After all the entire cost of doing business has to be covered if
a company is going to stay in business and wages make up a significant
part of that cost. And if you sell your product in foreign countries
that your costs are directly comparable with the costs in the company in
which you are selling your product.


When you start shipping stuff around the globe, then labour is only part
of the cost. Timeliness and cost of transport is the larger killer. Now
you are talking from planes, through road/rail to shipping.

And in transport, economy of scale is another major factor. Hint,all
goods movement usually includes two of them and one of them can easily be
the killer cost. Your example in China pointed out that out. Cheape
global shipping is only a minor factor if your factory is in Shanghai.

Do a bit of web searching on Parkes N.S.W. and their continual calls for
an International Airport so can gain direct international access to ship
produce directly overseas.

Also, the Federal GovCo is currently pork barelling an internal rail
route that will connect Melburne( bottom SE Aus) to Brisbane(Mid East
coast to improve market access to shipping. Although there are a number
of mines along the route and thus it is not primarily about food stuffs.

Lastly, isn;t there a reason why your company pays you a higher wage than
the locals?


And, I'd guess that all the ancillary costs, lights, water,
transportation, probably even taxes, are equally as expensive in
Australia relative to China.

Which, of course, is exactly the problem that the U.S. has. I read
somewhere that auto plant workers make something like US$ 30/hour plus
all the overhead of doing business in the U.S. :-(


Again cheese and chalk. The changes in production of and market for
motor vehiciles has changed greatly. Firstly cost of production has
fallen from technological change since Henry Ford, especially the mass
part. Throw in that cheap global shipping and it became cheaper to think
of world markets which has been largely what has happened for decades.


Strange than, isn't it, that U.S. companies, and foreign companies,
build car factories in Mexico?


Basically, what I said, they are no longer doing it in the USA, but
elsewhere. Interestingly, my last pick-up was bult in Thailand

Another thnk is "smarts". The australian education system ids world
ranking and produces skilled worker as all levels. So much that Boeing
elected to expand their design team with an office in Brisbane. They
didn't go to China for that.


Dated: 15 December 2018 ZHOUSHAN, China (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N)
opened its first 737 completion plant in China on Saturday, a strategic
investment aimed at building a sales lead over arch-rival Airbus
(AIR.PA) in one of the world's top travel markets.


Err, so they opened a sales room, where as they opened in Australia in
2002. Ref https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Australia
Admittedly some of that is sales and support as well, but smarts was a
big factor.
  #80  
Old October 20th 19, 05:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default ride faster!

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 5:18:56 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, 16 October 2019 16:20:38 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
https://nypost.com/video/cyclist-t-b...y-to-be-alive/

Had he been just a bit slower, he would have been killed.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Just watched the video again in slow motion and stop frames. If the bicyclist had 1. kept his hand on the handlebar and continued pedaling he would have been missed by t he truck. You can see that when he outs his hand towards the truck that he turns his front wheel towards to truck too and a bit later he has his right foot on the ground. A bit of a sprint would have been far better evasive action. He's really lucky that he didn't go under a wheel.

Cheers


Do not pretend to have any more skill than the rider. He was busy screaming to direct the truck drivers attention to someone other than going somewhere as fast as possible. It was absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for that truck driver NOT to have seen that bicyclist being hit by him directly under his window and he continued driving away.
 




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