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#11
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Climbing: riding on the tops vs riding on the brake hoods
On Jul 27, 6:36 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote: I believe that stem height has gone down in the last decade so that riding on the hoods now is almost like riding in the drops was before. In particular, Indurain used to climb in the drops! Also, if you look at riders in the 70's they did all their racing in the drops, some of them with their forearms parallel to the ground, elbows bent at 90 degrees. Sean Kelly rode this way and when he was on the handlebar tops near the stem he was almost sitting up straight. In the 70s we raced in the drops more for two reasons. #1: You were closer to the gear shifters. It was a very easy thing to drop your hand down to the shift lever when you were in the drops. #2: The brakes weren't nearly as good then as they are now, so you needed a death grip to slow down, and you just couldn't get that much braking power from the tops of the hoods. STI/Ergo shifting changed things dramatically. All of a sudden you were spending a lot more time out on the hoods, because that's where you shifted from. So bars with large forward reaches, popular back in the day, caused problems because you got too stretched out from all that time in the hoods, and if you shortened the stem to make the reach better, the "tops" of the bar were too close. It took a bit for people to realize that a shorter forward reach fixed things nicely. Stems height can safely be lowered now because we're not spending extended periods of time in the drops anymore, so we can adopt a more-aggressive position (in the drops) than we could before. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA wrote in message ... On Jul 26, 8:52 pm, hizark21 wrote: Climbing: riding on the tops vs riding on the brake hoods I have noticed that most climber since the mid 90's tend to climb seated with their hands on hoods.Personally I prefer climbing on the tops since this a more relaxed position. Climbing seated on the hoods put's more strain on my wrists. The one advantage of the hoods is that you can brake faster. In the end I suppose it's a matter of climbing style. I believe that stem height has gone down in the last decade so that riding on the hoods now is almost like riding in the drops was before. In particular, Indurain used to climb in the drops! Also, if you look at riders in the 70's they did all their racing in the drops, some of them with their forearms parallel to the ground, elbows bent at 90 degrees. Sean Kelly rode this way and when he was on the handlebar tops near the stem he was almost sitting up straight. -ilan OK, but can you explain this video: http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...ansitions2.mov The guy has a pretty large saddle to stem drop, but he's totally sitting up anyway when on the brake hoods. Stem too short? Bike size too small? A triathlon bike without aerobars? -ilan |
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#12
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Climbing: riding on the tops vs riding on the brake hoods
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#14
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Climbing: riding on the tops vs riding on the brake hoods
In article
, wrote: OK, but can you explain this video: http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...ansitions2.mov The guy has a pretty large saddle to stem drop, but he's totally sitting up anyway when on the brake hoods. Stem too short? Bike size too small? A triathlon bike without aerobars? Dumbass: You're seriously asking us to explain triathlete bike fit issues? Nobody can. Pull a stunt like this again and I killfile you, -- Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/ "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls." "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them." |
#15
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Climbing: riding on the tops vs riding on the brake hoods
On Jul 28, 1:42 am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article , wrote: OK, but can you explain this video: http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...ansitions2.mov The guy has a pretty large saddle to stem drop, but he's totally sitting up anyway when on the brake hoods. Stem too short? Bike size too small? A triathlon bike without aerobars? Dumbass: You're seriously asking us to explain triathlete bike fit issues? Nobody can. Pull a stunt like this again and I killfile you, -- Ryan Cousineau / "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls." "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them." Just thought it would be a nice change of pace after the impeccable Tour riders. Speaking of riding on the tops, the worst riding I've seen in a long time (the guy on the track bike): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjjfa1xpSg4 -ilan |
#16
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Climbing: riding on the tops vs riding on the brake hoods
Riding on the flats is a different issue since one is usually
traveling at a higher rate of speed. So the need for speed control is greater to avoid obstacles. On Jul 27, 4:42*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote: In article , wrote: OK, but can you explain this video: http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...ansitions2.mov The guy has a pretty large saddle to stem drop, but he's totally sitting up anyway when on the brake hoods. Stem too short? Bike size too small? A triathlon bike without aerobars? Dumbass: You're seriously asking us to explain triathlete bike fit issues? Nobody can. Pull a stunt like this again and I killfile you, -- Ryan Cousineau / "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls." "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them." |
#17
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Climbing: riding on the tops vs riding on the brake hoods
On Jul 27, 3:05*pm, wrote:
On Jul 27, 6:36 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: I believe that stem height has gone down in the last decade so that riding on the hoods now is almost like riding in the drops was before.. In particular, Indurain used to climb in the drops! Also, if you look at riders in the 70's they did all their racing in the drops, some of them with their forearms parallel to the ground, elbows bent at 90 degrees. Sean Kelly rode this way and when he was on the handlebar tops near the stem he was almost sitting up straight. In the 70s we raced in the drops more for two reasons. #1: You were closer to the gear shifters. It was a very easy thing to drop your hand down to the shift lever when you were in the drops. #2: The brakes weren't nearly as good then as they are now, so you needed a death grip to slow down, and you just couldn't get that much braking power from the tops of the hoods. STI/Ergo *shifting changed things dramatically. All of a sudden you were spending a lot more time out on the hoods, because that's where you shifted from. So bars with large forward reaches, popular back in the day, caused problems because you got too stretched out from all that time in the hoods, and if you shortened the stem to make the reach better, the "tops" of the bar were too close. It took a bit for people to realize that a shorter forward reach fixed things nicely. Stems height can safely be lowered now because we're not spending extended periods of time in the drops anymore, so we can adopt a more-aggressive position (in the drops) than we could before. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA wrote in message ... On Jul 26, 8:52 pm, hizark21 wrote: Climbing: riding on the tops vs riding on the brake hoods I have noticed that most climber since the mid 90's tend to climb seated with their hands on hoods.Personally I prefer climbing on the tops since this a more relaxed position. Climbing seated on the hoods put's more strain on my wrists. *The one advantage of the hoods is that you can brake faster. In the end I suppose it's a matter of climbing style. I believe that stem height has gone down in the last decade so that riding on the hoods now is almost like riding in the drops was before.. In particular, Indurain used to climb in the drops! Also, if you look at riders in the 70's they did all their racing in the drops, some of them with their forearms parallel to the ground, elbows bent at 90 degrees. Sean Kelly rode this way and when he was on the handlebar tops near the stem he was almost sitting up straight. -ilan OK, but can you explain this video:http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...ansitions2.mov The guy has a pretty large saddle to stem drop, but he's totally sitting up anyway when on the brake hoods. Stem too short? Bike size too small? A triathlon bike without aerobars? -ilan- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The saddle is very far forward and the stem is pretty short, ala TT or Tri setup. Mount the aero bars and have the rider drop down on his forearms, and his torso will be almost level. |
#18
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Climbing: riding on the tops vs riding on the brake hoods
In article
, wrote: On Jul 28, 1:42 am, Ryan Cousineau wrote: In article , wrote: OK, but can you explain this video: http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...ansitions2.mov The guy has a pretty large saddle to stem drop, but he's totally sitting up anyway when on the brake hoods. Stem too short? Bike size too small? A triathlon bike without aerobars? Dumbass: You're seriously asking us to explain triathlete bike fit issues? Nobody can. Pull a stunt like this again and I killfile you, Just thought it would be a nice change of pace after the impeccable Tour riders. Speaking of riding on the tops, the worst riding I've seen in a long time (the guy on the track bike): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjjfa1xpSg4 -ilan You're still talking about it! AHHHHH! BTW, for anyone not up on the joke, ilan just linked to one of the more famous NY alleycat videos. I think I need a drink, -- Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/ "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls." "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them." |
#19
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Climbing: riding on the tops vs riding on the brake hoods
On 26 jul, 20:52, hizark21 wrote:
Climbing: riding on the tops vs riding on the brake hoods I have noticed that most climber since the mid 90's tend to climb seated with their hands on hoods.Personally I prefer climbing on the tops since this a more relaxed position. Climbing seated on the hoods put's more strain on my wrists. *The one advantage of the hoods is that you can brake faster. In the end I suppose it's a matter of climbing style. I am flabbergasted by all answers in this thread. The real reason: Air resistance is still a very big component (especially with current climb speeds)! It is why wheel-sucking works so well on climbs. And it is also why you better can use aero wheel than ultra light climbing wheels if you want to win. Of course; pros use ultra-light aero wheels ^^ A reason against the aero wheels is more in the descent, where handling of high carbon wheels can be spotty: Braking is compromised, esp when wet and ascents often have unexpected crosswinds wich might affected steering of a higher rimmed wheel. Also, the rougher ride might be tiring if you ride over 5-6 hours. Although I would assume pros can handle that last issue^^ For mere mortals hoods and tops is less of an issue due to our low riding speed. - Before anyone asks: This is why "A la danseuse" died: it's not aerodynamic and with the bigger rear sprockets/higher wattage pros can now reach 90+ rpm when sitting in the saddle. In the 70ies-80ies the climbing rpm was a lower, wich forced them to "dance" a lot to power the big gears. Indurain was afaik the first influential rider really changing climbing by using higher RPM's and an aero climbing style, though it was probably an evolutionary change, spurred by ergo- research. |
#20
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Climbing: riding on the tops vs riding on the brake hoods
On Jul 28, 12:16*am, Tuschinski wrote:
On 26 jul, 20:52, hizark21 wrote: Climbing: riding on the tops vs riding on the brake hoods I have noticed that most climber since the mid 90's tend to climb seated with their hands on hoods.Personally I prefer climbing on the tops since this a more relaxed position. Climbing seated on the hoods put's more strain on my wrists. *The one advantage of the hoods is that you can brake faster. In the end I suppose it's a matter of climbing style. Aero wheels are probably marginally beneficial in longer mountain stages. The Discovery team was using aero wheels on the mountain stages. I have not seen any studies to verify this however. Climbing is really more a matter of pacing than wheel sucking. I am flabbergasted by all answers in this thread. The real reason: Air resistance is still a very big component (especially with current climb speeds)! It is why wheel-sucking works so well on climbs. And it is also why you better can use aero wheel than ultra light climbing wheels if you want to win. Of course; pros use ultra-light aero wheels ^^ A reason against the aero wheels is more in the descent, where handling of high carbon wheels can be spotty: Braking is compromised, esp when wet and ascents often have unexpected crosswinds wich might affected steering of a higher rimmed wheel. Also, the rougher ride might be tiring if you ride over 5-6 hours. Although I would assume pros can handle that last issue^^ For mere mortals hoods and tops is less of an issue due to our low riding speed. - Before anyone asks: This is why "A la danseuse" died: it's not aerodynamic and with the bigger rear sprockets/higher wattage pros can now reach 90+ rpm when sitting in the saddle. In the 70ies-80ies the climbing rpm was a lower, wich forced them to "dance" a lot to power the big gears. *Indurain was afaik the first influential rider really changing climbing by using higher RPM's and an aero climbing style, though it was probably an evolutionary change, spurred by ergo- research. |
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